Live Action Movie Discussion Thread

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Post by KinoFourpaws » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:40 am

Steven Perry wrote:
KinoFourpaws wrote:Do we really have to inspire more division... ? :?
You're either 'For', or 'Against'. Chose now.

Or suffer the consequences. :evil:
Oh, I'm all for it. I WANT to see this made, if only to know how it turns out and for the fact that, hey, they're making a freaking DRAGONBALL movie! FINALLY!

... I just don't see how toting around badges declaring our positions is going to do anything, at least not anything helpful. The people who care about this will make their opinions known somehow anyway. :P
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Post by SatoSky » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:43 am

The people who don't will also make their opinions known. In any case, if you don't like them you can just ignore them.

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Post by KinoFourpaws » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:55 am

SatoSky wrote:The people who don't will also make their opinions known. In any case, if you don't like them you can just ignore them.
I'm just saying I'm not sure if the avatar thing is the best idea. Now, if Steven is just doing it for a laugh, then that's a different story... and I guess he kinda is since you're happily taking him up on his offer. <.<

But yeah. I probably won't be able to avoid going "..." at them at first if a lot of people decide to use them, but ignoring them is something I'm planning to do. :P

Sorry for being a party-pooper, Steven. >.>;
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Post by SatoSky » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:55 am

If I didn't find it funny, I wouldn't be using it either. Believe me, I want this movie to be made, I am just really skeptical that it will be any good. Visually it will magnificent. Story wise, in my opinion, it will not fare to well. I don't think that a Hollywood director will find a good balance on what should be left in and what should be taken out.

I believe Mike has said this many times in the past, if a Dragon Ball movies is ever to be made everyone will watch it, people will hate it and people will love it, and the internet will be a-buzzing for many years to come. (Not his exact words, but you get the point.)

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. :|

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Post by caejones » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:50 am

Dragon Ball Daisuki wrote:
I dislike Sagas/Spidey3 style intros enough that I might pull a "stupid fanboy" and try to find someone to send my probably-not-working-with-the-plan intro to.
Yeah, or I'll just put it online.
The problem with intros is that they have no precedence. Imagine watching a version of Spider-Man 1 that opted to focus more on the conflict between Spidey and the Goblin that used an intro to "recap" the origin. It's going to be lost on 80% of the audience who aren't familiar enough with the franchise to know the ins-and-outs of the titular character's origins. But to the fans it makes sense!

;P

Then there's the people who want to say things like ... OK FOR THE FIRST TWENTY MINUTES WE RECAP EARLY DRAGONBALL THEN FOR THE NEXT THIRTY MINUTES WE HAVE RADITZ AND FOR THE LAST HOUR WE HAVE TRAINING/VEGETA.

God. These are the sort of people whom I doubt seriously posess anything succeeding a passing familiarity with Dragon Ball -- and want to skip right to the "good stuff": Raditz getting impaled and Vegeta turning into a giant ape. No disrespect towards personal taste, but this is exactly the kind of wood that fuels the fire of sheer dumb action vs. character development and compelling plot.

</rant>
Aye, aye.
Let's think of how Starwars: A New Hope opens so that we know what's going on... would that be the right style for starting at DBZ rather than the beginning of DB?
As for my idea for the movie's opening... the focus of it is to establish as much character as possible while including some important events... sort of like the "Spider-man shouldn't open this way" thing, but attempting to develop existing characters as much as possible without forcing it (I think I failed with Goku and Kuririn. :(. ). Of note is that I remove the 23rd tournament and further Piccolo and Goku in a different way... a move I imagine would get complaints whether or not it's a good idea.
But I could never get past that in my attempts because I couldn't find a decent way to organize the story... other than the Intro - Raditz - Training - Vegeta scenario, which ... well... would be very hard to pull off with any degree of interesting.

And there was something else I wanted to quote and respond to, but I can't find it now.
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Post by Kaboom » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:30 am

Sign me up for a "For," Stevey.
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Post by Dragon Ball Daisuki » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:43 pm

Same here, Steve.
For yer health!

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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:33 pm

SatoSky wrote:If I didn't find it funny, I wouldn't be using it either. Believe me, I want this movie to be made, I am just really skeptical that it will be any good. Visually it will magnificent.
I'm not convinced it will be even that. Judging by what can be done is flawed. DB could be done really faithfully and well, and it could look really good - a la Lord of the Rings. Or, it could change lots of important plot points and character development and look like shit - a la Spider-man 2 (remember that scene with Doc Oc outside the bank? That was fucking terrible).

The movie could be done really well. But based on what we've seen for recent book-to-movie and especially comicbook-to-movie films, I don't have much hope.

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Post by Humpski » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:47 pm

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Post by caejones » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:24 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
SatoSky wrote:If I didn't find it funny, I wouldn't be using it either. Believe me, I want this movie to be made, I am just really skeptical that it will be any good. Visually it will magnificent.
I'm not convinced it will be even that. Judging by what can be done is flawed. DB could be done really faithfully and well, and it could look really good - a la Lord of the Rings. Or, it could change lots of important plot points and character development and look like shit - a la Spider-man 2 (remember that scene with Doc Oc outside the bank? That was fucking terrible).

The movie could be done really well. But based on what we've seen for recent book-to-movie and especially comicbook-to-movie films, I don't have much hope.
Well, seeing as I rather liked Spiderman2... ^^ (Ok, so Doc Oc was unexpectedly different... in such a way that I want him to not have died...).

Actually, let's take that as an example: disregard the fact that mechanical arms capable of thinking of the idea of robbing abank is utterly ridiculous, and that the arms shouldn't behave the ability to send commands with or without the inhibitor chip... I think the definitely-not-canon Doc Oc in Spidey 2 worked. Is it remotely possible to do something like that with a DBZ character? I'm doubting it... but... how far would they go? :shock:
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Post by Godo » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:44 pm

I am really for a live action movie. Since the end of DBGT 1995 there hasn't been much new in Dragonball in motion except cinematics in games.
I like "what if's", so I wouldn't mind if it wasn't that original.
And if some fans get the canon stuff mixed up by watching an unoriginal movie: screw them. They will eventually find out.

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Post by tarsonis » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:44 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Or, it could change lots of important plot points and character development and look like shit - a la Spider-man 2 (remember that scene with Doc Oc outside the bank? That was fucking terrible).

The movie could be done really well. But based on what we've seen for recent book-to-movie and especially comicbook-to-movie films, I don't have much hope.
If the DBZ movie can be watched and enjoyed without comparing it to the manga, it will be fine. Spiderman 2 is a great movie when you judge it based on its own merits, not when you pinpoint every minor change between the movie and the original comics. Which I feel is an irrelevant thing to do, because the movie as it is, is a good one. I'm not saying it's better than the comics, but they managed to make it succeed.

Take the live-action Death Note movies as another example. I thought the anime series was much better, but not for the sole reason that the storyline in the movies was changed somewhat. That's something I pretty much expected to happen anyway.

I don't think the DBZ movie will be as good as the manga/anime by any means, but just ok on its own. As far as the plot goes, they'll probably create something new using established elements from the series.

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Post by Alice » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:46 pm

SaiyaMel wrote:Where Son Goku and his family live. :) parts of it should definitely be filmed there.
I can totally see this turning from Son Goku of Mt. Paozu to, say, George Sonny of the backwoods of Oregon, though.

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Post by Kaboom » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:52 pm

When movies are adapted from comic books and the like, they can't always have the movie versions of the characters precisely true to their comic book / cartoon counterparts. And I stress the word 'counterpart'; they're NOT the same characters. They're different characters heavily based on the originals.

Characters in long-running series, especialy decades-long series like the comic books (let's use Spidey) have had hundreds of issues worth of character development to make them what they are now. Like with Mary Jane for example. Older, hardcore fans wil know all about who Gwen Stacy is... was... or is again... or whatever, and they would have appreciated or enjoyed it if she'd been Peter's girlfriend in the first movie. But they're a relatively small percentage of the audience, MOST of which who when asked, "Who is Spider-Man's girlfriend," think, "Mary Jane, duh." Knowing this, the writers made MJ Peter's love interest from the beginning. We more knowledgable Spidey fans know how much Peter and MJ went through before they ended up together, but when you've only got 2 hours to both establish the characters and go through a decent story, there's really no way to fit all that in.

My point is, and has always been, that it's all about ADAPTATION when it comes to movies like these. Save for some rare cases, to expect characters and events to be EXACTLY the same as the original versions is stupid, because they CAN'T be. There's either not enough time, or it's all too much to fit in.

Would I have liked for the Green Goblin to have dropped Gwen off the bridge and killed her in Spidey 1, as it was a big part of COMIC BOOK Spidey's character development? Sure, it would've been cool. But did I go into the movie expecting it to utterly suck because I knew he wouldn't? No. Absolutely not. I went in there thinking, "It's an understandable change, and I'm going to like the movie either way, because it's Spider-Man, and I like Spider-Man."

I have the same attitude about the DragonBall Z movie, and I can guarantee that will allow me to enjoy it. God forbid I ever become a big enough fan of anything to become so anal and ridiculous as to actually dislike the idea of it getting a movie.

P.S. - I loved Spider-Man 2. About the only problem I've ever had with the Spidey movies in general is the choice of Tobey Maguire; Peter Parker should be a nerdy wisecracker, not a babyfaced whiner. I don't mind other slight character changes, but Peter Parker is Peter Parker, no matter what the medium. Hopefully, the DBZ movie won't have a similar problem.
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Post by MyVisionity » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:25 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Would I have liked for the Green Goblin to have dropped Gwen off the bridge and killed her in Spidey 1, as it was a big part of COMIC BOOK Spidey's character development? Sure, it would've been cool. But did I go into the movie expecting it to utterly suck because I knew he wouldn't? No. Absolutely not. I went in there thinking, "It's an understandable change, and I'm going to like the movie either way, because it's Spider-Man, and I like Spider-Man."

I have the same attitude about the DragonBall Z movie, and I can guarantee that will allow me to enjoy it. God forbid I ever become a big enough fan of anything to become so anal and ridiculous as to actually dislike the idea of it getting a movie.

[/i]
Exactly. I wouldn't expect, nor want, to see the same story I've read for years in the comics to be transferred to the big screen. Like what's been said, it's all about being an adaption, and to me the most important part of being a faithful adaption is not every important plot point, or the character development from the original work, but that the film remains true to spirit of the original. This is what made the Spider-Man films so special in my opinion. Raimi and Co. were able to recapture the essence of the comic book and create a new story for audiences to enjoy.

Now I don't really know if they could do that for a DBZ movie, but I guess you just have to hope for the best.

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Post by Alice » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:01 pm

I found this on a fansite:

An epic story between good and evil, centering on the character Goku and a handful of friends who battle for the Earth against the deadly forces of the Saiyans, who are sweeping across the universe, leaving a path of destruction. Goku and friends' best chance of survival rests with the Namekian DragonBalls, which provide them the power to summon a mighty dragon.

This kind of story makes sense to me, I can see this working and being a likely direction for them to take. There's really no need for the Dragonball half of the series in a movie or much by way of an intro, Piccolo could be introduced as just a Namekian come down to earth and Goku a martial artist who finds out he's really an alien and learns of the Dragonballs when the Earth is threatened. It's pretty simple. If I was writing it, I would definately not have essential elements like the Dragonballs and who his friends are just be a given. That works in a long running series, but in a stand alone movie watched once by people not familiar with the story it makes sense to introduce some things as new to the characters as well as the audience, so I very much doubt we'd get a exact rewrite. Some characters backstories will need scrapped and reintroduced as new. Otherwise you have to have the main characters constantly explaining things to the audience which just doesn't work and makes for a tedious story.

The main thing I really hope they keep is the sense of place, the almost-but-not-quite-Earth. That's one of the little but important things that really makes Dragonball Dragonball.

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Post by desirecampbell » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:46 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:When movies are adapted from comic books and the like, they can't always have the movie versions of the characters precisely true to their comic book / cartoon counterparts. And I stress the word 'counterpart'; they're NOT the same characters. They're different characters heavily based on the originals.
Which is fine. But saying that it's alright to make things different because it's different is stupid. It's going to different, simply because it's a movie. But using that as an excuse for bad story telling is pathetic. The dub is an 'adaptation' of the original script - it doesn't make it good. Bardock being a scientist was not a good decision.
SSj Kaboom wrote:Characters in long-running series, especialy decades-long series like the comic books (let's use Spidey) have had hundreds of issues worth of character development to make them what they are now. Like with Mary Jane for example. Older, hardcore fans wil know all about who Gwen Stacy is... was... or is again... or whatever, and they would have appreciated or enjoyed it if she'd been Peter's girlfriend in the first movie. But they're a relatively small percentage of the audience, MOST of which who when asked, "Who is Spider-Man's girlfriend," think, "Mary Jane, duh." Knowing this, the writers made MJ Peter's love interest from the beginning.
Which is exactly what I'm angry about. Someone decided that "hey, the way it is isn't good enough for us. Yeah it's good literature, but the people who've never seen it before won't recognize the character. New and unexpected things scare people, so we'll fuck the story up instead."
SSj Kaboom wrote: We more knowledgable Spidey fans know how much Peter and MJ went through before they ended up together, but when you've only got 2 hours to both establish the characters and go through a decent story, there's really no way to fit all that in.
Which is why I've always been "pro-cut". If you can't fit it in, cut it out - don't change it, cut it. If you can't fit Parker going through two girlfriends in one movie, don't.
SSj Kaboom wrote:My point is, and has always been, that it's all about ADAPTATION when it comes to movies like these. Save for some rare cases, to expect characters and events to be EXACTLY the same as the original versions is stupid, because they CAN'T be. There's either not enough time, or it's all too much to fit in.

Would I have liked for the Green Goblin to have dropped Gwen off the bridge and killed her in Spidey 1, as it was a big part of COMIC BOOK Spidey's character development? Sure, it would've been cool. But did I go into the movie expecting it to utterly suck because I knew he wouldn't? No. Absolutely not. I went in there thinking, "It's an understandable change, and I'm going to like the movie either way, because it's Spider-Man, and I like Spider-Man."
I went in expecting them to ignore Gwen. Honestly, I assumed it - I wasn't happy with it, but I accepted that it was going to be that way. But when they went ahead and did the whole story arc with MJ instead, I got pissed. If you didn't have the time to do it, or wanted to do an adaptation of the overall Spider-man story: fine, remove the whole plot arc. Don't throw MJ in there and then not kill her off. Then Parker quits web slinging because... noone's died? What?! If you know Spider-man, you can see they've fucked it up- if you didn't know Spider-man you'd assume that Parker's supposed to be a whiny bitch.

Further, they pulled Gwen back in in movie three. Well, her name was Gwen Stacy - nothing else was the same. Following this logic, Raditz will show up on Namek and have no idea who this 'Goku' character is. After all, Raditz is the only child and heir to the empire of a "brilliant scientist".
SSj Kaboom wrote:I have the same attitude about the DragonBall Z movie, and I can guarantee that will allow me to enjoy it. God forbid I ever become a big enough fan of anything to become so anal and ridiculous as to actually dislike the idea of it getting a movie.
You misunderstand. Those that are against the movie, aren't against a good movie. We're against a terrible movie. Which is exactly what we'll get - mark my words.
SSj Kaboom wrote:P.S. - I loved Spider-Man 2. About the only problem I've ever had with the Spidey movies in general is the choice of Tobey Maguire; Peter Parker should be a nerdy wisecracker, not a babyfaced whiner. I don't mind other slight character changes, but Peter Parker is Peter Parker, no matter what the medium. Hopefully, the DBZ movie won't have a similar problem.
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Post by Jerseymilk » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:55 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:God forbid I ever become a big enough fan of anything to become so anal and ridiculous as to actually dislike the idea of it getting a movie.
Well ummm, thanks? :? Yes I'm against a movie being made and would rather never see it happen. I personally feel that a live action movie, especially one made by Hollywood, is incapable of capturing the spirit of Toriyama and DB. If one does get made however, I'll just ignore it's existence and stick the manga and anime. So I personally don't think that translates to "anal".

Really, what's so wrong with not having to constantly have a property one is a fan of always being revived? You could even look at it from the angle that perhaps I'm actually more content and easy to satisy in a way than the people that want something new all the time to keep the franchise going? A lot of these people admit it's because they get bored as the reason. How is that not any less unreasonable?
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Post by JohnnyBoy_Z » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:08 pm

I'd like to see a live-action film. But it has to be done right. Nothing, story-wise, must change. And after seeing The Matrix Revolutions, there is no doubt that the action can be done just as crazy as it is in the anime. The hardest part will be casting the characters.

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Post by SonEric84 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:12 pm

Humpski wrote:Someone HAS to track this guy down to be cast as Mr Satan.

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hahaha Scary...where did that come from?

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