Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

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theherodjl
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Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:12 pm

Why Goku or Kaio never taught anyone else the Kaio-ken is a frequent question among fandom but I wonder something else, would it even matter? The Kaio-ken only goes up to a maximum of x20 the user's power(under great strain) and it cannot be stacked with the majority of the SSJ forms due to instability. The only person with enough power out of the traditional Z-Senshi, power that isn't based purely on a transformation, is Piccolo but would he have been strong enough with a x10 or x20 boost to take care of the various threats that came their way? I can see him taking out the Androids during that arc and I can maybe see him defeating Perfect Cell but by the time Boo came around, Piccolo might have been overwhelmed entirely. I also can't help but think that had the Z-Senshi relied on Piccolo using the Kaio-ken to handle all of their threats then the Saiyans may have not achieved their various degrees of power as well as their improved SSJ forms.
It may have very well been for the best to simply abandon the Kaio-ken as a supposed ace-in-the-whole and gone the way things ended up going.
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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:23 am

Kaioken might be acclimatisable to an extent. We did see Goku expand upon the technique between the Saiyan arc and when he first touched down on Namek by raising the multiplier to x10 and x20 successively. Back during the Vegeta fight he was struggling just to remain upright and not keel over from the intense strain of having used a x4 multiplier. A x10 was probably the equivalent to a x2 burst during the Saiyan arc. Goku's ever increasing power level certainly lessened the strain but I imagine he probably trained with the technique enough to where he was conditioned to handle lower multipliers with less damage caused to his body.

I've had my own opinion on hypotheticals like if Krillin and Yamcha had taken up Goku on his offer to be trained by them during the Mecha Freeza arc. They couldn't hope to match the Super Saiyans in standard un-amplified strength but who's to say they couldn't at least surpass the base Saiyans in power? Every Saiyan except Gohan was prioritising their transformations and training in them by that point in time probably. If they could attain a power level of at least 10 million then a Kaioken x20 burst would arguably put them within competitive range of the Super Saiyans during the Android arc (depends on what your estimates are for them at the time). Higher Kaioken multipliers or a higher base power would give them even greater odds of being competitive. Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho would likely become the most dangerous but effective attack they have, maybe even by the Cell Games still.

Now for Piccolo, I can sort of understand why he might not have been given it. In the Cell arc he was the weakest of the viable fighters most of the time but it wasn't by a terrible amount. Toriyama would have needed to either raise the power levels of everyone to compensate, make Piccolo weaker, or find some other way for the cyborgs and Cell to bypass/overcome a potential Kaioken burst from Piccolo. It otherwise would have meant that the cyborgs are killed during the initial battle and Cell gets taken out even if he does manage to absorb more humans. Of course one simple workaround for Cell is to actually have him use the Kaioken as well. Such a decision would have ripple effects for the remainder of the arc, though, because now Cell is capable of using an amplification technique that could very easily render the Saiyans' training efforts moot, regardless of Gohan's potential.

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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:48 am

I always wondered why Black never used it, I mean, he knew the majority of Goku's signature techniques, you'd figure he'd also unlock the Kaio-ken technique, which is one of Goku's most powerful techniques, and in addition it is a technique invented by a Kai. I guess he didn't have the time required to unlock all of his techniques, especially since he was in that body for one year. It's still surprising, because the clip he saw on Godtube showed Goku going Kaio-ken.

So to answer your original question, if someone like Black knew about the Kaio-ken, everyone would be dead. Rosé Black alone was overpowered, easily able to take on all his enemies by himself, if you add Kaio-ken to the mix, he'd be unstoppable. Fused Zamasu would be even more dangerous, because he'd be able to use the Kaio-ken for an unlimited amount of time, since he has unlimited stamina.
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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:48 am
Fused Zamasu would be even more dangerous, because he'd be able to use the Kaio-ken for an unlimited amount of time, since he has unlimited stamina.
But then he'd probably go all Tetsuo and mutate into some massive, cancerous fetus because of trying to mix all that straining power with his unstable fusion body. I get the feeling that Zamasu wouldn't be above that though, he might relish the idea of being some kind of Lovecraftian abomination that drive mortals insane.
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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:44 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:48 am
Fused Zamasu would be even more dangerous, because he'd be able to use the Kaio-ken for an unlimited amount of time, since he has unlimited stamina.
But then he'd probably go all Tetsuo and mutate into some massive, cancerous fetus because of trying to mix all that straining power with his unstable fusion body. I get the feeling that Zamasu wouldn't be above that though, he might relish the idea of being some kind of Lovecraftian abomination that drive mortals insane.
Actually as much as Zamasu's body seemed to be unstable, I still didn't see him get tired or anything. Plus his healing was still crazy, the proof is that he was unscathed by the SSB Final Kamehameha. So I think that even though his body was twisted, he would still be able to keep the Kaio-ken much longer than Goku at the very least. He wouldn't be able to use it forever, because his body was literally melting at the end of the day, but his immortality would definitely give him a major advantage.

Also imagine if Black had Kaio-ken. Couldn't he just keep spamming it and then have Zamasu heal him whenever his body is strained too hard? He would basically have an infinite amount of Zenkai boosts at his disposal.
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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 pm

I always felt that kaioken was never taught to anybody else because the toll it takes to master a technique that maximizes and sustains the user's power(and even worse later: recover from it) can only be withstand by a body built to fight and accompanied by a terrific mindset. Not even Kaio mastered it, and actually Goku's body has shown signs that he can too have problems with the technique.

Perhaps a namek's body could never survive it because even a weak fighter can become really strong but then their body will collapse if the technique/combat gets out of hand, it's a hard fall dropping from 32000 PL to 9000(or less) like Goku did and he barely survived it. I don't see early arc's Piccolo doing the same. But after merging with Nail (or Kami) he might be able to. I don't see any human being able to go through what Goku went through. They might be able to use the kaioken for brief moments but that would be it.

Gohan, Piccolo(after Nail or Kami), and Ten are the only fighterZ I see being able to master it and rely safely on it in battle. Ten being the less qualified to do so, but he could only use it to maximize his Shin Kiko-ho. His stubborness would probably cost him his life while using it way too much, crossing for good that threshold Goku crosses over and over.
I don't think they would teach such a dangerous technique to Gohan until he is a little older, android arc at least. His mentality probably isn't the best combination for kaioken, he is not that much into surpassing himself.

So, I think they would only be ready to learn it before Cell showed up, and then they would be doing just x2, x3 or even x4, maybe Gohan can accelerate his SS transformation but once he goes SS he drops KK like Goku did. I don't know how much strong would a 4x KK do to Gohan but I don't see him being relevant, maybe as a SS he could kill Cell before absorbing 18.
I see Piccolo going x10 or x20(after his second try at ROSAT) by the Cell Games. After the 7 year hiatus he might have perfected and reach x50 kaioken, he has the brains and his body might be able to resist it.

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Re: Would It Have Mattered If Anyone Else Knew The Kaio-Ken?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:28 pm

From a narrative stand point it would've just made things worse. A technique with constant and consistent power multipliers makes it more difficult for characters to stay relatively near one another in strength. I think the better option is to eventually have everyone else learn to use god ki and Migatte no Goku'i so that characters like Kuririn, Videl and Piccolo could potentially fight on Gokuu and Vegeta's level should someone feel like focusing on those characters.
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