DB Super Exciting Guide: Story

[Herms]

The picture of Bulma using a calculator is actually taken from when she's calculating how long it will take to reach Planet Namek on the fastest rocket her father makes.

[Dayspring]

Yeah, I think it would have been better left as it was...
About Goku's 'twice as strong as a normal man' (which is retained on this chart as well)- I always thought that was a bit weird; I mean, surely some Olympic athletes are twice as strong/physically 'powerful' as a normal man, but they can't crush huge boulders with their bare hands or any of the other crazy stuff Goku does when we first see him...still, just another minor niggle in Toriyama's story ^^'

Actually, at that point DB is still a gag-manga, so it's possible for Goku to break boulders and only get wounded by a pistol's bullet, as a Dragonworld Olympian would be the same. I would have prefered if the daizenshuu said his PL was 25, though. That way being stronger than the giant bear bandit that wanted to eat Umigami is more feasable.

[RoarkVegeta]

I'll tell my friend to buy it for me in Japan.

[Herms]

So according to this site, the Character Volume is coming out on April 3rd. Which, as it happens, is also the day they're releasing the first Anoyo-ichi Budoukai anime comics volume.

[Deep Thought]

Could someone post scans of the interview, to verify its realness?

@Super Saiyajin thing: Maybe Goku got a zenkai when the power of Super Saiyajin healed him?

[Herms]

There are scans of it up on the Kanzentai page. They're a bit small, though.

[Hujio]

Could someone post scans of the interview, to verify its realness?

For the sake of proving it's "realness", here's a full-sized scan. I've highlighted the part where Toriyama mentions that the Super Saiya-jin was widely accepted as 50x stronger, though he intended it to only be 10x. You can also see his note on the hair color change from black to blonde on the left side.

Here's Herms translation of the highlighted section:

"To be honest, the way I decided upon the Super Saiyan design was for such a... simple reason that it’d make you go "eh?". I only use one assistant (note 3), who has always helped me. My assistant always had to spend a lot of time blacking in Goku's hair (note 4), so the biggest reason was to save time, since if Goku became a Super Saiyan, his hair wouldn't have to be blacked in. What's more, this also had the effect that one could tell with a glance that Goku had gotten stronger, so it was killing two birds with one stone. At the time, it was made out that he was fifty times as strong when he became Super Saiyan, but that's a little extravagant. As far as my feelings as an author go, I think I drew it with the sense of it being a change of about ten times what he had been up until then."

[Herms]

OK, so Hujio has sent me scans of the training pages (he’s probably sent me half the whole darn book by now), so I’m going to do a little synopsis of it, as it seems to be the only really new feature of the book apart from the Toriyama interview. As mentioned before, the book says this section is based on training data supervised by Toriyama. So just how much of a role did Toriyama really have in this? I suppose I agree with Greg in spirit, if not in particulars. That is, while I don’t think it’s likely that by “data supervised by Toriyama” they simply meant the manga, I do think saying it’s based on data “supervised” by him is very conveniently vague. Did he actively supervise the making of this section, and make lots of feedback? Did he only kind of flip through the thing at the end? Was he just in the room playing video games while they were throwing this thing together, occasionally checking to see if any of the staff members had died? We don’t know.

But anyway, I do rather like this section, if only because again it’s one of the few really new things about the guide. It makes me want to create an RPG based on it. But then, lint makes me want to create an RPG, so that’s nothing special. This section evaluates the different forms of training that Goku undergoes throughout the series, dividing them into seven groups: his training under Kame-sennin, Karin, Kami-sama, Kaio, on his spaceship, in the Room of Spirit and Time, and in Heaven after his death. Each of these training regimes are broken down into sub-sections, called menus (for instance, the milk delivery and dodging bees are two menus of Kame-sennin’s training), and each menu is evaluated by which of Goku’s stats it improves, and by how much, which is rated in stars.

Goku’s 4 stats are power, stamina, speed, and ki. For each training regime, the increase in these stats is plotted on a graph (the top half of the vertical axis is for power, and the bottom stamina, while the left side of the horizontal axis is for ki, and the right for speed). So for the first training regime, under Kame-sennin, it just adds up all the stars for each stat from each menu and plots the total on the graph, connecting each stat total with a line to form a square-ish shape (ah yes, that semester of high school geometry served me well). There are notches on each axis. Each notch seems to equal 5 star points.

For each graph after that, the new square-ish shape representing Goku’s post-training abilities is dark gray, while inside of that the old square-ish shape representing Goku’s pre-training abilities is in white. This way you can see how much Goku improves through the training. Through this set-up, Goku’s stats before his training under Kame-sennin would all be 0, though I guess this makes sense when you consider that the purpose of the section is to map how Goku’s abilities improved through the training he underwent over the course of the series, not map his strength in an objective way.

The first four graphs, going up to Kaio’s training, are set inside a circle 8 notches thick (so 4 notches for each stat), meaning each stat would reach the edge of the circle after 20 star points. For Kaio’s training and onward, this circle is labeled as “Saiyans’ limits”. Goku’s stats go outside this circle after his spaceship training (Goku was said to have gone beyond the limits of the Saiyans during that training). At this point, a bigger circle is drawn around this circle, one 16 notches thick (8 notches/40 star points for each stat), which is switched to an 18 notch thick circle for the very last graph. These circles aren’t assigned any meaning, they just seem to be there so you can still have notches to measure the growth of Goku’s stats against. Either way, Goku’s stats break through these circles after his training in the Room of Spirit and Time (I love how they switch to the bigger one for the last graph, even though it’s still not big enough to contain Goku’s box thingy).

The explanation of how to read these graphs on the first page of the section notes that all these box thingies represent Goku’s normal state, not how he is as a Super Saiyan. It’s not clear if this also means it doesn’t represent his Kaio-ken state. It does say the graphs represent his normal state, but it only says this in contrast to his Super Saiyan states, and it does list the Kaio-ken as a result of his training.

A~anyway (goddammit, I didn’t think all that would take so long to explain) here are the different forms of training, their star increases (I just used numbers), and totals I added up myself, in lieu of the graphs, because I don’t know how to post images. There’s quite a bit of text that goes along with each part, but mostly it just explains the training, and I assume you already know that, so I just summarized.

Kame-sennin
Menu 1: milk delivery
Power: 1
Stamina: 1

Menu 2: plowing fields barehanded
Power: 1
Stamina: 1

Menu 3: construction work
Power: 1
Stamina: 1

Menu 4: laps in the shark-infested lake
Power: 1
Speed: 1
Stamina: 1

Menu 5: dodging bees
Speed: 1
Ki: 1

Total
Power: 4
Speed: 2
Stamina: 4
Ki: 1

Karin-sama
Menu 1: scaling Karin Tower
Power: 2
Stamina: 3
Ki: 1

Menu 2: grabbing the Super Holy Water
Speed: 2
Stamina: 2
Ki: 1

Total
Power: 6
Speed: 4
Stamina: 9
Ki: 3

Heavenly Realm
Menu 1: sparring with Mister Popo
Power: 3
Speed: 2
Stamina: 2
Ki: 2

Menu 2: meditation
Ki: 4

Menu 3: training in very thin air, weights
Power: 2
Speed: 2
Stamina: 3
Ki: 1

Total
Power: 9
Speed: 8
Stamina: 14
Ki: 10

Kaio’s Planet
Menu 1: catching bubbles
Power: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Ki: 1

Menu 2: learning to control ki, sparring with Kaio
Power: 4
Stamina: 2
Ki: 8

Total
Power: 16
Speed: 12
Stamina: 20
Ki: 19

Spaceship
Menu 1: training at 100x Earth’s gravity
Power: 10
Speed: 10
Stamina: 10
Ki: 6

Menu 2: returning from the brink of death
Power: 7
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Ki: 9

Total
Power: 33
Speed: 25
Stamina: 33
Ki: 34

Room of Spirit and Time
Menu 1: sparring with another Super Saiyan
Stamina: 4
Ki: 10

Menu 2: meditation
Ki: 3

Menu 3: constantly being a Super Saiyan
Power: 8
Speed: 6
Stamina: 7
Ki: 8

Total
Power: 41
Speed: 31
Stamina: 44
Ki: 55

Heaven
Menu 1: weight training
Power: 7
Speed: 8
Stamina: 7
Ki: 4

Menu 2: image training
Ki: 10

Total
Power: 48
Speed: 39
Stamina: 51
Ki: 69

It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.

[JulieYBM]

Ah, that's really interesting. Toriyama always intended for flight to absorb a lot of ki so I can see how flying with 40 tons would make training a pain.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.

That is interesting, so is that also the reason why Vegeta in the filler is engaged in a lot of aerial maneuvers and spinning in the air while he is arguing with Bulma via the tele-screen on the ship while training in heavy gravity?

[SSj_Rambo]

Damn that is a lot of great new and interesting info! I can't wait for the Bonus Coverage for this book to come out so that I can see this with the graphs.

Could we possibly get some quick translations of the 3 "Training EX" pages, so that we can see the increases made by the other characters listed? Thanks!

PS: And Herms, if you ever need any images uploaded for any reason (LIKE FOR AN AVATAR OR SOMETHING!) I'd be more than happy to help.

[Herms]

Could we possibly get some quick translations of the 3 "Training EX" pages, so that we can see the increases made by the other characters listed? Thanks!

Hujio hasn't sent me those pages yet...which is a shame, since I really want to see what sort of training Mike went through to become such a great webmaster.

But seriously, I'm not sure if the EX pages have the same sort of graphs as Goku's pages. Hujio said they cover Gohan's training in the wilderness and Vegeta's training for the androids, etc. In addition to the other characters' training, they also have some of Goku's power-ups that aren't listed in the main section, like the Super Saiyan and the potara. I'm wondering if they make any sort of attempt to explain how the power-ups fit into the main section. For instance, the graph for Goku's training under Kami treats his pre-training abilities as equal to what they were after he trained with Karin, while he should have gotten a lot stronger from drinking the Super God Water, and traveling around the world earlier.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Wow, good to see I was kind of right about Goku with the 40 tonnes thing.

[Hujio]

Hujio hasn't sent me those pages yet...which is a shame, since I really want to see what sort of training Mike went through to become such a great webmaster.

Well don't worry, he will be soon enough. Promise. Maybe he'll just scan the whole damn book for you...

That cover was really done by Toriyama? It doesn't look like his "style"...

So, I scanned the flyer that came with the guide to clear up any confusion about who drew the cover artwork. The red text in the bottom left corner (カバイラストは鳥山明先生描き下ろし！) clearly states "Cover Illustration drawn by Akira Toriyama-sensei!" So there you have it.



By the way Herms, I am now officially a moron. You may notice the upcoming "Character Volume" is listed on the flyer... with the release date. I don't know how I keep missing these things.

[Herms]

The art style for this cover kind of reminds me of the one Toriyama used for the pictures that the special figurines for the R2 singles were based on (go here and scroll down aways). It does look a bit different than they style he drew the kanzenban covers in. I think something about the coloring is different.

[SSj_Rambo]

@ Hujio: Could we possibly get a scan for the Dragonball Kai flyer? Thanks!

[Herms]

So Hujio sent me scans of the Training Ex pages (the “Ex” meaning “extra”). This is divided up into two parts, each two pages long. The first part deals with the training of other characters besides Goku. It doesn’t have the same star ratings and graphs for these characters that the section on Goku’s training does, but other than that it’s set up in the same way. It gives the location and purpose of the training, the master trained under (listed as the trainee themselves in the case of self-training), and divides the training up into different aspects, called “menus”. It has Gohan’s training in the wilderness (menu 1: surviving on his own, menu 2: sparring with Piccolo), and Vegeta’s training in the years between the Cell Games and the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai (not for the androids, like I said before), with the two menus being training in high gravity and sparring with Trunks, and…that’s it. No other characters or their training. Kind of disappointing. I hope they focus more on the other characters in the next volume (it being called “Character Volume” and all).

Some things of interest is that it describes Gohan’s training as being based mostly on strengthening and learning to control his ki, while Vegeta’s training is described as training his muscles to the limit. And as a result of Vegeta’s training, it says he awakened to Super Saiyan 2, so that’s another data point in that debate (Daizenshuu 7 also says Vegeta acquired Super Saiyan 2 through training).

The second part deals with Goku’s power-ups: Super Saiyan, the Super God Water, and the potara. Again, mostly all stuff we’ve heard before, recounting the legend of the Super Saiyan and all that. It says Super Saiyan 3 has a calmer heart than Super Saiyan 2, which does seem true. It gives the same old thing about Super Saiyan making Goku fifty times stronger than his normal form. It also says that Super Saiyan 2 has two times the strength of regular Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 3 has four times the strength of Super Saiyan 2, so that’s something new.

The entry on the Super God Water explains why that image of an Oozaru appeared when Goku’s power awakened: it says that the poison triggered a memory within Goku associating the tremendous power sleeping inside him with the Oozaru (or possibly just that it triggered a memory sleeping inside him associating tremendous power with the Oozaru; I’m not too sure which it means). For the potara, it says that the power-up from merging isn’t a sum of the two’s battle powers, but rather as tremendous as multiplication.

[Innagadadavida]

The entry on the Super God Water explains why that image of an Oozaru appeared when Goku’s power awakened: it says that the poison triggered a memory within Goku associating the tremendous power sleeping inside him with the Oozaru (or possibly just that it triggered a memory sleeping inside him associating tremendous power with the Oozaru; I’m not too sure which it means).

Is that referring to the Oozaru behind Goku when he impaled King Pic?

[Herms]

Is that referring to the Oozaru behind Goku when he impaled King Pic?

It's referring to the picture of the Oozaru that appears as Goku's still struggling with the Super God Water, right before he finally wakes up (well, I guess it could be referring to both, but that's the picture they show).

[JulieYBM]

• The second part deals with Goku’s power-ups: Super Saiyan, the Super God Water, and the potara. Again, mostly all stuff we’ve heard before, recounting the legend of the Super Saiyan and all that. It says Super Saiyan 3 has a calmer heart than Super Saiyan 2, which does seem true. It gives the same old thing about Super Saiyan making Goku fifty times stronger than his normal form. It also says that Super Saiyan 2 has two times the strength of regular Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 3 has four times the strength of Super Saiyan 2, so that’s something new.

*Clears throat*

Holy @$@#%^#^&$%^#$%

Thank you for revealing that, my good sir.


Holy crap. SSj2 is 100-times and SSj3 is 400-times?? My lord. I think I'm having a heart attack.