An observation on Dragon Ball's English-speaking fanbases.

[jjgp1112]

I wouldn't say it's a fact, but if Bruce didn't score DBZ you guys would be saying his music is shit.

I sure as hell know I wouldn't. I just like the music. Sue me for having a positive opinion of something the rest of the board hates.

I said before how I think it’s perfectly cool that you like his music just because you do. Ditto other Faulconer fans.

But taking in the dub DBZ fanbase as a whole… it’s REALLY hard for me to disagree with Raki when I see so many of them fellating the Faulconer score like it’s the cure for AIDS while decrying the Menza score as the complete wasteland of crap that it is… and I listen to them both and they sound no different in terms of poor compositional quality and all around forgettable-ness. It’s all just random electronic noise, regardless of whose name is attached to it.

Strictly in my personal opinion, it really does strike me as if the dub fanbase simply has a hard time letting go of Faulconer’s score out of sentimental attachment rather than any sort of inherent quality to the work itself. And that’s perfectly fine and understandable… I just wish that more people would simply man up and admit to it and dispense with the pretense that his work is somehow this sublime magnum opus.

It’s a fucking generic-ass U.S. kiddy action cartoon score. It’s no better or worse than the BGM for something like Bravestarr. If it wasn’t attached to something as powerful and memorable as the visuals to Dragon Ball Z, it simply WOULD NOT be getting the level of praise it sometimes does from folks who were terribly fucking young when they first saw it and had every minute detail of the show permanently branded and seared into the area of their brains labeled “FUCKING AWESOME!!!”

If that style of score were really that inherently magnetic on its own, then why aren’t people lavishing this sort of praise on the scores for Street Sharks and M.A.S.K. when it’s literally NO DIFFERENT in style from something like those?

Because those shows weren’t DBZ, that’s why.

But I liked DBZ's score even when I was still in my 'watching-it-but-I-don't-have-to-like-it" phase of watching DBZ (I used to hate DBZ wih a passion). It actually helped me get into the show more because a lot of the songs were catchy, especially the theme song.

[XanatosVanBadass]

“Welcome to Thunderdome bitch!”

Thanks for the welcome!

Don't get me wrong... I REALLY liked Gundam Wing a lot… but it’s by NO means my favorite entry in the series by any stretch…

I agree fully (my fav Gundam anything would have to be Char's Counterattack). However, you can not deny that anime fans who got into anime via the 1999-2000 toonami run will think of Gundam Wing when they hear Gundam. Much like people think of DBZ as the only Dragon Ball series of note.

I for one personally think the original series was way better than Wing honestly. By all rights it should’ve been on DVD a long time ago.

Again, ditto.

I’d never head the 9/11 rationale. I’d heard it was more due to the animation thing. But eh…

Well, the 9/11 thing is notable because MSG was canceled only a few days after the event. They did this even though they promised the fans that they would at least give it one run. It should also be noted that Cowboy Bebop was kept around even though it dealt heavily with terrorism at times (though it DID go on a brief hiatus).

I always tend to think this sort of thing is simply due to the sort of anime fan culture that was created directly in the wake of the manner in which anime was mainstreamed by something like CN in the first place… but that’s a WHOOOOLE different ball of wax.

Exactly! Whenever, I ask someone who isn't in the know about anime, I usually get, "Oh, those ultra-violent cartoons, right?" or, even worse, "those ultra-violent PORN cartoons, right?" I even get this within the fandom at times, sadly. If there is no blood/boobs, whats the point in their view.

Things ae getting better in that regard, though even distribution companies are slow on the uptake. I recall that Azumanga Daioh was almost passed up by ADV because it was deemed un marketable to the US market as it is a series with know action, violence, or real fanservice (basically a highschool slice of life anime). The only reason it was given a second look was due to the large demand for fansubs of the series, showing that Americans WERE indeed interested, causing ADV to snatch up the rights.

That’s cause SEED was thoroughly over-hyped, overblown, and over inflated by both the marketing as well as an overzealous fanbase. It’s… alright… but it isn’t the second coming of Christ that so many built it up to be by a long shot.

I agree in part, though SEED wasn't marketed that well on CN IMO. Honestly, Wing fans should have eaten it up, but due to poor marketing and a bad timeslot, it was ignored causing them to not release the sequel, Gundam SEED Destiny (A blessing since Destiny was HORRIBLE IMO).

[Super Sonic]

CN didn't really market Seed and instead just like to market those Canadian imports. You Canadian guys, are Total Drama Island and Chop Socky Chooks that popular up there? And now it seems CN has canceled the Toonami block altogether.

[Kid Trunks]

Strictly in my personal opinion, it really does strike me as if the dub fanbase simply has a hard time letting go of Faulconer’s score out of sentimental attachment rather than any sort of inherent quality to the work itself. And that’s perfectly fine and understandable… I just wish that more people would simply man up and admit to it and dispense with the pretense that his work is somehow this sublime magnum opus.

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Yeah, CN isn't becoming the best place for anime. The only shows on there that I give a crap about anymore are Bleach and Code Geass.

I know that Scifi channel has hat Gurren Laggan show and also are now getting Gundam 00 at some point in the future.

This brings me back to something else that I feel has hurt Dragon Balls rep in the US, the way CN broadcasted it! Had they simply run the show through consistantly and not constantly reran it, I doubt there would be as many people bitching about how the show is poorly paced and that it takes forever. Honesly, since I have the season sets I've been marathoning the show and it doesn't drag on THAT badly. The problem was when they would show a saga to a certain point than show reruns . .. from the VERY beginning! AAAAAAAAAARG! The Freeza saga was burned into my very soul at that point! About the time the Cell Games started, I began watching the show on the International channel and finally got into the series!

You all know why I had a hard time getting into it back then? The shitty BGM and horrid dialogue that bordered on overtly macho/homoerotic! lol

[Raki]

Strictly in my personal opinion, it really does strike me as if the dub fanbase simply has a hard time letting go of Faulconer’s score out of sentimental attachment rather than any sort of inherent quality to the work itself. And that’s perfectly fine and understandable… I just wish that more people would simply man up and admit to it and dispense with the pretense that his work is somehow this sublime magnum opus.

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

[XanatosVanBadass]

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's just saying that the reasons you like it are nostalgia, which is fine unto itself. For instance, the first movie I ever saw in theatres was Masters of the Universe in 1987 or so with Dolph Lundren as He-Man and Frank Langella as Skeletor. Now, on most every front that movie is regarded as horrible, but I still love it all the same. When I was little it kicked ass to see live action He-Man and Skeletor doing battle in live action Castle Grayskull. I still get chills whenever I watch it and it makes me feel like a kid again!

So, I can love the movie while recognizing that it is technically an inferior piece of film making. However, Frank Langella rocked as Skeletor! That is a fact anyone can agree with!

[XanatosVanBadass]

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.[/quote]

That five disk imported Dragon Ball CD was the best $100 I ever spent! I listen to it almost all the time!

[jjgp1112]

Strictly in my personal opinion, it really does strike me as if the dub fanbase simply has a hard time letting go of Faulconer’s score out of sentimental attachment rather than any sort of inherent quality to the work itself. And that’s perfectly fine and understandable… I just wish that more people would simply man up and admit to it and dispense with the pretense that his work is somehow this sublime magnum opus.

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

Why does everything come down to popularity?

Nas' Untitled, a great album, gets only 100,000 copies sold in it's first week.

Lil Wayne's Tha Carter 3, a horrible album, gets 10 times as much sales.

Does the popularity really indicate anything about quality?

[Kid Trunks]

Strictly in my personal opinion, it really does strike me as if the dub fanbase simply has a hard time letting go of Faulconer’s score out of sentimental attachment rather than any sort of inherent quality to the work itself. And that’s perfectly fine and understandable… I just wish that more people would simply man up and admit to it and dispense with the pretense that his work is somehow this sublime magnum opus.

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

Thats because the Funi dub isn't used around most of the globe. The Japanese music is.

Edit: Lets not make this some sort of competition.

[XanatosVanBadass]

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

Thats because the Funi dub isn't used around most of the globe. The Japanese music is.

Edit: Lets not make this some sort of competition.

Ah, but here is the thing. The US is the only country that has changed the music for their dub of Dragon Ball. As bad as the Big Green and Saiya-People dubs are, they at least kept the original music. My question to you is, why was our country the only one that needed the change? Dragon Ball is popular all over the world despite changing very little. Is the new music REALLY what made the show successful? Do you love Foulcner's music because it is trully excellant, or because it was music to a show that you happened to love?

[jjgp1112]

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

Thats because the Funi dub isn't used around most of the globe. The Japanese music is.

Edit: Lets not make this some sort of competition.

Ah, but here is the thing. The US is the only country that has changed the music for their dub of Dragon Ball. As bad as the Big Green and Saiya-People dubs are, they at least kept the original music. My question to you is, why was our country the only one that needed the change? Dragon Ball is popular all over the world despite changing very little. Is the new music REALLY what made the show successful? Do you love Foulcner's music because it is trully excellant, or because it was music to a show that you happened to love?

What if he does like it because he thinks it's great music?

Is he an idiot or something?

[SSJ2bardock]

Why did we need to change the music you ask? It's quite simple, this is America!

Also, see metric system.

[Rocketman]

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

The highest grossing movie of all time is Titanic.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Why did we need to change the music you ask? It's quite simple, this is America!

Also, see metric system.

America! FUCK YEAH!

What if he does like it because he thinks it's great music?

Is he an idiot or something?

Not neccessarily, but I fail to see how Fulcner's music can possibly be better than the anime's original score. You know, the one that was actually made as its creators intended and fits the mood Toryama wanted to invoke in his manga.

How, may I ask, does the American score better suit a Japanese anime than Japanese music?

[jjgp1112]

Why did we need to change the music you ask? It's quite simple, this is America!

Also, see metric system.

America! FUCK YEAH!

What if he does like it because he thinks it's great music?

Is he an idiot or something?

Not neccessarily, but I fail to see how Fulcner's music can possibly be better than the anime's original score. You know, the one that was actually made as its creators intended and fits the mood Toryama wanted to invoke in his manga.

How, may I ask, does the American score better suit a Japanese anime than Japanese music?

They both fit, but in different ways.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Why did we need to change the music you ask? It's quite simple, this is America!

Also, see metric system.

America! FUCK YEAH!

What if he does like it because he thinks it's great music?

Is he an idiot or something?

Not neccessarily, but I fail to see how Fulcner's music can possibly be better than the anime's original score. You know, the one that was actually made as its creators intended and fits the mood Toryama wanted to invoke in his manga.

How, may I ask, does the American score better suit a Japanese anime than Japanese music?

They both fit, but in different ways.

Ok, fair enough as that is your opinion. Forgive me for asking as I don't remember where EVERYONE stands on the issue all that well. Are you saying that you like the Bruce music better than the original music? Or are you saying you like them both equally. If you have a preference, that logically means you must think that one is a better representation of Dragon Ball than the other. Logical, isn't it?

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Raki]

So we don't really like the dub? We're just too afraid to let it go because of some kind of weird sentimental attachment to something we don't even like? I don't think so. We like it because we think its good. The same way sub fans like the Japanese music because they think its good.

Other fans around the globe seem to think the Japanese music is good. I hear those Japanese DBZ music CDs sell pretty well. Wonder if Falcouner's music sells that well.

Why does everything come down to popularity?

Nas' Untitled, a great album, gets only 100,000 copies sold in it's first week.

Lil Wayne's Tha Carter 3, a horrible album, gets 10 times as much sales.

Does the popularity really indicate anything about quality?

Even though Nas is an awesome MC, how much hype has he had for his recent album? While Lil Wayne has been on just about every major song in the rap game for a good 3 years. If Nas had properly hyped up his album, it would have sold just as high.

[jjgp1112]

America! FUCK YEAH!
Not neccessarily, but I fail to see how Fulcner's music can possibly be better than the anime's original score. You know, the one that was actually made as its creators intended and fits the mood Toryama wanted to invoke in his manga.

How, may I ask, does the American score better suit a Japanese anime than Japanese music?

They both fit, but in different ways.

Ok, fair enough as that is your opinion. Forgive me for asking as I don't remember where EVERYONE stands on the issue all that well. Are you saying that you like the Bruce music better than the original music? Or are you saying you like them both equally. If you have a preference, that logically means you must think that one is a better representation of Dragon Ball than the other. Logical, isn't it?

I like them both.

I used to not pay the Japanese music any mind, but when I bought Seasons 1 & 2, I listened to the Japanese music to substitute the awful Nathan Johnson music, and I like a lot of the tunes.