Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:34 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:16 pm . I also wouldn't call Ma jr and Kami speaking a weird language a foreshadow for them being aliens, especially when the series hadn't even brought up the idea of aliens.
They're speaking a weird language to each other and then revealed in the next arc to be aliens. In what world is that not foreshadowing?

It doesn't matter if the series brought up the ideas of aliens or not (disregard the fact that Oolong wondered if Goku was an alien at the end of the very first arc) aliens have been a part of fiction long before Dragon Ball was a thing.

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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:51 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:34 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:16 pm . I also wouldn't call Ma jr and Kami speaking a weird language a foreshadow for them being aliens, especially when the series hadn't even brought up the idea of aliens.
They're speaking a weird language to each other and then revealed in the next arc to be aliens. In what world is that not foreshadowing?

It doesn't matter if the series brought up the ideas of aliens or not (disregard the fact that Oolong wondered if Goku was an alien at the end of the very first arc) aliens have been a part of fiction long before Dragon Ball was a thing.
Because the world is full of different language speaking people. I don't remember there being different languages in Dragon Ball World, but there are demon folk. I remember thinking they were just speaking the language Pic D and Kami originally spoke from that origin.

Different languages doesn't immediately shout "extraterrestrial!". But you do make a very good point about the very next arc dealing with them being aliens. I would assume Toriyama knew at the point where he was going.

I just feel like foreshadowing shouldn't give you several dozen other things it could have been doing.
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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by Rafa Fast » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:41 am

I really sorry for letting you guys talking to yourselfs in this thread, I was occupied with some personal stuff and projects, and I forgot my password and only decided to recover it now, well now I'll read what everyone wrote.
Zephyr wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:44 am Super Saiyan Gohan and Perfect Cell debut a literal page apart. In hindsight, that feels to me like a conscious and deliberate foreshadowing of their eventual fight.
Perfect, thanks ^^ that's also a detail I forgot to add in the main post, I'll count it as a "hint".
Vijay wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:29 am Not everythin needs to be spelled out. Statin Goku will be fight green alien at TB or space alien at Namek kills any sorta hype or expectations
but that's exactly what I want buddy, the series always follows the pattern of the things appearing one afther the other without any advice or hint ("this villain will show up, then after that, another villain shows up, this villain has existed for much longer than the previous one but we only came up with the idea of his existence now"), it's rare when the series tries to hint or establish something way before it happens or appears, and I want to give the spotlight to these little moments as said in the post.
Goku was destined to fight Piccolo jr at TB. Stated by Popo & kami.
I vaguely remember when exactly that was said, but I bet it was way before "adult" Piccolo Jr first appearance, so I think it counts, thanks ^^
If we go earlier, Baba told as early at pre-22nd TB that Goku would save the earth. It could mean against Daimou, Piccolo Jr or both.
I already mentioned that in the post, I don't count that because as I said, it's easy to say that a certain character will do X stuff, accomplish X something without saying a name or giving details of the action, he could save the Earth from anything else, not necessarily a villain, could be against a Meteor, extinction, natural reasons, so no, Baba's line is way too vague.
Kaoi said by defeatin Vegeta doesnt mean root of evil is gone...suggestin Frieza is out there
coola wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:18 pm Kaio mentioned, that killing Vegeta won't get rid of "true evil" :)
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:21 pm Actually the Saiyan arc does forshadow Frieza, with King Kai mentioning "the root of this evil" right after Vegeta is defeated.
Okay maybe I looked at this one too superficially, indeed, "roots of evil" can refer to a "Leader of the Saiyans", in that scenario only Freeza would make sense, so yeah, thanks ^^
It also reveals Piccolo and Kami to be Namekian, and several characters mention the idea of going to Namek later.
I already mentioned this one in the post.
Krillin's 1st death is forshadowed perfectly right before it happens, with Goku knowing something is off. That scene is so ominous and forboding.
Well, I already mentioned that in the post too, but I only talked about the 22th TB not making foreshadowings for Piccolo, indeed Kuririn not returning in time makes us feel that something's wrong, that he's dead or at least in danger, thanks ^^
Cell's appearance is forshadowed by Kami's sense of unease.
Can't remember of this one very well, I'll need to check it, thanks.
Goku's death is sort of forshadowed, with him going out of his way to spend time with his family prior to the Cell Games, and even him saying to Krillin that these times are important.
That actually made me immediately remember of the scene that is a perfect hint, right before Goku goes to the arena, with Chichi asking him to not die (I think it's anime only) thanks ^^
Vegeta going Majin is forshadowed by Supreme Kai's line about Babidi's powers to enslave those with evil in them, and again by Vegeta's attitude throughout their time on the ship.
I guess this one just wouldn't work if Vegeta small snippet of "evil" wasn't explored in that moment, but yeah just because of that I'll count it, thnaks ^^
GT forshadows SS4 during Goku's first fight with Baby. The camera keeps focusing on a strange yellow glow in his eyes while he's getting beat down.
Great, Thanks ^^ (It's pretty weird for me actually as my GT collection in original JP audio have the opening with SSJ4 debuting earlier in the series, but I guess that doesn't happen in the original)
Also the Shadow Dragons are repeatedly forshadowed during the Super 17 arc, with the Dragon Balls shown to be cracked, Piccolo sensing a strange force working against them, and the natural disasters that occur towards the end. Even the Baby arc ended with a closeup of a Dragon Ball, so the idea must have been conceived pretty far far back. This forshadowing is all really well done, and is a nice redeeming quality for GT.
Well, while the shadow dragons themselves aren't exactly foreshadowed, I'll count this one because it perfectly works as the "It exists, but we can't show or describe it until the right time comes", it hints that a new menace will come up without anyone saying or showing something, so yeah this one is really works, thanks ^^
jjgp1112 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:33 pm Piccolo and Kami's alien heritage, even confirmed by Toriyama. He had them communicate in an alien language because he'd already gotten the idea and wanted to plant the seeds early.
I already mentioned that in the post.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:39 pm I had figured that Piccolo and Kami's (Shen's) conversation in their match at the 23rd TB which was revealed to later have been the Namekian language by Bulma when repairing the latter's ship was Toriyama more or less setting up the eventual reveal of Planet Namek and it's people therein, and the anime only compounds this point further by having the sky turn green and the symbols which pop up (in the Japanese version, the FUNi dub just had them speaking in modulated/filtered voices without the actual language itself) as the two are speaking with nobody else there able to understand what they're saying. Plus of course the reveal that Kami is in fact an alien from another world. So, we can gather by the 23rd Budokai that Toriyama had the idea in his head as he was planning for what would become the Z portion of the manga.
I already mentioned about the 23th TB foreshadowing Namek stuff, but damn I completely forgot about the detail in the sky in the anime, the trees and grass even seem to be blue in that scene, thanks! (And some the symbols even have a small resemblance to the orange piccolo pride symbol)
SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:54 am Goku Black's real identity was heavily foreshadowed throughout the arc. His dialogue made it clear that he was neither a Saiyan nor a mortal, as he referred to them as a separate groups and didn't include himself in them. He once told Trunks that he had watched the universes from a higher perspective; we know since DBZ that Supreme Kais possess magical crystal devices that allow them to see planets from above. And ofc he had a Time Ring, Gowasu stated clearly that only Supreme Kais could use them. Finally, he often referred to his body as "this body", not "my body", which always implied that, whatever Black was, the body he was using wasn't his original form. All things considered, the writers did a fantastic job at foreshadowing Goku's Black's real identity as an alternate Zamasu in Goku's body.

The resolution of the arc was also foreshadowed heavily in ep.55, where Goku was given the Zeno button, a button that allowed him to summon Zeno whenever he wanted. Goku promising Zeno that he'll get him a friend is foreshadowing for Future Zeno coming to the Present timeline.

Lastly, Infinite Zamasu was heavily foreshadowed during Fused Zamasu's debut, when he said "My form is justice and my form is the world". As Gowasu explains, Infinite Zamasu is Zamasu's spirit trying to become part of the very fabric of the world and becoming the very manifestation of justice.
Damn It has been almost a whole year that I don't revisit the Black arc that I completely forgot about all of this, I think all of them works perfectly, awesome, thanks ^^!
I guess that Toppo repeatedly being praised as an Hakaishin apprentice is foreshadowing for his eventual transformation. And the appearance of Sidra's Hakai orb against Frieza is foreshadowing for Toppo's future abilities.
The Hakaishin orb shows up very earlier actually (or maybe if you're only talking about the bigger variation, yeah I think it doesn't show up before), but yeah that one counts too, thanks again ^^
TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:36 am The story has been telling us about Gohan since the very beginning, but nobody wanted to listen. Gohan said he wanted to be a great scholar, there was mention that he was a lot different than Goku, he was afraid to fight, he was forced to fight against his will, he wanted to be a normal person doing normal things (like going to high school), and he never once showed any interest in being the strongest. But... people complain that he turned out exactly how he was presented from day one.

Chi-Chi was foreshadowed to marry Goku. Though, it did kind of seem forced and tacked on. "Oh, well, I guess we're getting married now"

Vegeta was foreshadowed to always be in competition with Goku from the moment they fought.

Piccolo was foreshadowed to be a protagonist just based on how different he was from Piccolo Daimaō.

I don't know if any of this counts, to be honest.
I already mentioned a bit about Gohan in the post, but you gave a lot more of details, so thanks a lot, and for the other stuff too ^^
Only the one about Piccolo doesn't count, at least not from the start, I think that one is more based on the viewer's personal look, if we go from arc to arc, the 23th TB for example, their intentions with Piccolo jr were totally focused on making him look like a villain, I think it works if we consider it starting from we trains Gohan, where Gohan says that he's a good guy, or lately, Kami stating that he changed, but again, that was a gradual thing that the majority of the viewers could notice and follow, not necessarily a foreshadowing.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:41 pm In most cases, it feels more like Chekhov's Gun situations at play rather than genuine foreshadowing, though I guess there isn't a huge difference. Piccolo and Kami being aliens was definitely foreshadowing, but stuff like Gohan's potential was vague enough that it could be applied to any point in the story where he steps up to fight.

The anime staff tended to include more foreshadowing when there originally was none, like Goku getting a random premonition about Kuririn's death, probably cause the writers at Toei were more, uh, "conventional" storytellers than Toriyama.

Modern Dragon Ball material has had much more prior planning, so I'm more willing to consider examples like Whis's time-rewinding powers, Zamasu's identity and Zeno's interest in a second (and maybe third) inter-universe tournament as genuine foreshadowing.
Another moment during the Saiyan arc is Kuririn mentioning that he has an idea of how to resurrect everyone without Piccolo/Kami, which sets the events of the following arc into motion.
Well, sorry, I'm not american so I don't know much of the terms that you guys use, and also due to english not being my native language, I can may not use the right words to describe what I want to, I consider things as Gohan's potential as a genuine foreshadowing because for me it works just as Zarbon stating that Freeza can transform, both could use their abilities at any time, I guess? SK25 already mentioned the Zamasu thing, but yeah, Kuririn's line, the Whis time stuff and Zeno talking about "ToP" definitely counts, thanks ^^
Xeogran wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:58 pm This is out of universe, but ever since I saw this cup noodle art of DBS Goku and Vegeta doing the Fusion Dance, I had the feeling that Gogeta would appear in Super. And woo behold, a few years later he did! Could be a coincidence, or maybe someone at Toei was planning for his inclusion ever since then. Who knows!

Image
"DBS" specifically, right? If so, then due to their clothing, this image must be from October or November 2015 at least, well, I think DBS Broly development started much after that, I don't Toriyama ever thought of Gogeta at that point, but yeah, since there's the huge chance that this could be a coincidence and that the guys behind the art just decided to put the two doing the fusion dance because they thought it would look cool, I'll consider it as a accidental/unintentional foreshadowing, maybe I could consider this a true foreshadowing if a image like this was made in between after the anime's conclusion and the confirmation that Gogeta would appear in DBS Broly, thanks btw ^^
ABED wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:08 pm Isn't there a difference between foreshadowing and a set up?
There's? Well yeah as I said I'm not aware of the american terms, my english isn't all good so I used the best words I knew of to talk about it, well for a better understanding then, can i say "anything other than just someone saying very obviously that something is going to happen or exist without giving any details"?, don't know, thanks btw.
goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:28 pm One is necessary (Set up) while the other isnt (foreshadowing).

I'd say Piccolo's death in the Saiyan was a set up for them to travel through space and discover more about his alien race while Kaio's statement about their being a true evil besides Vegeta at the end of the arc was a slight foreshadowing to Freeza.
I think that's the easier conclusion to reach, that's why I discounted Kaio's line for the first moment, thanks.
GokuHater wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:31 am That's not entirely true.
Sg Metallic scene is an anime only and I believe the explanation was that the 'alien' word meant alien to him, as in life force vs a robot.
No mention of any alien in the manga.

While Ulong did say that in the first arc it was less foreshadowing and more of his genuine disbelief "what is he, an alien?" and given this was almost entirely after first Oozaru, it's understandable.

Foreshadowing Goku being an alien is more possible in Piccolo Daimao arc, where they have such conversation.
-How? No human could have survived it!!!
-Heh heh, maybe I'm not a human. I do have a tail after all...
I agree with this one, I really see Oolong's line as being a joke, without Toriyama really taking that seriously, like a random character saying something like "You're a Monster?", it was still the very beginning of the series, that has to be just a coencidence based on reaction, or as I said before (and ABED too), accidental/unintentional foreshadowing. Also thanks for the example ^^
ABED wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:37 am I would consider Oolong's line unintentional foreshadowing. Toriyama likely didn't know about Goku's alien origin at that point but the implication is clearly that Goku is unique and no one knows where he's from and why he was able to turn into a were-monkey. Foreshadowing doesn't have to be intentional to fall into that category. That said, I think this thread is asking for examples of intentional foreshadowing.

Metallic's line falls into a similar category. Yes, he's saying he's alien/foreign to him, but his statement is more accurate in ways neither of them know yet.
Agreed, and yeah, the purpose here is to talk about the intentional ones, as for the Metallic thing, I really have no idea...
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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by Desassina » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:50 am

How about Dende becoming the Guardian of Earth in Dragon Ball Z Movie 6 before the manga event was published and/or conceived?

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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by DanielSSJ » Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:07 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:51 pm Because the world is full of different language speaking people. I don't remember there being different languages in Dragon Ball World, but there are demon folk. I remember thinking they were just speaking the language Pic D and Kami originally spoke from that origin.

Different languages doesn't immediately shout "extraterrestrial!". But you do make a very good point about the very next arc dealing with them being aliens. I would assume Toriyama knew at the point where he was going.

I just feel like foreshadowing shouldn't give you several dozen other things it could have been doing.
The thing that makes it foreshadowing is that it was confirmed by Toriyama that he had already decided that Piccolo and God were to be aliens by the time that God himself entered the story.
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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by Rafa Fast » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:09 am

Desassina wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:50 am How about Dende becoming the Guardian of Earth in Dragon Ball Z Movie 6 before the manga event was published and/or conceived?
Well about that....uh...eeeh...uhhh, I really have no idea how to determine what is that, maybe a out of universe case or what? I really don't know if there's a term for it or something, but "non-canon" material till this day still makes stuff happen before the main storyline does, Movie 4 debuted the SSJ before the manga as well (even if it wasn't the correct visual), the same movie also implies that Freeza was defeated, that happens because almost all of the Z movies are meant to be post-arc scenarios that happens before the specific arc that is still on run achieves its conclusion, there's also the cases where "non-canon" stuff introduces a concept that would be used in the main story later, a example is Gogeta vs Broly in the openings of Budokai 3 & BT3, it's obvious that they didn't tend to foreshadow a future movie.
So the Dende case, or Toriyama gave the guys on Toei a advice, or they really thought on that before him, then Tori used their idea, but I think it was the first, Dende was hinted as being a sucessor for Kami since Freeza arc.
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Re: Times that the series did genuine foreshadowing?

Post by XenoSaiyan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:46 am

Piccolo and Kami's alien heritage the King Piccolo saga.

Vegeta turning Majin since Shin arrives.

The identity of Goku Black since Zamasu's first appearance.

The existence of Freeza and his empire in the Saiyan saga.

The Super Saiyan concept since the start of the Namek arc.

Gohan being the one to beat Cell since he and Goku entered the Rosat.

The Shadow Dragons throughout all of GT.

None of this was made up on the fly.

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