Dragon Ball Thoughts of Others

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Bomber Greek
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Dragon Ball Thoughts of Others

Post by Bomber Greek » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:06 pm

Well, we all know that everyone here is a Dragon Ball fan. Anyway, I'm in 8th grade and I like Dragon Ball, yet I don't seem to be "accepted" for that unless I am with my friends. They all think of it as a cartoon.

One time, I asked a friend if he liked Dragon Ball Z. He said no, because it was "for little kids." Also, I was bringing some Dragon Ball manga to school to let someone borrow, and one of my bastard friends says sarcastically, "Wow that's some good reading material," and he later compared it to shows like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh.

This easily relates to why I hate the companies that ruin anime. I believe that it's because of them for making anime fans have such a bad reputation.

Does anybody here have similar problems?

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Post by Vekurotto » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:24 pm

I'm 18, and in college and I don't really have problems and when I do have a problem with some bastard I proceed to show them any violent scene in DBZ and any sexual humor scene from DB and then ask if that's for kids. 99.9999999% they'll say no and shut up and for the few people who have said yeah they just continued to be stuckup bastards who think shows on MTV like "Next" and "The Hills" are actual television shows.

So you're alright. The people who bother you are just ignorant and don't do any research so they're obviously wrong if they base their entire opinion of a show that they saw less than half an episode of and then dismissed it as kids stuff.
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Post by Humpski » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:53 pm

Don't worry about it too much. When you're out of highschool and into university/college everyone is usually cool with everyone else. People are much more mature and accepting. :wink:
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Post by desirecampbell » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:29 pm

Humpski wrote:Don't worry about it too much. When you're out of highschool and into university/college everyone is usually cool with everyone else. People are much more mature and accepting. :wink:
"Mature and understanding"? I lost my door in second year :P

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Post by Dragon Ball Daisuki » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:47 pm

Ah, yes. I remember those years well. I would always wait for all the browsers in the toy aisle of my local department store to naturally move on before I looked for Dragon Ball figures, or searched for Dragon Ball DVDs, because I was so self-conscious that I thought my 15-year old peers would think less of me. The funny thing was, 90% of my classmates were cool with it or just didn't care one way or the other. Most of it was in my head.

Then, a few years later I went through this phase where I would try to "explain" to others that mainstream Dragon Ball Z was this insane bastardization of the REAL Dragon Ball, of which I was a fan, so it's really two different shows we're talking about here. But I found myself reciting this "public service" more and more to the point that I realized it simply wasn't worth the energy, because I had to repeat it everytime DBZ was brought up. Dragon Ball is what it is. Sure, there are some adult situations, but for the most part fart jokes and action sequences are the series' backbone. It's a shounen.

And it's all right to be into shounen, whether you're in middle school, nineteen (like me), or whatever. But just like every other interest which isn't considered "normal" (including, but not limited to, MTV, binge drinking, and modding your crappy civic) there are going to be some narrow-minded douchebags out there who'll target it for an easy laugh. Be prepared to accept that. Also be prepared to shrug it off, because it ultimately doesn't matter.

One big lesson I learned is that everyone in the world does not have to think highly of you. In fact, it's almost better when they don't.

</pep talk>
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Post by NeptuneKai » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:47 pm

I find it really fun when outsiders judge Dragonball. They usually say the same thing to me only I stop and ask them why they feel that way. It's so interesting to see people with a small amount of exposure to the show give an analysis of what they think is wrong with it. Especially since most of the people who insult it that I know aren’t even aware there is a Japanese version. It gives a good outsiders look at the dub as a show rather then a dub.

I’m comfortable enough in my fandom that trivial little insults don’t bug me anymore. Sometimes I even laugh along and give them more dumb things to laugh about from the show (usually dub lines from Season 1,2 and 3.) Hell I even made Dragonball Z a big inside joke among a lot of my friends just by using dumb dub lines alone.
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Post by Bomber Greek » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:17 pm

I guess you guys are helping me a little. But, I don't want to think highly of myself.

Next time this happens, I'll follow Daisuki's advice, and simply say "why?". I'd like to see what those bastards can think of to say.

If I had the ability too, I'd show them something extremely violent or bloody or show them one of Kamesennin's wild antics.

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Post by Chuquita » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:19 pm

I don't really remember anything like that happening back in high school. I knew lots of people who wore dbz t-shirts and watched fansubs back then.


The few times at my part-time job where people do buy the manga, they're normally people around my age.
If anything I find its the newer, more recent Shounen series that attract little kids.
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Post by nitemare » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:49 pm

I had similar experience of being called a child who never grows up as the others ;] At the beggining of my adventure with DB everyone, especially parents, thought I must be insane to watch another "cartoon" at that age and they haven't even bothered to recognize difference between cartoon and anime/manga. I've even tried to convince them that a very popular bedtime cartoon Mitsubachi Māya no bōken - "Pszczółka Maja" in Poland - is in fact anime but they've only looked at me with pitiful expression on their faces and have told me to get some sleep ;] At point of the time they've started to believe that I simply like opening song fot DB (in Poland it was a pitiful French version) which I'll leave without comments ;]

Years passed, more and more people were watching DB and even though it has became "trendy", people still can't understand my passion and why anyone would like to listen to japanese music... ;]

PS. sorry if my spelling/grammar is bad ;]

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Re: Dragon Ball Thoughts of Others

Post by MajinVejitaXV » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:44 pm

Bomber Greek wrote:They all think of it as a cartoon.
Because it is. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but you like a child's program.

-Corey

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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:13 pm

My friends hate anime and they hate subtitles, not to mention manga and comics.

Sure I copped a little flak over the years for my love of animation, but I realized long ago that I'll always love it, so theres no point being self-conscious about it.
Besides, the people that were criticizing me, watch shows like Australian Idol and think the Simpsons is better than Futurama (Maybe ten years ago you moron!)

Like what you like, and if people hassle you for it, find out what they like and just critique the crap out of it until that person looks like an idiot.

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Post by Carrie » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:22 pm

It was like that to a lesser degree for me in middle school. I'm 21 now, and look back on the whole thing as rather funny, and the people who gave me a hard time about liking DBZ (because I'm a GIRL! SHOCK! GASP! Girls can't watch DBZ!!! You go watch Sailor Moon, you female!) really didn't affect my fandom or the friends I made through that fandom.

One particular instance is when I wore a DBZ shirt to school with a picture of Goku and Vegeta with torn battle-wear on the back. This girl behind me asked why I had to sit in front on her wearing a shirt with naked men on it. All I had to say to her was "You're welcome,".

Just take everything in stride. Believe it or not, the world doesn't end after high school.
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Post by DaemonCorps » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:48 pm

First off, awesome topic :D.

I'm a senior in high school and am completely fine with publicly admitting my love for Dragon Ball. Heck, I'd wear my old DBZ clothes if they still fit.

I never really heard any nay-sayers back when the show was at its trendiest. If any, I guess the most I've heard of any "outsiders" talking about the series would be now in high school, and even then it's not that much, and judging from the context, you could tell that they know enough of the series to not judge it.; it's not like they're ignorantly dismissing the series, or something like that. I remember one time in freshman year when I wore my DBZ sweater to school and my entire science class went on this gigantic "trip down memory lane." It was actually pretty cool to hear from people who used to watch it, but don't anymore, bot because it's "uncool," but just because it doesn't interest them anymore.

But enough of that. It seems like the situation you're having with your peers is that well... you kinda missed the fandom boat a while back. And because of this, there aren't that many peers there who at least have some kind of respect for the show in one way or another. Instead, you're left with a generation under the influence of taking the series in a negative connotation.

As Carrie mentioned, just take it all in stride. It's 8th grade; the time of your life when basically everyone around you acts like a douche, thinking that if you don't like something, then it must mean that you've gotta hate it.

... and just because it's so very true:
Dragon Ball Daisuki wrote:I would always wait for all the browsers in the toy aisle of my local department store to naturally move on before I looked for Dragon Ball figures, or searched for Dragon Ball DVDs, because I was so self-conscious that I thought my 15-year old peers would think less of me. The funny thing was, 90% of my classmates were cool with it or just didn't care one way or the other. Most of it was in my head.
I've always got to think the same thing to myself whenever I go out to buy anime or check the Kids' Section of the DVD rack to see if yet another show from my growing up has been released in a season set. I'm getting there, though :wink:.
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Post by caejones » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:54 pm

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate with the passion of Rocketman's Chichi obsession ×mc² when people consider interests, hobbies, outlooks, atitudes, Etc, Etc, Etc, out of place due to social categories like age, gender, Etc. There's a difference between learning enough to not do stupid things and doing "kiddy" things because regardless of age, they're still awesome.
Dragonball kicks ass. It's not YuGiO, it's not Pokemon, and you still don't have to like it. I do. And Power Rangers are awesome, I asked Santa Clause for an episode of the XMen series from the early 90s on DVD a couple years ago, and a Gohan figure before that... and you know what? Playgrounds=win. Make one my size so the physics aren't overly apparent.

</rant>

^ agrees with everyone else.
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Post by Dragon Ball Daisuki » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:31 am

I think part of what I realized -- and probably what a lot of us realized -- is that it's simply no way to live. I can play the game. I can say all the right things to all the right people; fitting in has never been a problem for me. I can be well-liked and stay in-character for weeks. I hi-jacked many relationships this way for years. If you've read 1984, you know George Orwell called this ability "doublethink". And it does have its benefits.

But it just limits your whole worldview so considerably. I shouldn't be waiting for an empty space, like some closet pervert, just to look at Dragon Ball merchandise. It's ridiculous. To think of all the time I could have saved if I only focused on accepting my unpopular fandom, instead of focusing on ways to "explain it" to people...

In time, it became something much larger than Dragon Ball. It became who I am and who I planned to be. Was I really going to let other people call the shots my whole life? Was I really going to be That Guy? The guy everyone else in the office shoves all the heavy work on just because they know he'll take it?

Hell no. I needed to change this collective social relationship to something that put me in the driver's seat, and not just "along for the ride". Screw it. Screw them. Screw every alienating thought. I'm going to look for DVD Boxsets, read the manga in the used book store, and yes... I WILL LOOK FOR DRAGON BALL ACTION FIGURES.

Bomber Greek, you seem to be coming from the standpoint of "I'd rather show 'em what-for", and that's surely gratifying, when you can do it. What this type of thinking fails to account for, however, is that there will always be one more guy. It's better to just deal with the issue forever in your mind and be done with it. What you've got to realize is, people make unfair judgements on other people every day. They size you up, walking down the street, and decide in their heads "This guy thinks he's better than me" or "This guy really has his shit together!" or "This guy is probably high-maintenance". We all do it. Tell me you haven't spotted some stranger with an unconventional fashion sense and labeled him as a dork, or worse yet, a scenester.

So who cares if-- worst case scenario -- everyone in the world thinks Dragon Ball is lame? You probably think all of them are lame, too. Doesn't seem to bother them much, does it?
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Post by Kendamu » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:02 am

I tell people "Yeah, I'm a geek. I'm very much a Dragonball geek," and they accept it because I don't push Dragonball onto them and I don't expect them to be part of my fandom. I do my thing with Dragonball on my own time away from them. No big deal (except them I poke a joke at my own geekiness once in awhile).

Otherwise, I'm a Japanese 201 student at ISU and I'm studying to teach English as a Second Language. In my spare time, I get exercise and practice martial arts.

I'm in college, I don't live on campus, and all of my friends are over 21 (not councting my girlfriend who is 19) so nobody cares.

Man, that was hard to type. I need to refrain from typing while I am drunk.

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Post by Professor Daravon » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:22 am

I feel like anyone who tries to show their friends a violent scene from the show or something to prove that it's not for kids is being disingenuous. It is for kids. Dragon Ball is very much a children's show. But...so what? There's no law against older people enjoying things that are meant for children. Hell, Toy Story is on the AFI Top 100; the American Film Institute, after careful thought and consideration, decided that this computer-animated children's movie is one of the one hundred best movies in the entire history of American cinema, running all the way back to the late 19th century. If a kid's movie is good enough for the hundreds of critics, filmmakers, historians, etc who participated in the AFI poll, it's good enough for you and, more importantly, your punk ass classmates.

A misconception that many people have is that "adult" themes are somehow inherently better than what you'd find in standard children's programming. I feel that this misconception is especially prevalent among kids in junior high and high school, where everyone is suddenly in a hurry to grow up. But it is just a misconception. Whether your target audience is children, adults, Canadians, whatever, the same elements of storytelling remain important and will make or break your work: characterization, plot, etc. This is why children's movies are routinely critically acclaimed (for a recent example, just look at Ratatouille) and, just as importantly, why explosive special effects extravaganzas with little redeeming artistic quality lurking beneath the veneer of sex and violence are universally panned.

There's nothing wrong with Dragon Ball, and there's nothing wrong with you for liking Dragon Ball. The only problem here is when you take what other people say about you to heart. I've got a friend, 25 years old, shows up at Walmart at midnight to pick up the newest Yu-Gi-Oh DVDs. And yeah, we all give him a hard time over it. But it's all in good fun and he deals it all back to us. That he watches Yu-Gi-Oh certainly hasn't shaped how I or anyone else feels about him, because there's more to people than just one hobby. Friends mess around with each other, but if they're really your friends, they don't really care what you like to watch. You'll have your common interests that you can talk about together and you'll have your individual interests that you don't bother each other with.

But definitely listen to Kendamu about not pushing Dragon Ball onto others. Seems like most general anime forums I've visited over the years experience routine "how do I make my friends like anime?" threads, which just exudes insecurity. Some people just don't like it and you won't help your case by becoming overbearing about it. Doesn't really sound like you were acting that way, but it's definitely worth mentioning anyway. You enjoy something, that's fine. You tell people you enjoy it, that's fine. You don't leave them the hell alone until they promise to give it a fair shake, that's not so fine.

And yeah, Kendamu, I learned the hard way about drunk forum posting (not here, though) a long time ago. Drunk IMing and drunk IRCing are also poor choices. Live and learn, I guess. For what it's worth, you were far more coherent than I have ever been (except that one time I guess, when I drunkenly pieced together a 21 page research paper about Canadian voting trends during my junior year of college and somehow managed an A, but I don't think I'd repeat that experience, nor would I recommend it to anyone else).

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Post by Bomber Greek » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:25 am

I guess you're right. The only one that truly bothers me about it is a douche. My real friends don't seem to care as much.

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Post by Adey » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:42 am

I guess I've been fortunate, all the way through high school from the get go the whole year group was huge on DBZ as I was, and that was 6+ years ago now!

Even people I didn't know I could just ask "Do you like DBZ?" and they'd say yes and there was a new friend already, it was pretty cool having so many people that liked DBZ (there was a few who hated it and preferred Pokemon though..)

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Post by Jerseymilk » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:06 am

"Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves." ~C.S. Lewis
--On Three Ways of Writing for Children

Just quote that to that guy next time BomberGeek and walk off as he tries to process it. :wink:
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