The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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SupremeKai25
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:11 am

Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:43 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:00 am
In the anime it was said by Shin and Gowasu (people who have worked alongside Destroyers for eons) that Fused Zamasu's "mere existence was beyond their understanding", "that they never felt such an awesome light", "that they couldn't comprehend his mere standing as a God". So if we go by hype alone then Fused Zamasu can indeed solo the Destroyers :think:
Shins capacity to power scale lost credibility when he crapped his pants around Pui Pui.

I think simple explanation is that they’ve never seen that sort of power because even when GoDs have used their outbursts to destroy things it’s been so so fractional. Fused Zamasu’s output was greater than the small fraction of max strength they’ve seen GoDs use.
You're missing the point. If you're a writer and you have Shin say "I can't even understand how this God can exist!!!", it's not because you want to portray Shin as an idiot, it's because you want to portray Fused Zamasu as unbelievably strong.
And yet you still have the desire to fight me, don't you? Go ahead and challenge me all you like until you realize your own sheer impotence.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:46 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:11 am
Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:43 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:00 am
In the anime it was said by Shin and Gowasu (people who have worked alongside Destroyers for eons) that Fused Zamasu's "mere existence was beyond their understanding", "that they never felt such an awesome light", "that they couldn't comprehend his mere standing as a God". So if we go by hype alone then Fused Zamasu can indeed solo the Destroyers :think:
Shins capacity to power scale lost credibility when he crapped his pants around Pui Pui.

I think simple explanation is that they’ve never seen that sort of power because even when GoDs have used their outbursts to destroy things it’s been so so fractional. Fused Zamasu’s output was greater than the small fraction of max strength they’ve seen GoDs use.
You're missing the point. If you're a writer and you have Shin say "I can't even understand how this God can exist!!!", it's not because you want to portray Shin as an idiot, it's because you want to portray Fused Zamasu as unbelievably strong.

I’m not doubting Fused Zamasu’s strength, I’m even saying it probably was the greatest display of power Shin and Gowasu had ever seen at that point.

And I’m not saying Shin was being used to be an idiot there, obvs it’s to hype up Zamasu. I’m just saying his track record in the past hasn’t been confidence inspiring. Most of Shin’s screen time just seems to have him be the butt of many jokes about his list of incompetencies.

But we also know that Beerus hasn’t been shown being still hasn’t been shown being serious yet in battle. The completed SSB form in the manga for a hit on Beerus who then decided to immediately end it.

CSSB the from which was matching Zamasu.

All my point is that it can be both true that Zamasu is the strongest these kais have seen, because they’ve not seen their universes GoDs have to go all out.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:48 am

Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:46 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:11 am
Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:43 am


Shins capacity to power scale lost credibility when he crapped his pants around Pui Pui.

I think simple explanation is that they’ve never seen that sort of power because even when GoDs have used their outbursts to destroy things it’s been so so fractional. Fused Zamasu’s output was greater than the small fraction of max strength they’ve seen GoDs use.
You're missing the point. If you're a writer and you have Shin say "I can't even understand how this God can exist!!!", it's not because you want to portray Shin as an idiot, it's because you want to portray Fused Zamasu as unbelievably strong.

I’m not doubting Fused Zamasu’s strength, I’m even saying it probably was the greatest display of power Shin and Gowasu had ever seen at that point.

But we also know that Beerus hasn’t been shown being still hasn’t been shown being serious yet in battle. The completed SSB form in the manga for a hit on Beerus who then decided to immediately end it.

CSSB the from which was matching Zamasu.

All my point is that it can be both true that Zamasu is the strongest these kais have seen, because they’ve not seen their universes GoDs have to go all out.
Yes but you're still looking at things from an in-universe perspective, I'm adopting a meta-perspective. It's pointless to bring up CSSB from the manga because that's a manga-only form, we're talking about Toei writers (this was said in the anime). Toei writers even said in an interview that Fused Zamasu was an "hax character", he was indeed meant to be/portrayed to be as a very powerful threat, possibly a GoD level threat. Now obviously we know that Fused Zamasu is submerged by the power-creep, but that is the point. The writers constantly retcon where GoD level and Beerus stand compared to the other characters. In the movie it was even said by Whis that if Goku and Vegeta teamed up as SSB they'd have a chance at defeating Beerus, but now it's clear that that's no longer the case.

It is therefore not a surprise that the power-scaling in this show is a mess, given the constant retcons.
And yet you still have the desire to fight me, don't you? Go ahead and challenge me all you like until you realize your own sheer impotence.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:25 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:48 am
Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:46 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:11 am


You're missing the point. If you're a writer and you have Shin say "I can't even understand how this God can exist!!!", it's not because you want to portray Shin as an idiot, it's because you want to portray Fused Zamasu as unbelievably strong.

I’m not doubting Fused Zamasu’s strength, I’m even saying it probably was the greatest display of power Shin and Gowasu had ever seen at that point.

But we also know that Beerus hasn’t been shown being still hasn’t been shown being serious yet in battle. The completed SSB form in the manga for a hit on Beerus who then decided to immediately end it.

CSSB the from which was matching Zamasu.

All my point is that it can be both true that Zamasu is the strongest these kais have seen, because they’ve not seen their universes GoDs have to go all out.
Yes but you're still looking at things from an in-universe perspective, I'm adopting a meta-perspective. It's pointless to bring up CSSB from the manga because that's a manga-only form, we're talking about Toei writers (this was said in the anime). Toei writers even said in an interview that Fused Zamasu was an "hax character", he was indeed meant to be/portrayed to be as a very powerful threat, possibly a GoD level threat. Now obviously we know that Fused Zamasu is submerged by the power-creep, but that is the point. The writers constantly retcon where GoD level and Beerus stand compared to the other characters. In the movie it was even said by Whis that if Goku and Vegeta teamed up as SSB they'd have a chance at defeating Beerus, but now it's clear that that's no longer the case.

It is therefore not a surprise that the power-scaling in this show is a mess, given the constant retcons.
Did toei retroactively say that or did they say it more around the time. I mean Toei are right in him being pretty hax and he’s clearly the strongest foe Goku/Vegeta have faced at that moment in time. (obvs ignoring Beerus skirmish in bog)

But writing a character to say x is the strongest doesn’t mean the writers have to agree with it above all else. It’s just them hyping up the current villain to create a sense of hopelessness. He’s the big bad of the future trunks arc. They’re not gonna write ‘Zamasu is strong but obviously he’s nothing compared to Lord Beerus’ as that makes the situation seem less dire from a writing standpoint. (See how ressurection F lacked tension by Frieza acknowledging Beerus’ power)

but if you’re saying that the writers genuinely thought that biggest display of strength they’ve seen equates to most powerful force they’re aware of when they know all the GoDs and Zeno? Those Toei writers were lying since they shown Zeno just effortlessly destroy Zamasu

You’re just taking that a writer writing a line for a character to say must mean the writer agrees with that sentiment.....

Imagine if anytime people were hyping stuff ifs coke watch this story arc we’ve written and watch them face off against a strongish foe.

Vs them saying watch x where Goku and Vegeta face their biggest threat yet..

There I’m out of universe now.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:38 am

Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:25 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:48 am
Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:46 am



I’m not doubting Fused Zamasu’s strength, I’m even saying it probably was the greatest display of power Shin and Gowasu had ever seen at that point.

But we also know that Beerus hasn’t been shown being still hasn’t been shown being serious yet in battle. The completed SSB form in the manga for a hit on Beerus who then decided to immediately end it.

CSSB the from which was matching Zamasu.

All my point is that it can be both true that Zamasu is the strongest these kais have seen, because they’ve not seen their universes GoDs have to go all out.
Yes but you're still looking at things from an in-universe perspective, I'm adopting a meta-perspective. It's pointless to bring up CSSB from the manga because that's a manga-only form, we're talking about Toei writers (this was said in the anime). Toei writers even said in an interview that Fused Zamasu was an "hax character", he was indeed meant to be/portrayed to be as a very powerful threat, possibly a GoD level threat. Now obviously we know that Fused Zamasu is submerged by the power-creep, but that is the point. The writers constantly retcon where GoD level and Beerus stand compared to the other characters. In the movie it was even said by Whis that if Goku and Vegeta teamed up as SSB they'd have a chance at defeating Beerus, but now it's clear that that's no longer the case.

It is therefore not a surprise that the power-scaling in this show is a mess, given the constant retcons.
Did toei retroactively say that or did they say it more around the time. I mean Toei are right in him being pretty hax and he’s clearly the strongest foe Goku/Vegeta have faced at that moment in time. (obvs ignoring Beerus skirmish in bog)

But writing a character to say x is the strongest doesn’t mean the writers have to agree with it above all else. It’s just them hyping up the current villain to create a sense of hopelessness. He’s the big bad of the future trunks arc. They’re not gonna write ‘Zamasu is strong but obviously he’s nothing compared to Lord Beerus’ as that makes the situation seem less dire from a writing standpoint. (See how ressurection F lacked tension by Frieza acknowledging Beerus’ power)

but if you’re saying that the writers genuinely thought that biggest display of strength they’ve seen equates to most powerful force they’re aware of when they know all the GoDs and Zeno? Those Toei writers were lying since they shown Zeno just effortlessly destroy Zamasu

You’re just taking that a writer writing a line for a character to say must mean the writer agrees with that sentiment.....

Imagine if anytime people were hyping stuff ifs coke watch this story arc we’ve written and watch them face off against a strongish foe.

Vs them saying watch x where Goku and Vegeta face their biggest threat yet..

There I’m out of universe now.
Look, the situation is simple. Beerus has been repeatedly retconned to remain the strongest, as have all the other Destroyers. Because otherwise even in the U6 arc Goku and Vegeta could have already beaten him by teaming up in SSB. The story was clear.
And yet you still have the desire to fight me, don't you? Go ahead and challenge me all you like until you realize your own sheer impotence.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:25 am

Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:54 pm
First form Freeza from RoF runs the gauntlet.

- Super Perfect Cell.
- Good Boo.
- Boo arc SS3 Goku.
- SS3 Gotenks.
- Boo arc Ultimate Gohan.
- Super Boo with Gohan absorbed.

How far does he get?
We have little to go off of besides Freeza toying with SSJ Gohan -- who is regarded as the most significant danger there despite Super Namekian Piccolo's involvement -- as though he were a helpless mouse. Freeza didn't so much as have to leave his anti-gravity pod and power himself up to contend with the half Saiyan. Who knows how much power he was actually emitting but I question if it was even 1/10th of his maximum in the suppressed form. Piccolo and Gohan, in turn, acknowledge Freeza as if he were from "another dimension" with respect to his power.

I'm going to say that this form of Freeza could take everything up until Ultimate Gohan where he's then stonewalled. If somehow he managed get around this powerful Buu arc era fighter then Buutenks would easily put him down.
I read some past comments and came across a nice theory.

Freeza knew Goku beat Boo and immediately transformed to his final form when they started their match. Maybe this implies Freeza can't beat Boo without his final form. Would line up with Krillin saying twice that they would be alright (in Goku and Vegeta's absence) if Boo was with them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:25 am
Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:22 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:54 pm
First form Freeza from RoF runs the gauntlet.

- Super Perfect Cell.
- Good Boo.
- Boo arc SS3 Goku.
- SS3 Gotenks.
- Boo arc Ultimate Gohan.
- Super Boo with Gohan absorbed.

How far does he get?
We have little to go off of besides Freeza toying with SSJ Gohan -- who is regarded as the most significant danger there despite Super Namekian Piccolo's involvement -- as though he were a helpless mouse. Freeza didn't so much as have to leave his anti-gravity pod and power himself up to contend with the half Saiyan. Who knows how much power he was actually emitting but I question if it was even 1/10th of his maximum in the suppressed form. Piccolo and Gohan, in turn, acknowledge Freeza as if he were from "another dimension" with respect to his power.

I'm going to say that this form of Freeza could take everything up until Ultimate Gohan where he's then stonewalled. If somehow he managed get around this powerful Buu arc era fighter then Buutenks would easily put him down.
I read some past comments and came across a nice theory.

Freeza knew Goku beat Boo and immediately transformed to his final form when they started their match. Maybe this implies Freeza can't beat Boo without his final form. Would line up with Krillin saying twice that they would be alright (in Goku and Vegeta's absence) if Boo was with them.
Forgot about that quote. Thanks for reminding me.

Yeah, it's odd since Krillin should have been aware of Gohan's Ultimate power up from the BOG arc. Maybe Toriyama didn't want to address it besides the off-hand put down Gohan made of himself when talking with Roshi about the state of his training. Regardless, it's really telling that Buu's presence would garner more confidence than Gohan's.

If Freeza feels inclined to transform just to handle what he perceives as a power capable of defeating Buu then, yeah, my own projections of Freeza just got downgraded a lot -- to his final form even. What does that say about his other suppressed forms? You could make the argument that Freeza in his first form isn't so much as capable of handling Super Perfect Cell if we go by the pattern of increase from form to form that we saw in the Namek arc.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:21 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:54 pm
First form Freeza from RoF runs the gauntlet.

- Super Perfect Cell.
- Good Boo.
- Boo arc SS3 Goku.
- SS3 Gotenks.
- Boo arc Ultimate Gohan.
- Super Boo with Gohan absorbed.

How far does he get?
Dumb little Dragon Ball gave us two different scenarios for Freeza, in the movie he one-shots base Gohan(who dropped back to base to face Freeza when his henchmen required SS lol), which isn't much of a feat, specially with that Gohan.
So, in the movie, Freeza could be just Namek SS level, enough to one shot a base Gohan with a PL of, at best, 50M. Being below his own FP from the Namek saga should do the job too. Twice or thrice as strong is enough. Following up on this, if his FF retains a 200x boost on top of his 1st form(or maybe more), then his FF form would be mid-Buu tier and the base Goku, that beat him up, could be relative to Ultimate Gohan.

In the anime, if we consider Freeza didn't really face SS Gohan, only blasted him from afar when his guard was down(and his back was turned IIRC), then maybe his 1st form isn't that impressive. In the same arc, something similar happens to SSB Goku, drops his guard, gets shot by a minion and loses the fight.

For the anime, he should be stronger than he was in the movie, because he needed a bunch of blasts to put SS Gohan down, but not necessarily stronger than SS Gohan. Depends on who we believe could sucker-blast a rusty SS, I guess someone at least stronger than 2nd form Cell, strong as Super Vegeta I guess. But then again, if Sorbet could shoot Blue Goku, then Freeza is not needed to be that strong to do the same several times to a rusty SS.

Movie 1st form Freeza loses to everybody on that list.
Anime 1st form Freeza could only take Super Perfect Cell, which I seriously doubt.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm

SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta ( Android saga Pre-Rosat and no disease for Goku) vs Initial Imperfect Cell

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon May 03, 2021 6:31 pm

GatoF wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm
SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta ( Android saga Pre-Rosat and no disease for Goku) vs Initial Imperfect Cell
The Imperfect Cell we witnessed in Ginger Town seemed to be recovering from attacks in a timely manner and was all around handling himself effectively enough despite being weaker than Piccolo at the time. Vegeta could recover from attacks inflicted by #18 but it's obvious he was recoiling quite a bit from the pain and being pressured a great deal. If I had to compare them, Cell appeared closer to the cyborgs than the Super Saiyans.

If we were to assume that neither Saiyan has any understanding of Cell's abilities plus they refused to work together then I believe Cell would likely win as he can eventually absorb one of the two's biomass. When that happens the gap becomes larger and their fighting pool weakens. However, if they collaborate then they can win this. I imagine it panning out similar to Vegeta against first form Freeza. It's a difficult battle but they can win it if they actually work together.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon May 03, 2021 9:19 pm

GatoF wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm
SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta ( Android saga Pre-Rosat and no disease for Goku) vs Initial Imperfect Cell
Cell was weaker than 17 (and probably than 18, too) who said that if the Z-senshi teamed up against 18, she'd be overwhelmed and his intervention would be required. The Z-senshi in question were SS Trunks, Piccolo, and Tenshinhan + SS Vegeta.
This case would be similar, with Goku instead of Trunks (Goku > Trunks) but without the non-factor Tenshinhan, and without Piccolo who was easily defeated by 17. So, a weaker team up against a weaker threat could end up with a similar outcome to what 17 commented: Cell being overwhelmed (unless one thinks Piccolo was or would be some sort of defining factor).

In raw strenght, I think it's doable, in practical terms, highly doubtful: the saiyans would not fight together under any circumstance, not at that time in their relationship. They would take turns, but they'd be considerably weaker than Cell to make him struggle or make him fight the second saiyan in a battered state.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue May 04, 2021 12:59 am

GatoF wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm
SSJ Goku and SSJ Vegeta ( Android saga Pre-Rosat and no disease for Goku) vs Initial Imperfect Cell
Cell is stronger but not by a lot. Goku and Vegeta win this if they work together.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm

How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 04, 2021 3:54 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
Wow, those are some generous match ups for the two of them. Many fans don't even believe they surpassed Namek arc Freeza as of the Moro arc, let alone anything stronger.

The problem with the humans is that they engage in the fights so rarely after the Freeza arc and are usually so outclassed that it's difficult to get a feel of how they measure up with other characters.

We do see Tenshinhan avoid a Bionic Punisher from Gero in unison with base Goku during the early segment of the Android arc. Afterwards, his energy along with Krillin's was deemed usable for the same mad scientist turned cyborg to harvest for supplementing his own strength so he could take SSJ Vegeta. I personally have Tenshinhan not too distantly situated from the base Saiyans prior to them entering the ROSAT for training. Krillin wouldn't be far off, in my opinion, with a power level roughly comparable.

Frankly, the only listed fighter of this group that I feel either of them could take would be Freeza -- assuming he's the suppressed variant we saw initially fighting base Goku on Namek. You do have some odd coincidences in Tenshinhan avoiding Buu's genocide attack while #17 was purportedly killed, according to the Daizenshuu. Oh, but then Chaozu also avoided the projectiles so what are supposed to think -- that both former Crane students surpassed the cyborg siblings during the Buu arc?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 04, 2021 4:07 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
I don't think they stand a chance, individually, against any of those enemies. However, if they were to fight together, they might defeat Final Form Freeza, if he doesn't power up. If he does power up, only Shin Kikoho can save them.

Android 19 and 20, even on their own, might be tougher because they can absorb their ki blasts, without Shin Kikoho I think they would lose.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue May 04, 2021 4:25 pm

Lionel wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:54 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
Wow, those are some generous match ups for the two of them. Many fans don't even believe they surpassed Namek arc Freeza as of the Moro arc, let alone anything stronger.

The problem with the humans is that they engage in the fights so rarely after the Freeza arc and are usually so outclassed that it's difficult to get a feel of how they measure up with other characters.

We do see Tenshinhan avoid a Bionic Punisher from Gero in unison with base Goku during the early segment of the Android arc. Afterwards, his energy along with Krillin's was deemed usable for the same mad scientist turned cyborg to harvest for supplementing his own strength so he could take SSJ Vegeta. I personally have Tenshinhan not too distantly situated from the base Saiyans prior to them entering the ROSAT for training. Krillin wouldn't be far off, in my opinion, with a power level roughly comparable.

Frankly, the only listed fighter of this group that I feel either of them could take would be Freeza -- assuming he's the suppressed variant we saw initially fighting base Goku on Namek. You do have some odd coincidences in Tenshinhan avoiding Buu's genocide attack while #17 was purportedly killed, according to the Daizenshuu. Oh, but then Chaozu also avoided the projectiles so what are supposed to think -- that both former Crane students surpassed the cyborg siblings during the Buu arc?
I agree for the most part, my thoughts were more to see how strong others may view these characters. I wanted to provide a long list for any people who high ball Tien. I agree though they could maybe take Frieza at best.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue May 04, 2021 4:28 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:07 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
I don't think they stand a chance, individually, against any of those enemies. However, if they were to fight together, they might defeat Final Form Freeza, if he doesn't power up. If he does power up, only Shin Kikoho can save them.

Android 19 and 20, even on their own, might be tougher because they can absorb their ki blasts, without Shin Kikoho I think they would lose.
I agree, just checking if anyone wanked the Earthlings

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed May 05, 2021 4:04 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
As of BoG the humans are still behind base Goku who is behind final form freeza (and mecha implicitly too) Everyone on this list is stronger then those, except maybe cold...

Buu arc doesn't help Ten as Kuririn stopped training some point in the 7 years and is still stronger as BoG so he hasn't caught up to much.

So maaaybe Ten beats Cold but the gap between him and Goku historically is wider than the gap between freeza and cold.

You are better off saying moro arc Ten and Kuririn, as we don't have an exact way of determining their growth. Or Ten and Kuririn from those eras as a team, who could possibly beat Freeza/Mecha/Cold but probably not the androids, deffo not 18 onwards.

Ten with Kikoho is a different story.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed May 05, 2021 5:40 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm
How about a guantlet?
Tien and Krillin both individually go down the ladder. Tien is from the Buu saga and Krillin from the Cell games. Tien can't just use the Neo Tri beam, he has to try and engage in martial arts and use other abilities.
vs Frieza
vs Mecha Frieza
vs King Cold
vs Dr. Gero
vs Android 19
vs 18
vs 17
vs Imperfect Cell (the one who fought 16)
They beat no one. Maybe their ToP versions manage something against Freeza.

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Hellspawn28
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed May 05, 2021 6:15 pm

Tullece after the Tree of Might fruit vs. The Ginyu Force.

Round 1: He fights one at a time

Round 2: He fights all of them at once
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