Random Landmark/Forever stuff

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Random Landmark/Forever stuff

Post by Herms » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:45 pm

----Notice:This old thread is part of my series of guides. To avoid necro-posting, please post any comments you have in the sticky thread for my guides, rather than here. Thanks!----

I'm going to be taking off to study abroad in Tokyo pretty soon here, and while I'm taking a daizenshuu or two with me to finish up translating them for kanzentai, I'll be leaving the rest of my DragonBall stuff behind, so I thought I'd use this time to finally get around to posting up some stuff from DragonBall Landmark and Forever, the two guidebooks to the kanzenban release of the manga.

DragonBall Forever has a big section on the "best characters", the top 20 characters voted most popular by fans (or at least by the fans who sent in responses to them, which would basically be modern Japanese fans). They give a brief rundown of each character, but none of these is anything you don't know already, so I'll just post the top 20 characters with how much points they got. These points are how many people voted for that character as their favorite.

Best Characters
1.Son Goku: 6,235 points
2.Vegeta: 2,527 points
3.Son Gohan: 2,131 points
4.Trunks: 1,487 points
5.Piccolo: 1,176 points
6.Son Goten: 798 points
7.Kuririn: 736 points
8.Majin Buu: 421 points
9.Freeza: 324 points
10.Android No.18: 204 points
11.Mister Satan: 201 points
12.Karin-sama: 185
13.Kame-sennin: 172 points
14.Cell: 170 points
15.Yamcha: 163 points
16.Tenshinhan: 125
17.Bulma: 112 points
18.Android No.17: 98 points
19.Yajirobe: 93 points
20.Videl: 86 points

Then there's the "Best Bouts" section, which is the same as the above but with the top 10 fights, as voted by Japanese fans. For each fight they devote a few pages detailing what happened in it, where and when it took place, and stuff like that, but again there's nothing you don't already know if you're on this forum.

Best Bouts
1.Son Goku vs. Freeza: 4,260 points
2.Son Gohan vs. Cell: 2,803 points
3.Son Goku vs. Vegeta: 1,397 points
4.Vegetto vs. Majin Buu: 1,392 points
5.Son Goku vs. Majin Buu: 1,215 points
6.Gotenks vs. Majin Buu: 1,074 points
7.Son Goku vs. Kuririn: 981 points
8.Son Goku vs. Son Gohan: 769 points
9.Son Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao: 572 points
10.Son Goku vs. Cell: 555 points

Then there's the item section. They have a few interesting things were the count the number of times each item is used, and things like that.

Number of times people call for Kinto-un
Goku: 25 times
Karin-sama: 1 time
Kame-sennin: 1 time

People besides Goku who ride Kinto-un [in the manga]
Gohan
Mermaid
Lunch
Chi Chi
Upa
Arale
Ga-chan
Uub
That big girl Goku brings to Kame House(?)

People who are shown not being able to ride it
Kame-sennin
Bulma
Kuririn

Every item ever shown coming out of (and/or into) a capsule
Chapter 1: Bulma's bike
Chapter 2: Capsule house
Chapter 9: Oolong's house wagon
Chapter 11: Yamcha's Fiat 695
Chapter 15: Gyumao's air car
Chapter 23: Yamcha's plane
Chapter 28: Kame House
Chapter 46: Empty (water is put in later)
Chapter 56: RR Army robot
Chapter 56: RR Army plane
Chapter 70: Dr. Brief's porno books (4)
Chapter 78: General Blue's shotgun
Chapter 80: General Blue's plane
Chapter 91: Tao Pai Pai's sword
Chapter 95: RR Army's Battle Jacket
Chapter 109: Pilaf Machine
Chapter 134: Announcer's plane
Chapter 146: Denshi jar for the Mafuuba
Chapter 333: Capsule refrigerator
Chapter 336: Time machine
Chapter 375: Box containing the fighting jackets
Chapter 396: Bags with Satan's tiles (2 bags)
Chapte 517: Trunks' plane

Number of Senzu each person eats
Goku: 9
Vegeta: 4.5
Kuririn: 3.5
Gohan: 2.5
Piccolo: 2.5
Yajirobe: A lot ("Perhaps that's why they became so scarce?" the book asks)

Nyoibo stuff
Nyoibo's length: about 50 cm
Number of time Nyoibo is pulled from its scabbard: 24 times
Number of times Nyoibo stretches: 13 times

DragonBall Landmark has a page summing up each of the first three Tenkaichi Budoukai:

21st Tenkaichi Budoukai
Participants: 137
Out of bounds: 2
Surrender: 2
KO: 2
Other: 1 double KO

22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai
Participants: 182
Out of bounds: 5 [shouldn't Man-Wolf be counted as losing by rules violation?]
Surrender: 0
KO: 2
Other: 0

23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai
Participants: 72
Out of bounds: 4
Surrender: 1
KO: 1
Other: 1 Rules violation

Edit: I've compiled the other things I posted over the course of the thread here in the first post for convenience's sake.
What kind of person is Akira Toriyama?

Q1.What do you now hope to accomplish?
A. I guess I want to complete this plastic tank model.

Q2. Is there anyone you hold in high esteem?
A. I suppose it'd be my wife. I get the feeling that I can't win against her taste and knowledge.

Q3. Are you picky about food?
A. I have absolutely no preferences when it comes to food.

Q4. What animals do you like, and which do you hate?
A. The ones I like are amphibians, and after that dogs or cats. Rodents are the only ones I dislike, but I'm getting over it now that my kids made me get hamster.

Q5. If you were to sum up your personality in a few words?
A. Not even I understand my personality.

Q6. Do you like girls?
A. “Girls”, you say? I like them! I love them! But it's tough for me to communicate with them, ever since way back when...

Q7. What kind of girl do you like?
A. I like assertive, masculine ones. After that, I like girls who wear glasses [heart]. Meganekko sure are great!

Q8. Recently, have you had moments when you thought you were perverted?
A. I've always thought that (laughs). Like when I unexpectedly see someone's underwear...or when I sometimes see something perverted on a video or the internet. And I also love perverted stories [heart]

Q9. What did you do with the pair of panties you received from a reader? [Toriyama mentioned this in one of his weekly comments that went along with each chapter, and the comment got reprinted in Daizenshuu 7. It might have also been mentioned in one of his tankoubon intros]
A. I hung them up for a while, but they got stained with tobacco tar, so I threw them away (laughs).

Q10. What do you use as background music while you work?
A. I don't like music that much...I put on the TV. But I often play things like fast-tempo disco, or QUEEN. I've liked those since way back.
Ask Toriyama!

“If” section

Q1. If you had Hoi-Poi capsules, what would you put in them?
A. I'd really want some. I guess it'd be good to put my entire house into one, since it'd make moving easy.

Q2. If you had Kinto-un, where would you go?
A. Wouldn't I not be able to ride it? Since I'm not pure...

Q3. If you had brains on par with Bulma's, what would you make?
A. A teleporter would be nice. There are lots of places I want to go, but getting there is a pain.

DB character section

Q1. Were there any models for Bulma's hairstyles?
A. There weren't any models, but I tried to consciously change her hairstyle during each turning point [in the story].

Q2. Did Lunch ever manage to meet up with Tenshinhan?
A. I wonder...Tenshinhan gave Lunch the cold shoulder, but she tenaciously persisted, and ultimately they were together! Couldn't that be it? (laughs)

Q3. What become of Tsuru-sennin and Tao Pai Pai afterwards?
A. Ye~ah...they got mixed up in something or another and died, but they were bad people, so perhaps they weren't restored to life...

Q4. How strong is Mister Satan?
A. I think he's plenty strong. But...I don't get the feeling that he's as strong as Bob Sapp (laughs).

Q5. Was Yamcha able to become happy?
A. I've al~ways had that feeling (laughs).

Q6. Afterwards, was Vegeta always unemployed?
A. Bulma is absurdly rich, so there's no need for him to work.

Q7. Pan-chan is strong, but is Bra strong as well?
A. Well, I think she's strong.

Manga artist section

Q1. How did you think up the clothing designs?
A. I looked at stuff like the clothes my wife wears and fashion magazines, and I could tell what was popular by watching TV. It wouldn't be skillful to draw them just as they were, so I changed them around a bit.

Q2. Which is more fun, to draw a girl's body or face?
A. The body's the fun one. But I'm not really confident [at drawing it].

Q3. Please give a few words to young people who aspire to be manga artists.
A. I think it's best to know about lots of different things besides manga. I don't think you can become a manga artist if you look at nothing but manga.
Since Toriyama compares Mister Satan to Bob Sapp, I figured I'd link to a Gaijin Smash editorial about Bob Sapp and Bobby Ologun. It's a really interesting look at how black people and foreigners in general are perceived in Japan.

In the question over whether Yamcha was able to "become happy", the phrase in question (shiawase ni naru) seems to often be used when discussing marriage (or lack thereof). The picture that goes with it is Yamcha, directly after the Cell Games, talking about how his girlfriend wants an expensive necklace. So I guess you can draw your own conclusions.

Here's part 1 of "DragonBall Square", a section in Landmark that gives more Japanese fan poll results. These polls were conducted over the internet. There were a total of about 4,000 respondents, 64% male, 36% female. Many of the respondents were middle schoolers ages 13-15, meaning they would have been babies or not even born yet when DragonBall finished its run in Jump. The book remarks that “the demographic of DragonBall fans is expanding!”

This first part is about people's favorite things about DragonBall. It ranks them, but doesn't give the number of votes they received. Under each thing it gives some quotes from respondents.
1.Goku
“It was interesting how he got stronger and stronger” “I love Goku because he's strong and kind.” “Super Saiyan was shocking!” “When I was in middle school, I really thought I would marry him!” “Are you talking about Kuririn?!!”

2.The rivals
“When it comes to DragonBall, the super battles with the rivals were white-hot!” “The subtle relationship between Piccolo and Vegeta was also good”

3.Love
"Goku and Chi Chi are the ideal couple. That's my own goal!” “I still don't understand how Bulma and Vegeta stayed together.”

4.Training
“What I like most is how the crybaby Gohan become strong!” “The super-duper hard parts were good.”

5.The villians
“DragonBall is the only manga where I grew attached to the villains.” “I'm still scared of Tao Pai Pai.” “I felt complete despair when Freeza said he could transform two more times!”

6.The dragonballs
“I laughed when they wished for a girl's panties!” “I respect how Goku and the others used the dragonballs for the sake of their allies.”

7.The Tenkaichi Budoukai
“I really like the battle scenes, and enjoying the different techniques.” “I laughed during Kuririn and Chaozu's battle.”
So...not only is Goku Japanese fans' favorite character by a huge margin, he's also their favorite thing about DragonBall overall. The way GT was handled is starting to make a lot more sense...

Here's the second part of DragonBall Square. This time, it's the poll results for what people would wish for if they had the dragonballs. The wishes are broken up into general category. They even asked Toriyama what he'd wish for! There are also pictures of DragonBall characters making, who make comments on each section. I paraphrased the parts where they talk about the other wishes in each category.
Dream Section-Jump to the DragonBall world! 35%

To become a DragonBall character
"I want to see what it's like to become a Super Saiyan!”
"I want a tail...”

Others wished to become a DB character and fight alongside everyone.

Goku: Everyone wants to be strong!

To meet a DragonBall character
"I want to meet Goku and the others!”
"I want to marry Goku!”

Others wanted Goku or Piccolo to be their martial arts master.

Kuririn, talking to Goku above: It's no fair how you're always so popular...

Wanting a technique
"I want to fly with Bukujutsu!”

Bukujutsu was the most desired technique. Next was the Kamehameha. Others were the Masenko, Makankosappo, and Dodon-pa.

Goku on Kinto-un: It feels good to fly!

Others
"To fly around the world on Shenlong's back!
"I want to be Yamcha.”

Yamcha: I'm also pretty popular!

Real Section: from outrageous demands to small hopes - 23%

Money
"I want a trillion yen!”
“I want 20 thousand yen...”

Others wanted money for a wedding, or a pot that would always spit out money.
Kame-sennin: The smallest amount asked for was 10 yen [about a dime].

Health
"Make me immortal!”
“Cure my baldness!”

Others wanted youth, to get rid of their curly hair, or keen eyesight.

Freeza: As you'd expect, immortality was a very popular choice.

Hope Section: the world in the palm of your hand! - 12%
"World peace of course.”
"World domination...or something like that.”

Requests for world peace stood out.

Pilaf: Looks like there aren't too many people who share my vision.

I want to see this kind of world too!
"The world when my father was in school.”
"A world without cockroaches.”

Oolong: .......

Love Section: I want to get love right now! - 10%
"I want a cute and kind girlfriend!”
"I want a boyfriend when I'm 12!”

Bulma: It's best to have high hopes!

Transformations Section: Be helped by becoming a different person - 10%

Brains
"To become a genius and win the Noble Prize!”
"I want to get an average above 65% on a test!”

Others wanted to do perfect on tests, have an IQ of 300, or be able to speak fluent English.

Body
"I'm dieting, so make me genetically prone to losing weight!”
"I'm the same as Commander Red...I want to be tall!”

Kuririn: I figured there'd be a lot of people who wanted to be taller.

I want a bigger change! Other things people wanted to be transformed into
"A manga artist!”
"A gymnast”
"Swiss”
"A ninja”

Puar: Transform!

Toriyame Section: Grant me my wish, Toriyama-sensei! - 5%
"I want to read a continuation or side story of DragonBall!”
"I want there to be a new serialization in Jump!”

Others wanted to become Toriyama's assistant, or have him draw a picture of them.

Gohan: Everyone wants to read Sensei's work.

Interview: “What is Sensei's wish?”
We also asked Toriyama-sensei what he would wish for!
"I don't want to be young again, and there are places I'd like to go to if I could warp around. But in the end, I'd want to not have to do any work for about year...I'm a coward, so I'd only ask for a year off (laughs).”

Idiosyncratic section: the wishes of insatiable people – 7%
"Make there be 30 hours in a day!”
"Help the Hanshin V10 go all the way!”
"Make my dog just a little bit smarter!”
"Make me into 100 people!”

Others wanted a father that had a mix of Goku and Vegeta's personalities, to have a memory that would absolutely never forget anything after just looking at it once, or to return to a certain time period.

Wishes that cannot be granted
"Give me 1000 more wishes”
"Don't scatter after it's over” [it took me forever to figure out this was talking about the dragonballs]
"It's a secret.”

Shenlong: That cannot be done.

My wish? A world without traffic accidents!
Last edited by Herms on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:52 pm

Best Bouts
1.Son Goku vs. Freeza: 4,260 points
2.Son Gohan vs. Cell: 2,803 points
3.Son Goku vs. Vegeta: 1,397 points
4.Vegetto vs. Majin Buu: 1,392 points
5.Son Goku vs. Majin Buu: 1,215 points
6.Gotenks vs. Majin Buu: 1,074 points
7.Son Goku vs. Kuririn: 981 points
8.Son Goku vs. Son Gohan: 769 points
9.Son Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao: 572 points
10.Son Goku vs. Cell: 555 points
You have got to be kidding me. :roll: :lol:
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Post by Jerseymilk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:57 pm

Well if you don't include how much it was dragged out in the anime, that fight was pretty pinnacle and epic one.

Thanks for posting this Herms. Very cool read! 8)
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Post by Snail » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:01 pm

Awesome info.

Goku vs Freeza at the top of the list? Very deserving.

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Post by shotkeeper » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:03 pm

Thank you Herms, hope it works out in Tokyo.

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Post by Herms » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:17 pm

Yeah, I don't see anything too odd about Goku vs. Freeza being at the top of the list, if we're going by the manga. It's not my personal favorite fight, but it's certainly very good, but its anime counterpart drags down its reputation a bit.

Though I do think the list as a whole is a bit biased towards the later stuff. I mean, Vegetto vs. Majin Buu got nearly three times the votes as Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao? Goku vs. Tenshinhan or Ma Junior aren't on there at all? The character list is like that as well, with all the humans being way at the bottom. I wonder if this might be a result of the current crop of Japanese fans developing the same sorts of bias against the early stuff that many American fans have? It'd be an interesting thing to look into, maybe.
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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:24 pm

Herms said : Vegetto vs. Majin Buu got nearly three times the votes as Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao? Goku vs. Tenshinhan or Ma Junior aren't on there at all?
This. Those were my biggest complaints. I mean don't get me wrong! Goku vs Freeza is a great fight (overrated) but really good. I understand it comes down to a matter of opinion but still. Goku vs Ma Junior isn't even ON the list! :shock:
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Post by omegacwa » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:29 pm

Some of the best fights in all of DB/Z aren't even on that list.

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Post by Snail » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:29 pm

I always thought that the Gohan vs Perfect Cell fight was extremely anti-climatic. Aside from the Ssj 2 transformation, the rest of the entire fight was blah? It was basically..

-Gohan gets his butt handed to him
-Gohan stands around crying
-Transforms
-Cell gets his butt handed to him
-Cell returns, Oh yay, he can match up against Gohan now..
-No, let's just immediately skip to a big beam struggle
-Cell dies.

And what's this about the Goku vs Freeza battle being overrated? If anything it's underrated over here in North America as far as I can know, and also critisized to hell for the whole 'five minutes left!' debacle.
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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:33 pm

Well if they didn't skip straight to the beam struggle it would have been Goku vs Freeza all over again. In the sense that the fight seems like it'll go on FOREVER.
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Post by Snail » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:40 pm

When I watch a fight, I want things to be a seemingly even battle. It's really a dismal when it's just one sided. It would have been much more entertaining and much more epic if Super Perfect Cell and Ssj 2 Gohan squared off against each other a little bit right before the giant beam struggle. Imo, it was a terribly paced battle. Goku vs Cell lasted for a good 3, 4 episodes from what I can remember, and that was enough to get the audience really revved up for the upcoming fight between Gohan and Cell, but nope..*thumbs down.

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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:45 pm

I completely agree with you. However wasn't Goku vs Freeza just an uneven match ? It started off good at first but then it just came down to Freeza torturing/toying around with Goku. Then he turns Super Saiyan and the fight goes on for another X amount of chapters. Goku vs Cell is a prime example of how a fight should be done. They were both so evenly matched and it was short and sweet. Plus they used more martial arts and just didn't throw Ki blast at each other all day.
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Post by Snail » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:57 pm

In the end Ssj Goku is superior to 100% Freeza, but the way the fight is depicted, the readers/audience are treated to a temporarily evenly matched battle. The anime emphasizes this point with various scenes of Freeza pummeling the hell out of Goku. It's only up until Freeza runs out of steam, that we as the audience finally know for certain that he's screwed.

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Post by SaiyaMel » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:07 pm

Isn't Goten shown riding Kinto-un at some point?
Just Saiyan...

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Post by Kaboom » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:14 pm

I get the feeling that maybe Goku was even matching himself down a bit to Freeza's level, what with the whole deal of wanting to get a good fight out of the "universe's strongest." Eventually, even trying to keep up to that level completely burned Freeza out, and Goku lost interest.
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Post by Chrono Trigger » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:18 pm

Unlike the Goku vs Ma Junior fight where they were pretty much evenly matched. No cheap power ups,no absorptions, and no "LOL suprise I have another super secret form!" Just a good clean brawl. :?
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Post by Snail » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:31 pm

Manga-wise, it's more-or-less my favourite fight out of the entire run of the series. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to view the Piccolo Jr arc of the anime though :cry: .

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Post by saiyanprincess » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:43 pm

Wish you luck with your studying in Tokyo! It's not fair!

Take lots of nice photos and make me envious of all the dbz stuff and the greatness of Japan! - Maybe one day for me. :P
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Post by Herms » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:48 pm

SaiyaMel wrote:Isn't Goten shown riding Kinto-un at some point?
Only in the "We Gotta Power" opening, I believe. Keep in mind that Landmark and Forever are guides to the kanzenban release, so they only cover the manga.

Anyway, here's the first part of the Toriyama short answers. This is DragonBall Landmark's Q&A with Toriyama, from p.156-157:
What kind of person is Akira Toriyama?

Q1.What do you now hope to accomplish?
A. I guess I want to complete this plastic tank model.

Q2. Is there anyone you hold in high esteem?
A. I suppose it'd be my wife. I get the feeling that I can't win against her taste and knowledge.

Q3. Are you picky about food?
A. I have absolutely no preferences when it comes to food.

Q4. What animals do you like, and which do you hate?
A. The ones I like are amphibians, and after that dogs or cats. Mice are the only ones I dislike, but I'm getting over it now that my kids made me get hamster.

Q5. If you were to sum up your personality in a few words?
A. Not even I understand my personality.

Q6. Do you like girls?
A. “Girls”, as they are called? I like them! I love them! But it's tough for me to communicate them, since way back when...

Q7. What kind of girl do you like?
A. I like assertive, masculine people. After that, I like girls who wear glasses [heart]. Meganekko sure are great!

Q8. Recently, have you had moments when you thought you were perveted?
A. I've always thought that (laughs). Like when I unexpectedly see someone's underwear...or when I sometimes see something perverted on a video or the internet. And I also love perverted stories [heart]

Q9. What did you do with the pair of panties you received from a reader? [Toriyama mentioned this in one of his weekly comments that went along with each chapter, and the comment got reprinted in Daizenshuu 7. It might have also been mentioned in one of his tankoubon intros]
A. I hung them up for a while, but they got stained with tobacco tar, so I threw them away (laughs).

Q10. What do you use as background music while you work?
A. I don't like music that much...I put on the TV. But I often play things like fast-tempo disco, or QUEEN. I've liked those since way back.
Last edited by Herms on Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
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We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

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Kunzait_83
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Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:06 pm

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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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