Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, the Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

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Peach
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Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, the Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Peach » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 pm

It's strange that Roshi didn't try using it in the future on the Androids after they murdered everyone.

Roshi and Piccolo could have used it on Buu when he was on the lookout killing people, too.

Piccolo could have used it on Frieza after he was brought to Namek. And in Resurrection F and the Moro saga, either Piccolo or Roshi could have tried it before Goku and Vegeta arrived.

It seemed to work SO WELL in the Tournament of Power and against Zamasu. Wouldn't it have been able to defeat other fighters in the past?
Last edited by Peach on Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:27 pm

Out-of-universe: Toriyama forgot about it.
In-universe: Roshi and Piccolo forgot about it.

Everyone is always forgetting about something in DB. Its only when they remember all of the tools & abilities that they have at their disposal is when they actually succeed. That and the occasional dumb luck too.
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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:48 pm

Yes. Before Super it seemed the only caveat was the opponent needed to be a demon. Which meant that it couldn't be used again until the Buu Saga rolled around. (attempting to use it on Cell would lead to the Mafuba Counter, like Piccolo did in the 23rd) Both Master Roshi and Piccolo could have caught Super Buu unawares while he was waiting on the lookout...But Post Super, yes it could be used on anyone.

In theory the move is unstoppable, If you have good aiming skills and you did the incantation right. Since the move is also no longer an auto kamikaze, one can assume that you need to use your energy to contain your opponent, and when people died, its because they expended everything including life energy. So then if Master Roshi or Piccolo used it on Moro, the question is could they seal him before their ki gives out, or before their life energy gives out.

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Goku da Silva » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm

Peach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 pm
It's strange that Roshi didn't try using it in the future on the Androids after they murdered everyone.

Roshi and Piccolo could have used it on Buu when he was on the lookout killing people, too.

Piccolo could have used it on Frieza after he was brought to Namek. And in Resurrection F and the Moro saga, either Piccolo or Roshi could have tried it before Goku and Vegeta arrived.

It seemed to work SO WELL in the Tournament of Power and against Zamasu. Wouldn't it have been able to defeat other fighters in the past?
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:41 pm

Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
So what, Super never happened? The Mafuba was never used against a Supreme Kai, some mooks and a Freeza Clone?

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Lionel » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:48 pm

In hindsight it should have worked but it would be contingent on the user's accuracy with directing the current to the sealing device. Sadly, you do have this comment from Roshi acknowledging that raw strength plays a part in the technique's efficiency. Apparently it has to be a vast gap, however, since Roshi was capable of using the technique and almost successfully sealing away Daimou when he was likely less than half of his opponent's power if not more.
It may have worked against Nappa if performed by Piccolo but I'm uncertain of Vegeta. Freeza could have been easily sealed by Piccolo up until he raises his power up to 50% -- from there I feel you're left with a situation reminiscent of Vegeta where it's uncertain if it would work. The cyborgs and Cell would likely prove untenable for different reasons as they should have prior knowledge on the Mafuba. Now for the last two, Piccolo may not be able to seal them. I won't completely dismiss the possibility as he's not millions of times weaker than those opponents but it's iffy at best. Goku against Moro could almost certainly do it, though.

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:02 pm

Lionel wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:48 pm
In hindsight it should have worked but it would be contingent on the user's accuracy with directing the current to the sealing device. Sadly, you do have this comment from Roshi acknowledging that raw strength plays a part in the technique's efficiency. Apparently it has to be a vast gap, however, since Roshi was capable of using the technique and almost successfully sealing away Daimou when he was likely less than half of his opponent's power if not more.
It may have worked against Nappa if performed by Piccolo but I'm uncertain of Vegeta. Freeza could have been easily sealed by Piccolo up until he raises his power up to 50% -- from there I feel you're left with a situation reminiscent of Vegeta where it's uncertain if it would work. The cyborgs and Cell would likely prove untenable for different reasons as they should have prior knowledge on the Mafuba. Now for the last two, Piccolo may not be able to seal them. I won't completely dismiss the possibility as he's not millions of times weaker than those opponents but it's iffy at best. Goku against Moro could almost certainly do it, though.
Raw Strength? That's quite the subversion from standard Dragonball, I'm impressed.

I disagree immensely with the idea that because of the abilities capabilities, that there is no choice but to downplay Piccolo's skill that it would fail. I feel like Piccolo would die doing it, but he can seal Vegeta if he needed to.

16 - 18 wouldn't know anything about the Mafuba, Gero only gave them knowledge on Goku. Cell though, having Piccolo's cells, would know the Mafuba Counter.

I suppose by Buu Saga, you could say Piccolo would fail, though if they caught Buu unawares, and maybe if Master Roshi could help, they could seal him and then die promptly.

Against Moro, leave it to Goku.

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Peach » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm

Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
Peach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 pm
It's strange that Roshi didn't try using it in the future on the Androids after they murdered everyone.

Roshi and Piccolo could have used it on Buu when he was on the lookout killing people, too.

Piccolo could have used it on Frieza after he was brought to Namek. And in Resurrection F and the Moro saga, either Piccolo or Roshi could have tried it before Goku and Vegeta arrived.

It seemed to work SO WELL in the Tournament of Power and against Zamasu. Wouldn't it have been able to defeat other fighters in the past?
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
It worked against Vegeta, Frost, and Zamasu in Dragon Ball Super.

Also, Super Buu is a demon pretty much exactly like Piccolo Daimao

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by TobyS » Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:28 pm

Peach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm
Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
Peach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 pm
It's strange that Roshi didn't try using it in the future on the Androids after they murdered everyone.

Roshi and Piccolo could have used it on Buu when he was on the lookout killing people, too.

Piccolo could have used it on Frieza after he was brought to Namek. And in Resurrection F and the Moro saga, either Piccolo or Roshi could have tried it before Goku and Vegeta arrived.

It seemed to work SO WELL in the Tournament of Power and against Zamasu. Wouldn't it have been able to defeat other fighters in the past?
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
It worked against Vegeta, Frost, and Zamasu in Dragon Ball Super.

Also, Super Buu is a demon pretty much exactly like Piccolo Daimao
Only according to Toei.
It only works on Zamasu in the manga, and even then it's like the hakai where although it fails for other reasons we don't know if it would have failed anyway.

The reversal works on Kami, so I like to think it only works on divine beings OR Demonic ones, but not mortals in between, no evidence of this except its the only way it doesn't make everyone forgetful idiots.

As for Buu I don't know if he's really a demon, like you are in limbo after you die, in fact the anime afterlife being busy implies otherwise.
He's pure evil but I don't think he's a demon like Piccolo or Dabra. Either way I think Piccolo would be too weak going by what roshi says about Zamasu.
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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Goku da Silva » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:43 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:41 pm
Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
So what, Super never happened? The Mafuba was never used against a Supreme Kai, some mooks and a Freeza Clone?
I don't even consider Super, i'm am old school DB fan. To me DB is only the original DB and DBZ (I'm 30 after all).

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:36 pm

Goku da Silva wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:43 pm
FoolsGil wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:41 pm
Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
So what, Super never happened? The Mafuba was never used against a Supreme Kai, some mooks and a Freeza Clone?
I don't even consider Super, i'm am old school DB fan. To me DB is only the original DB and DBZ (I'm 30 after all).
And I'm 33. you do you, but brand loyalty makes people miss out on a lot of good things. Not the Super anime though. Super anime's crap. But other good things.

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Jackal puFF » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:09 pm

Goku da Silva wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:43 pm
FoolsGil wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:41 pm
Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
So what, Super never happened? The Mafuba was never used against a Supreme Kai, some mooks and a Freeza Clone?
I don't even consider Super, i'm am old school DB fan. To me DB is only the original DB and DBZ (I'm 30 after all).
Even though Toriyama is involved? :problem: Okay anyways. Yes I'm theory Roshi could have definitely used it against all the old foes and it would have worked if done correctly..

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Re: Could the Mafuba have defeated the Saiyans, Frieza, Androids, Cell, Buu, and Moro?

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:20 pm

Goku da Silva wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:43 pm
FoolsGil wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:41 pm
Goku da Silva wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:56 pm
It's for demons only mate. :lolno:
So what, Super never happened? The Mafuba was never used against a Supreme Kai, some mooks and a Freeza Clone?
I don't even consider Super, i'm am old school DB fan. To me DB is only the original DB and DBZ (I'm 30 after all).
No one cares what you consider, the fact is official Dragon Ball material has shown the Mafuba being successfully used against characters who aren't demons. That's just reality.

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