Colorism in Dragon Ball

[ATA]

Howdy,

For those who don't know:
Colorism is prejudice or discrimination against individuals with a dark skin tone, typically among people of the same ethnic or racial group.

Something I noticed with Turles and Goku Black is they're supposed to be evil versions of Goku. To showcase they're evil Toriyama, Toei, and the Dragon Ball staff made Turles and Black's skin darker. Along with giving them darker clothing. Maybe I'm reaching with this statement but this would not be the first time I've seen this occur. Disney Movies, Disney Games(Kingdom Hearts especially), and other anime series tend to make the villains have darker skin tones to show that they're not the good guys.

Disclaimer:
I'm not being Woke. I'm not offended by Turles or Goku Black's Skin complexion. Colorism and Racism are not the same thing. I'm just creating a discussion on something I noticed in multiple cartoons, video games, and media in general.

[jjbgood]

So, GT Goku must be evil

[SupremeKai25]

The writers wanted to highlight the fact that Black isn't actually Goku, or a Saiyan at all, and they did so through various visual cues. Dark tone is not the only one. He also has an overall skinnier/leaner physique than Goku, he has more defined eye with darker eyeline (like Zamasu himself), and his hair is also noticeably different (it has darker shades and is less spiky). All these design choices combine with the function to show that there's something sinister going on, that Black isn't really who he appears to be.

Black isn't an evil version of Goku, and this is the crucial point and the source of your misunderstanding. He is not an alternate Goku who took a dark path. He's not even Goku in the first place. He's like Ginyu, no one says "Ginyu is an evil version of Goku". They're not even the same person.

And so, when he was given darker skin tone, the intention of the writers wasn't to show that he is "Goku, but evil"; rather, they wanted to show that he's not even Goku in the first place. They gave him a slightly different skin tone than normal Goku because the audience (You) is supposed to think "wait, something's wrong with this guy, he doesn't have the exact same skin tone as the Goku we know".

As for his clothes, he looks perfect in them, so I don't see the problem. Symbolically, Black has many elements that denote his status as a sort of "Grim Reaper". He wants to kill all living humans and he literally gets a scythe later on. It's a natural design decision to give him dark-coloured clothes. Dark colours is what you associated with the Grim Reaper, and Black literally just wanted to kill as many humans as possible.

[chitsunameru]

my good sir i do believe you are reaching far too far with this. turles was toei wanting to show he wasnt truly goku.

goku black just used zamasu's color scheme

[GokuHater]

I can't believe we are literally discussing the meaning behind Goku's Black skin colour as being possibly racist when his name is actually Goku BLACK

[VegettoEX]

For those of you who aren't interested in the topic, perhaps consider not posting in the topic...?

Don't let them dissuade you, topic creator. Continue to ask questions and ask for (well-intentioned, constructive, engaged) feedback.

[Cursed Lemon]

Darkness, and therefore the color black, as a negative is more or less universally understood because of the fear of not knowing what's out there. The ambiguous interplay between the aesthetic significance of the color black and darker skin tones is probably something only a panel of anthropologists and psychologists could adequately comment on, IMHOtep, but black people can be scared of the dark too.

For what it's worth, I think a "dark" version of a character would have to be coded in much more detail before it starts activating the racist parts of peoples' dumb animal brains.

You could ask the same question of "why do evil characters have red eyes".

[nineko]

I mean, it's not like Goku Black is the first darker version of a character, Yami Yugi anyone? Or the Black Saints from Saint Seiya. Animes and mangas are literally littered with such cases. Also, while slightly unrelated, the main antagonist in the Rayman videogame is Mr. Dark.

[ATA]

The writers wanted to highlight the fact that Black isn't actually Goku, or a Saiyan at all, and they did so through various visual cues. Dark tone is not the only one.

Black isn't an evil version of Goku, and this is the crucial point and the source of your misunderstanding.
And so, when he was given darker skin tone, the intention of the writers wasn't to show that he is "Goku, but evil"; rather, they wanted to show that he's not even Goku in the first place. They gave him a slightly different skin tone than normal Goku because the audience (You) is supposed to think "wait, something's wrong with this guy, he doesn't have the exact same skin tone as the Goku we know".

As for his clothes, he looks perfect in them, so I don't see the problem. Symbolically, Black has many elements that denote his status as a sort of "Grim Reaper". He wants to kill all living humans and he literally gets a scythe later on. It's a natural design decision to give him dark-coloured clothes. Dark colours is what you associated with the Grim Reaper, and Black literally just wanted to kill as many humans as possible.

I want to clairfy that I'm well aware that calling Goku Black an "Evil Goku" is surface level character description. Especially when Vegeta said "You will never be Kakarot" or something of that nature. But at first glance Turles and Goku Black are "Evil Gokus". In the same sense Roxas and Ventus from Kingdom Hearts are two different characters but Ventus is still a "clone" of Roxas(In-Universe reason is different). Keep in mind I think Goku Black's design is good. The reason I brought colorism into this is because other companies have done this in the past. Disney is well known for doing this. Memna Uzumaki is another one. Hell in many tv shows, when the main goody-two shoes get taken over or get an "Evil" counterpart the outcome is usually making the character's skin darker. The anime version of Evil Boo also had dark skin as well.
https://anatomyofevil.wordpress.com/201 ... -villains/

my good sir i do believe you are reaching far too far with this. turles was toei wanting to show he wasnt truly goku.

goku black just used zamasu's color scheme

Designing Turles and Goku Black was essentially an Evil Goku. Colorism typically use darker skin tones to showcase evil, dangerous, etc. I think the math is mathing.

I can't believe we are literally discussing the meaning behind Goku's Black skin colour as being possibly racist when his name is actually Goku BLACK

Colorism and Racism are TWO different things woe. Do they intertwine? Yes but I'm talking about colorism not racism.
https://time.com/4512430/colorism-in-america/

Darkness, and therefore the color black, as a negative is more or less universally understood because of the fear of not knowing what's out there. The ambiguous interplay between the aesthetic significance of the color black and darker skin tones is probably something only a panel of anthropologists and psychologists could adequately comment on, IMHOtep, but black people can be scared of the dark too.

For what it's worth, I think a "dark" version of a character would have to be coded in much more detail before it starts activating the racist parts of peoples' dumb animal brains.

You could ask the same question of "why do evil characters have red eyes".

Why are you calling me a Hotep? That's not cool. As I told the above user, colorism and racism are different. Also why mention and single out Black people? Multiple races and ethnicities deal with colorism. It's not exclusive to Black people. Also it's important to know Black people aren't the only race with darker skin. So once again why single out Black people?

I mean, it's not like Goku Black is the first darker version of a character, Yami Yugi anyone? Or the Black Saints from Saint Seiya. Animes and mangas are literally littered with such cases. Also, while slightly unrelated, the main antagonist in the Rayman videogame is Mr. Dark.

Just because Goku Black isn't the first does not make it right or okay.
https://asaloneasyoucanbe.wordpress.com ... dark-skin/

For those of you who aren't interested in the topic, perhaps consider not posting in the topic...?

Don't let them dissuade you, topic creator. Continue to ask questions and ask for (well-intentioned, constructive, engaged) feedback.

Thanks. I added a disclaimer in the original post.

[DiloVortexx]

huh, interesting topic : O and yea, you do bring up a good point abt this bc i noticed this as well

like quite a few villains in dragon ball have darker skin which i dont have a problem with MOST of the time if they're not being weird abt it (tho ofc i prefer characters w/ darker skin tones to be more protagonists than antagonists most of the time.. i hope what i'm saying makes sense djsdhfjdhg) but yea.. it kinda feels odd when you think more about it considering most characters who are protagonists have much lighter skin tones and then a lot of villains have darker tones.. like um??? whats wrong with having protags with darker skin? (we know the answer is theres nothing wrong with that ofc but some ppl dont get that i guess?? + this also feels a bit odd too considering gt gokû and some official art by toriyama depicts gokû w/ a darker skin tone than usual which btw love those depictions)

i'm not upset abt it btw its just something that i have noticed for a while and it really does make you think... the fact that the characters in this series who are poc are usually treated not the best either (either become extremely minor characters/sidelined, get killed off or end up being mocked) is.. yeah.. its not too good of an outlook for the franchise when you realize these things abt it???

sucks how i gotta be so critical of a series i love cuz its got some uh oh things in it but i mean its better than being blind to the shitty parts of it and not talking abt it at all
which is why i'm glad there are discussions on the forum abt darker and serious topics like this that are like "yeah theres some aspects to dragon ball that are not so great watch out for that" its just refreshing talking abt more serious things for once sdfhdfjsdkfj

[ClutchBangstrip]

I definitely think this exists in anime and manga in general. A lot less now, but definitely back in the day.

I do think Goku Black does make sense. He has 'Black' in his name, his personality is dark, and he wears black. Hell, even his aura is black, sometimes. Slightly darker skin adds to the theme and works well, imo.

To be honest, I think the darkness is "cool" more than it is evil. And if you notice, the darker characters are all cool. Like Bardock or Broly. Even King Piccolo is darker than Jr and... cooler. Even Freeza goes Black and Vegeta's skin gets darker with Ego. I definitely remember the internet going nuts for those forms, too. Darker just seems "cooler". It's the Go To option to signify "swag".

[fleahop]

I definitely think this exists in anime and manga in general. A lot less now, but definitely back in the day.

I do think Goku Black does make sense. He has 'Black' in his name, his personality is dark, and he wears black. Hell, even his aura is black, sometimes. Slightly darker skin adds to the theme and works well, imo.
...

I think OP is bringing up a great point about colorism and I'm glad this is being discussed.

As a response to Goku Black being darker because his name is "Black" and claiming that it fits the theme, I'd like to pose a question. Why even choose "Black" as part of the name to begin with?

It feels like it's a very basic way to reflect a character's identity that relies solely on implicit biases based on the most basic, commonly accepted societal standards. I believe it's lazy, and Dragon Ball never relied on such things for its serious villains in the past.

"Black" does not equal "Bad" and while that is obvious the laziness of the writing and designs recently would teach small children otherwise. Frieza Black is also concerning.

[ClutchBangstrip]

I definitely think this exists in anime and manga in general. A lot less now, but definitely back in the day.

I do think Goku Black does make sense. He has 'Black' in his name, his personality is dark, and he wears black. Hell, even his aura is black, sometimes. Slightly darker skin adds to the theme and works well, imo.
...

I think OP is bringing up a great point about colorism and I'm glad this is being discussed.

As a response to Goku Black being darker because his name is "Black" and claiming that it fits the theme, I'd like to pose a question. Why even choose "Black" as part of the name to begin with?

It feels like it's a very basic way to reflect a character's identity that relies solely on implicit biases based on the most basic, commonly accepted societal standards. I believe it's lazy, and Dragon Ball never relied on such things for its serious villains in the past.

"Black" does not equal "Bad" and while that is obvious the laziness of the writing and designs recently would teach small children otherwise. Frieza Black is also concerning.

I don't think it's Black=Bad. I think it's Black=Cool. This is why the color black holds such stylistic significance in modern Japanese culture. It's cool.

I think Dragon Ball has almost always followed this particular view on darkness. I never saw any of the darker villains and thought, "evil". When I see most of Dragon Ball's darker characters, I think "badass".

[nineko]

Just because Goku Black isn't the first does not make it right or okay.
https://asaloneasyoucanbe.wordpress.com ... dark-skin/

Oh, that wasn't what I meant.

I didn't mean to undermine your point, on the contrary, I wanted to broaden it by providing a few more relevant examples of similar usages of black/dark features by evil alter egos.

I'm sorry if we hit a language barrier of some kind, or if we simply misunderstood each other. On my part, I truly apologise if that was the case.

[Cursed Lemon]

Why are you calling me a Hotep? That's not cool.

I have no earthly idea what that means but I didn't call you anything nor did I ever refer to you at all.

[LoganForkHands73]

Why are you calling me a Hotep? That's not cool.

I have no earthly idea what that means but I didn't call you anything nor did I ever refer to you at all.

I think he got confused by your Imhotep from The Mummy pun, lol. Wasn't aware it doubled as an insult.

Anyway, I think you Lemon have made the most astute point on the subject. Across countless global cultures, there are often negative connotations with darkness, which is why so many antagonistic figures in stories and myths embody it to some degree, whether through their appearance, clothing or powers. It's a trope as old as storytelling. Of course, some have exploited the old tropes to justify racism, but these days, most people understand that when a shadowy character appears in media, it's not a statement about justifying racism or colorism. Few would look at Goku Black or Tullece and view them as icons for discrimination against people with darker skin tones. Goku Black is not noticeably darker-skinned than Goku and I can't say I've seen anyone with Tullece's grey zombie-like skin tone in real life.

The "Hades Shaded" trope applies all across modern media, but since it often applies to characters who use dark or unnatural powers, I interpret it as their power bleaching their skin like sunburn. For example, Sakura from Street Fighter has an "Evil" alternate form in some games called Sunburned Sakura, which gives her the same appearance and Satsui no Hadou powers as Akuma and Evil Ryu.

In short, I don't think there's anything particularly problematic about it. As said, characters with red eyes is much more of a culturally rooted symbol than a slight against albinos. It may be a total cop-out to say, but it's just the way it is and probably always will be.

[Cursed Lemon]

I think he got confused by your Imhotep from The Mummy pun, lol. Wasn't aware it doubled as an insult.

Oh lol Well I use it in reference to the real historical figure Imhotep but yes also that

Anyway, I think you Lemon have made the most astute point on the subject. Across countless global cultures, there are often negative connotations with darkness, which is why so many antagonistic figures in stories and myths embody it to some degree, whether through their appearance, clothing or powers. It's a trope as old as storytelling. Of course, some have exploited the old tropes to justify racism, but these days, most people understand that when a shadowy character appears in media, it's not a statement about justifying racism or colorism. Few would look at Goku Black or Tullece and view them as icons for discrimination against people with darker skin tones. Goku Black is not noticeably darker-skinned than Goku and I can't say I've seen anyone with Tullece's grey zombie-like skin tone in real life.

The "Hades Shaded" trope applies all across modern media, but since it often applies to characters who use dark or unnatural powers, I interpret it as their power bleaching their skin like sunburn. For example, Sakura from Street Fighter has an "Evil" alternate form in some games called Sunburned Sakura, which gives her the same appearance and Satsui no Hadou powers as Akuma and Evil Ryu.

In short, I don't think there's anything particularly problematic about it. As said, characters with red eyes is much more of a culturally rooted symbol than a slight against albinos. It may be a total cop-out to say, but it's just the way it is and probably always will be.

I'd be interested if someone had an example of this cultural norm getting flipped on its head, e.g. where the color white was viewed negatively and so too the inverse, or some more nebulous interplay. I know the impression of other colors changes wildly from region to region and people to people, but black and white seems to be pretty widespread.

[LoganForkHands73]

I'd be interested if someone had an example of this cultural norm getting flipped on its head, e.g. where the color white was viewed negatively and so too the inverse, or some more nebulous interplay. I know the impression of other colors changes wildly from region to region and people to people, but black and white seems to be pretty widespread.

I guess Baron Samedi from Haitian Voudou mythology is an example, mostly with his whole skeletal motif. Of course, nowadays there are plenty of subversions of whiteness representing evil (Freeza definitely among them) but it's never quite the norm.

[ATA]

Just because Goku Black isn't the first does not make it right or okay.
https://asaloneasyoucanbe.wordpress.com ... dark-skin/

Oh, that wasn't what I meant.

I didn't mean to undermine your point, on the contrary, I wanted to broaden it by providing a few more relevant examples of similar usages of black/dark features by evil alter egos.

I'm sorry if we hit a language barrier of some kind, or if we simply misunderstood each other. On my part, I truly apologise if that was the case.

My dearest apologies for misunderstanding you. I was reading too fast.

Why are you calling me a Hotep? That's not cool.

I have no earthly idea what that means but I didn't call you anything nor did I ever refer to you at all.

I'd be interested if someone had an example of this cultural norm getting flipped on its head, e.g. where the color white was viewed negatively and so too the inverse, or some more nebulous interplay. I know the impression of other colors changes wildly from region to region and people to people, but black and white seems to be pretty widespread.

I see now you was making a joke about the actual Imhotep. The reason I took offense to it, is because hotep is an insult in my community. I see now you didn't mean no harm. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hotep

However I'm still concerned on why you brought up Black people specifically.

Also to your "reverse" theory. There are times where the darker color scheme character is thought to be the villian and then it turns out the lighter color scheme character is the actual villian. It's usally done to surprise the audience.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I don't think they have a prejudice against dark skin colors, otherwise Goku and Uub wouldn't have become darker over time, and Uub wouldn't exist.