So I rewatched the Pioneer Ocean movie trilogy

[90sDBZ]

I recently rewatched it for the first time in a few years, and it really does hold up incredibly well. Peter Kelamis in particular nails Goku in these movies, and Scott McNeil is also great as Piccolo. I've normally gravitated more to the US cast, but for these movies the Vancouver cast knocked it out the park.

It was actually these movies that made me appreciate Peter's Goku. As a kid I wasn't a fan of his Goku, because he sounded different to Ian, Sean, and Kirby's more straight heroic takes, and the rushed handling of the Westwood dub didn't help.

But hearing his performance in these movies years later made me see his Goku in a different light. He screams like Nozawa, captures Goku's innocence and goofiness, and still sounds badass in the more serious scenes.

Also I'm still surprised how much effort went into the DVDs themselves considering their age. The covers are all cool, and they all have a ton of extras on the discs. The World's Strongest DVD has clips from several of Goku's fights from the Saban dub, which is always fun to revisit. It also has brief clips from all the single releases. It's actually amazing they had all this on one DVD disc in 1998. You can tell Pioneer cared.

[ABED]

This is the only time I feel like Kelamis does a good job. I gotta think it comes down to the writing and the director telling Kelamis to rein it in. I still maintain that he has an impressive scream but he's not remotely Nozawa like. The cadence and delivery doesn't work for me. Some have called it a "surfer accent". I don't think that's right, but whatever it is always bothers me, but less so here.

Good direction and a good script helps A LOT.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Funny enough I introduced a friend who didn't grow up with Dragon Ball to the series recently with the Pioneer movie trilogy, I suggested that because he's heard me talk about how great the Canadian cast were. Fortunately he loved it, and I was filling him in on all the Dragon Ball lore while we were watching, he was very intrigued and wanted to learn more, so I say he'll be checking out more of the series soon.

I have nothing but respect for the Funimation cast, but the Ocean cast blow them out of the water in the Pioneer trilogy. I point people to the Pioneer movies whenever they doubt the Ocean cast because those dubs really show what that cast can do when they are not confined to the limitations of recording a dub for kids TV. In comparison the performances in the Pioneer dubs are wonderful, the Kikuchi score fits like a glove, the scripts are incredibly accurate and seemingly written with the actor's performances in mind, so they come off very naturally, the best example is this line from Piccolo, as performed by Scott McNeil:

"When I'm finished with you, Garlic, you'll wish you were dead -- you'll be helpless! Try to imagine how it'll feel to live unable to do anything with all that power you possess... Then you'll know what hell is really like."

Peter Kelamis in these movies is also the best a Canadian Goku has ever sounded, movie 2 in particular are the highlight for his screams alone. Even if I hadn't known what Masako Nozawa sounded like I would still be blown away by them, like just...
wow.

[TheGreatness25]

I like the Ocean cast more than Funimation's pretty much across the board. There's nothing wrong with Funimation dub and if that's all that we ever had, I'd be okay... But, since we do have an Ocean dub, that's my preferred Dragon Ball experience.

With that said, I have a bit of an unpopular opinion: I kind of like the TV version of "Tree of Might" more than the uncut. I just really like Corlett and while a bit much, I think that his heroic lines are great (not to mention that he delivers them well).

Just the way he delivered "I won't let the Earth be destroyed!" and "You planted this tree on our land? Well, it's gotta go!" was just kind of burned into my memory. I just always thought he was a great Goku. Weak on the screams, but what can you do?

I have come to like Kelamis's Goku, but it's still a bit grating to me. I can see how people think that he sounds like if Nozawa's Goku was adapted into English, but I still think I like Corlett's performance the most because I think he has the most natural delivery. Kirby Morrow also had a great, natural delivery.

Anyway, I have been trying to do this comparison between Ocean and Funimation and then against the Japanese version basically for years and can't seem to get around to it.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I just always thought he was a great Goku. Weak on the screams, but what can you do?

The weak screams may have not even been Ian Corlett's fault, he has expressed his dissatisfaction with not being paid for the screams, to the extent he said in one interview he could earn more by washing windows. Corlett's issues with the pay caused many conflicts between himself and the producers, and in the years that followed his departure there were some union changes, which I think allowed screams to be paid for. Honestly I can't blame Corlett, screams are very strenuous on the vocal chords, actors should absolutely be paid for them.

It's worth noting these movies, although owned ultimately by Funimation were not directly produced by them. Pioneer acquired the sublicense from Funimation to create dubs of the movies for the home video market, and because they were a more established company operating a few years before Funimation started up they likely had a larger budget than Funimation had for its own inhouse movies.

[TheGreatness25]

I just always thought he was a great Goku. Weak on the screams, but what can you do?

The weak screams may have not even been Ian Corlett's fault, he has expressed his dissatisfaction with not being paid for the screams, to the extent he said in one interview he could earn more by washing windows. Corlett's issues with the pay caused many conflicts between himself and the producers, and in the years that followed his departure there were some union changes, which I think allowed screams to be paid for. Honestly I can't blame Corlett, screams are very strenuous on the vocal chords, actors should absolutely be paid for them.

It's worth noting these movies, although owned ultimately by Funimation were not directly produced by them. Pioneer acquired the sublicense from Funimation to create dubs of the movies for the home video market, and because they were a more established company operating a few years before Funimation started up they likely had a larger budget than Funimation had for its own inhouse movies.

Oh, I know the story over the pay issues. I've also heard him say that he purposely didn't commit 100% to preserve his voice. But regardless, he was the least screamer Goku, and I'm fine with that.

I'm guessing that despite Pioneer having production rights, Funimation still directed the cast and wrote the script, which is amazing seeing as they haven't been as faithful to the original before or after these movies.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'm guessing that despite Pioneer having production rights, Funimation still directed the cast and wrote the script, which is amazing seeing as they haven't been as faithful to the original before or after these movies.

No, the Pioneer movies were directed by Karl Willems, a highly respected voice director at Ocean, and the scripts were written by Ward Perry. All due respect to Funimation but Ocean have always had better writers, Blue Water GT's scripts were based on original translations of the Japanese version, and for original Dragon Ball they referenced Funimation's dub but revised the dialogue to be more faithful, which I could go into, but I won't because this thread is about the Pioneer dubs.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm guessing that despite Pioneer having production rights, Funimation still directed the cast and wrote the script, which is amazing seeing as they haven't been as faithful to the original before or after these movies.

No, the Pioneer movies were directed by Karl Willems, a highly respected voice director at Ocean, and the scripts were written by Ward Perry. All due respect to Funimation but Ocean have always had better writers, Blue Water GT's scripts were based on original translations of the Japanese version, and for original Dragon Ball they referenced Funimation's dub but revised the dialogue to be more faithful, which I could go into, but I won't because this thread is about the Pioneer dubs.

So, I have a deep fascination over this stuff and it makes a lot more sense as to why these movies stand out so much!

Thank you!

[90sDBZ]

I have nothing but respect for the Funimation cast, but the Ocean cast blow them out of the water in the Pioneer trilogy.

I actually tried rewatching the redub of Dead Zone after for comparison, but ended up switching it off. The cast give decent enough performances, but the Menza score in that movie is awful, worse than in GT even.

The Movie 1 Menza score is literally just random noise droning on throughout the whole movie, to the point were it becomes unwatchable. I know many say the same about Faulconer, which I disagree with, but the Menza score here feels like it's just there to be background noise.

Next time I watch the redub it'll definitely be with kikuchi.

With that said, I have a bit of an unpopular opinion: I kind of like the TV version of "Tree of Might" more than the uncut. I just really like Corlett and while a bit much, I think that his heroic lines are great (not to mention that he delivers them well).

Just the way he delivered "I won't let the Earth be destroyed!" and "You planted this tree on our land? Well, it's gotta go!" was just kind of burned into my memory. I just always thought he was a great Goku. Weak on the screams, but what can you do?

I can see where you're coming from. I love Corlett's Goku too, and the Wasserman score fits the movie well. And yeah that line is awesome.

It's hard for me to decide which version I like more. The uncut version is more accurate, Peter nails Goku, and Kikuchi's score is great. But Ian also nails Goku, the replacement score is great, and some of the innacurate lines just sound cool. Ian's heroic Goku really works here, with lines like "A man's true strength comes from the world! I won't let you take ours away for your own greed!".

On a sidenote I've always loved how the early Ocean dubs used an echo filter during the screams. It just enhances the big moments, and somewhat makes up for Ian's lack of screaming.

[AlexSketchy04]

I'm guessing that despite Pioneer having production rights, Funimation still directed the cast and wrote the script, which is amazing seeing as they haven't been as faithful to the original before or after these movies.

All due respect to Funimation but Ocean have always had better writers.

The Funimation writers and the Ocean writers were mostly the same, even during the switch in season 3

[TheGreatness25]

I'm guessing that despite Pioneer having production rights, Funimation still directed the cast and wrote the script, which is amazing seeing as they haven't been as faithful to the original before or after these movies.

All due respect to Funimation but Ocean have always had better writers.

The Funimation writers and the Ocean writers were mostly the same, even during the switch in season 3

This isn't the entire quote. Dragon Ball Ireland explained that the Pioneer movies had a different director and then after that quote elaborated about Blue Water having the superior scripts. The Blue Water dubs did not share the same scripts as their Funimation counterparts (like the rest of the Ocean Z dub did).

[MasenkoHA]

[
tried rewatching the redub of Dead Zone after for comparison, but ended up switching it off. The cast give decent enough performances, but the Menza score in that movie is awful, worse than in GT even.

The Movie 1 Menza score is literally just random noise droning on throughout the whole movie, to the point were it becomes unwatchable. I know many say the same about Faulconer, which I disagree with, but the Menza score here feels like it's just there to be background noise.

Next time I watch the redub it'll definitely be with kikuchi.

I actually ended up rewatching the redub a few days ago with the Kikuchi score. With the Japanese music intact the Dead Zone redub ends up being one of the better pre-Kai efforts for the in-house Funimation dub; the cast does a passable job and the script is fairly accurate -because I'm pretty sure they mostly stuck to the Ocean script anyways. The only part that really bugged me is Tenkaichi Gohan being instrumental only makes that whole sequence feel off. Even without knowing a vocal song was suppose to be there you can tell something isn't right, like you're watching an unfinished scene. I get that Funimation has to work with what they were given by Toei but I'm not sure what stopped them from having Stephanie Nadolny or somebody record an English version of the song in its place.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

[
tried rewatching the redub of Dead Zone after for comparison, but ended up switching it off. The cast give decent enough performances, but the Menza score in that movie is awful, worse than in GT even.

The Movie 1 Menza score is literally just random noise droning on throughout the whole movie, to the point were it becomes unwatchable. I know many say the same about Faulconer, which I disagree with, but the Menza score here feels like it's just there to be background noise.

Next time I watch the redub it'll definitely be with kikuchi.

I actually ended up rewatching the redub a few days ago with the Kikuchi score. With the Japanese music intact the Dead Zone redub ends up being one of the better pre-Kai efforts for the in-house Funimation dub; the cast does a passable job and the script is fairly accurate -because I'm pretty sure they mostly stuck to the Ocean script anyways. The only part that really bugged me is Tenkaichi Gohan being instrumental only makes that whole sequence feel off. Even without knowing a vocal song was suppose to be there you can tell something isn't right, like you're watching an unfinished scene. I get that Funimation has to work with what they were given by Toei but I'm not sure what stopped them from having Stephanie Nadolny or somebody record an English version of the song in its place.

it's odd how they were able to release a dub of the movie back in 1997 which kept the song intact, then around a decade later a redubbed version with the original JPN score comes out where it's only an instrumental version and the same with I Love Piccolo-San/Piccolo-san Dai Suki in World's Strongest.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I actually ended up rewatching the redub a few days ago with the Kikuchi score. With the Japanese music intact the Dead Zone redub ends up being one of the better pre-Kai efforts for the in-house Funimation dub; the cast does a passable job and the script is fairly accurate -because I'm pretty sure they mostly stuck to the Ocean script anyways.

The redub referenced the Pioneer version a lot, it had Funimation's usual "punching things up" approach but most of that would be nitpicking, like the no shit Sherlock moment with Gohan eating an apple saying it "tastes like apples" rather than calling it "yummy", its otherwise quite accurate, even if a step down. I think the most glaring thing about the redub is the irony of it being called the "Ultimate Uncut" version when Funimation censors all references to Hell.