Gohan and his differences in other timelines

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:58 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
Sun_Wukong wrote:Think about it, if the only family and friends you knew since you were born were slaughtered in front of you, i think you would change a bit as well.
Were you refering to me?

He was using what happened to Gohan to sort of put things into perspective.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:01 pm

Yes, but Gohan's friends died in both the manga versions. So why the huge difference in power?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:03 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:Yes, but Gohan's friends died in both the manga versions. So why the huge difference in power?

Because Gohan trained in the Time chamber, and Mirai Gohan did not. Future Gohan missed out on being trained by his father, which Gohan from the regular storyline didn't.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:30 pm

Because Gohan trained in the Time chamber, and Mirai Gohan did not. Future Gohan missed out on being trained by his father, which Gohan from the regular storyline didn't.

Oh, you miss understood what I was say. Why is future Gohan from the Anime stronger than future Gohan from the one-shot manga special? That is what I was saying.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:39 pm

The sense I got from the anime was that they were trying to make his sacrifice for Trunks more noble; it looked like if he only had his other arm, he would've been able to beat the androids, so in effect by saving Trunks he sealed his fate. Also that made Trunks anger at Gohan's death more painful as well.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:59 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
Because Gohan trained in the Time chamber, and Mirai Gohan did not. Future Gohan missed out on being trained by his father, which Gohan from the regular storyline didn't.
Oh, you miss understood what I was say. Why is future Gohan from the Anime stronger than future Gohan from the one-shot manga special? That is what I was saying.

You gotta hype things up, it's TV.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:59 pm

I agree!

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:07 pm

I think if they had straight adapted the manga version for TV it would have sucked. And it would have had some lame filler for padding. By altering the overall flow, they handled it better. Toriyama once said (I believe while praising the Bardock special) something along the lines of him not being very good at dark storylines, which is why he was glad to have talented people working with the anime.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:16 pm

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:17 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:Toriyama once said (I believe while praising the Bardock special) something along the lines of him not being very good at dark storylines, which is why he was glad to have talented people working with the anime.
That's rather ironic considering his original ending for the Freeza saga would've been about as dark as you could possibly get.

What, Gokû dying on Namek? Doesn't sound too dark...

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:Toriyama once said (I believe while praising the Bardock special) something along the lines of him not being very good at dark storylines, which is why he was glad to have talented people working with the anime.
That's rather ironic considering his original ending for the Freeza saga would've been about as dark as you could possibly get.
What, Gokû dying on Namek? Doesn't sound too dark...

Piccolo dying on Namek. So soon after dying on Earth. Would've been a damn tragedy.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:02 pm

Onikage725 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote: That's rather ironic considering his original ending for the Freeza saga would've been about as dark as you could possibly get.
What, Gokû dying on Namek? Doesn't sound too dark...
Piccolo dying on Namek. So soon after dying on Earth. Would've been a damn tragedy.

Oh, I didn't know that. Where there any other changes?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:33 pm

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:37 pm

If the ending you described Kunzait would have happened, I think Dragonball would have been viewed differently by the snobs who brush off the series. I also think that the show wouldn't have been brought over had it been like that.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:07 pm

Post by **Herms** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:13 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:That's rather ironic considering his original ending for the Freeza saga would've been about as dark as you could possibly get.

Kunzait_83 wrote:Basically the original Freeza saga ending would've gone something like this; Piccolo's "near fatal" wound that he took from Freeza's piercing beam would have actually BEEN fatal. Piccolo dies taking Kami and the Earth Dragon Balls with them for good....

That's all just speculation though. Toriyama has said lots of times that he planned on ending the series long before he actually did, but as far as I know he's never said anything to suggest that he originally intended ending it like you suggest. Not to mention that with Piccolo, Goku mentions that he's still alive in the very same chapter that he takes Freeza's attack. I'd say that makes it extremely unlikely that Toriyama ever intended that attack to be fatal

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:41 pm

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:49 am

That there 'original ending' would make for one utterly kick butt TV special, or heck, film.

Somebody quickly needs to get that into production before Nozawa and Nakao die!

Post by **Herms** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:46 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:It’s been so many years that I can’t remember exactly where I originally heard the above described ending but I distinctly remember hearing it described as pretty much exactly that very consistently for a number of years from a number of different sources...

I've heard fans use the ending you described as Toriyama's original plan for the ending lots of times as well, but as far as I know there's no source for it. The Japanese Wikipedia pages for DragonBall, Freeza, and Piccolo say that Toriyama was forced to continue past that point (and also that he was forced to continue past the Piccolo Daimao/23rd Tenkaichi Budouka arc), but say nothing about any intended plans for Goku or Piccolo to die, the Namekians not being revived, the dragonballs disappearing, etc. So barring some new discovery, I think it's safe to say that all that is merely fan speculation, and the idea that there's anything official confirming it as Toriyama's original intentions is misinformation, probably misinformation unique to the English-speaking fandom.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:28 pm

Herms wrote: I've heard fans use the ending you described as Toriyama's original plan for the ending lots of times as well, but as far as I know there's no source for it. The Japanese Wikipedia pages for DragonBall, Freeza, and Piccolo say that Toriyama was forced to continue past that point (and also that he was forced to continue past the Piccolo Daimao/23rd Tenkaichi Budouka arc), but say nothing about any intended plans for Goku or Piccolo to die, the Namekians not being revived, the dragonballs disappearing, etc. So barring some new discovery, I think it's safe to say that all that is merely fan speculation, and the idea that there's anything official confirming it as Toriyama's original intentions is misinformation, probably misinformation unique to the English-speaking fandom.

It may be speculatory but it isn't unfounded. There are a number of Lethal Weapon 2-esque scenarios there. If you don't know what I mean, Shane Black's initial intentions for LW2 were to have Riggs die from the multiple gunshot wounds he received at the end. Most of that is intact in the film, and it really looks like he should have (and did) die, except for the part where Murtaugh manages to wake him up and they crack jokes while waiting for the sirens.

The Freeza Saga is filled with these sorts of final closure things with outta nowhere fixes (presumably due to demand from higher ups and/or fans). Piccolo seemingly takes a blow through the heart (which he can't regenerate from). Vegeta lets his barriers down and reaches an understanding with Goku before dying at Freeza's hands. Saichorou dies, Dende dies, Kuririn dies, Goku attains the rare power of legend only to seemingly die while avenging everyone, and Freeza is seemingly slain by Goku.
Buuuut Piccolo's should-be fatal injury isn't so fatal (fan-wanked away like an Ian Malcolm "oops"), Vegeta is accidentally resurrected, Saichorou gets another few days because apparently a heart attack isn't "natural causes" due to the awesome that is Freeza, Dende and the other namekians return, Kuririn is brought back (and for him and Chaozu we even get convenient new rules for Porunga's wishes) Goku manages to super speed his way into a pod despite having no time left (don't even get me started on the anime version of this where he blows like 5 minutes running around Freeza's ship first), and Freeza is found floating in junks and returns as an ineffective cyborg.

Every single death had a sense of closure (not fun closure, but felt like things were wrapped up). Every single fix felt like "well, time to reset."

Kanzenshuu

Gohan and his differences in other timelines

Who is online