Grimlock wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:58 pm
Civic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:40 amThe point is - the change just happens. If Goku saw some Jiren/Broly/etc. level strength and went 'eh, I've fought strong guys before. Maybe later.' and it hadn't been shown or explained how he went about such a heel-turn, would you be OK with that too?
Guess I should have seen this kind of comparison coming... I will try to keep it brief: It's in Saiyans nature to search and long for fights against strong/stronger opponents. It's not in Saiyans nature to hate fusions. That's got more to do with one's personality, some won't like it, some won't be bothered by it. But personality changes.
Yes that's true, that was a bad example. I think I got my point across though - in my view, it was a big change without much explanation.
If I'm not misremembering stuff, there is a line in which Vegeta says something like "I'm an Earthling with Saiyan's pride", which one can only imagine where his acceptance and suggestion of fusion comes from. He even started calling himself an "Earthling". Wouldn't that help to believe he changed?
Yes that helps paint the picture a little. However for me I would've wanted to see this a little more in action. Vegeta's change from the Saiyan saga to the end of the Buu saga is very well fleshed out. Perhaps I'm expecting a bit much from GT, but I would've liked to see more incremental changes, or just some times/examples that pushed him to the way we see him. "Show, don't tell" as the old writing adage goes.
I would agree but we (?) seem to live quite "well" (?) with all the decisions this franchise has made to make a lot of stuff off-screen. Pretty sure we can live well with a Vegeta's natural and expected change being one of those too.
Yes even DBZ pulled this - it's pretty much left up to the imagination how and why Vegeta and Bulma shack up and make Trunks. I'm not saying that there's no evidence for GT Vegeta's domestication, just that it's largely the audience having to connect the dots. EoZ Vegeta is one way, GT Vegeta is another, without much to join the change together. But yes, a reasonable person can see and understand it. I just don't think it's very good or very well done, and I think DBS's take on EoZ Vegeta is much better.
Vegeta wrote:Kakaroto. I know I put up a little show when you proposed to fuse in the past, but that was years and years ago. Sixteen, to be precise. Ever since then, I naturally got older. I continued to spend a lot of time on Earth. I continued to train to protect my family, so that my Bulma and Trunks would never have to die again. I learned how to drive so I can take Bra to the shopping mall. I have come to realize there's more to life than being a slave to my own past, I don't want to feel in shackles by my Saiyan pride. Now I'm an Earthling with a Saiyan's pride. Kakaroto, all I'm saying is... Fuse with me!
Is this quote in GT? I don't remember it (I have only watched it through once) and I just had a quick re-watch of the part where Vegeta suggests fusion and I don't hear this in there at all.