The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:15 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:04 am
So, we have SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, SS Goten, SS Trunks, SS3 Gotenks and SS Vegito. All from Z.

Who can take them all at the same time, on their own, from GT? and from the earlier arcs of DBS, except Beerus of course?

Could RoF SSB Goku take all of them? would SS Rose Black be needed? or SSG Goku from BoG should be enough?
From GT, Super Baby 2 should already be able to beat them as his previous form was already above Vegito and there is huge gap between Gotenks or Gohan and Vegito that shouldn't make much difference, let alone others.
DBS power levels are too inconsistent for me to judge. The answer could be SSB Goku as much as Roshi depending on episode.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:53 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:04 am
So, we have SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, SS Goten, SS Trunks, SS3 Gotenks and SS Vegito. All from Z.

Who can take them all at the same time, on their own, from GT? and from the earlier arcs of DBS, except Beerus of course?

Could RoF SSB Goku take all of them? would SS Rose Black be needed? or SSG Goku from BoG should be enough?
If there is any truth with Ssj Vegito (Buu Saga )>=<Ssj4 Goku (Baby Saga).

Then he alone could probably defeat great ape baby. With the team by his side. It’s almost certain. That said, I don’t know if he can beat Super 17. I know for sure that Vegito, Gohan, and Gotenks can beat some shadow dragons.

As for Super. I feel Vegito and Vegito alone can maybe defeat Final Form Frieza in Rof. After that? Nope. Won’t move past the base forms of any character past that saga.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm

How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:41 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm
How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
At beeeest, Piccolo puts up a marvelous fight, assuming he's closed the gap that made his efforts useless and Vegeta's useful when helping Gohan vs Cell.
I don't think he has, though, training on his own isn't the same as training with a partner, there was no particular motivation and his gains were never displayed, so I think they weren't considerable.
I think Vegeta wins.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:47 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:41 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm
How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
At beeeest, Piccolo puts up a marvelous fight, assuming he's closed the gap that made his efforts useless and Vegeta's useful when helping Gohan vs Cell.
I don't think he has, though, training on his own isn't the same as training with a partner, there was no particular motivation and his gains were never displayed, so I think they weren't considerable.
I think Vegeta wins.
To be fair, since it's been 7 years, I wouldn't be shocked if Piccolo in the Buu saga is around the level of Full Power SSJ Goku and Gohan. So in that case, I believe he could win. It's made clear he isn't as powerful as a weaker SSJ2 Gohan, so he isn't quite SSJ2-level. It's never made clear in the Buu saga, but I'd wager he could give Perfect Cell (with Cell holding back, that is) a decent fight at this point.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:50 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm
How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
I have Piccolo winning this but after a hard fight. I can even see him defeating a Cell Jr, since 7 years ago he wasn't that far behind one.

However, he is still nowhere near Cell Games Goku, Gohan, and much less Perfect Cell.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:17 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:50 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm
How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
I have Piccolo winning this but after a hard fight. I can even see him defeating a Cell Jr, since 7 years ago he wasn't that far behind one.

However, he is still nowhere near Cell Games Goku, Gohan, and much less Perfect Cell.
I don't think we can say for sure either way since it's never stated. But considering how powerful he was already before the Saiyans hopped into the RoSaT, plus considering he went in himself...with 7 years going by I have a hard time buying he wouldn't be near the Full Power Super Saiyans. Especially since you're saying you think he could defeat a Cell Jr., since they're roughly the same level as Perfect Cell. And just to clarify, I'm talking Perfect Cell, not Super Perfect Cell.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:46 am

Who's the weakest character in Super that can beat SSj Vegito (Buu Saga)?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:05 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:17 pm
dragonball0900 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:50 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:09 pm
How about Buu Saga Piccolo vs End-of-Cell-Saga Vegeta?
I have Piccolo winning this but after a hard fight. I can even see him defeating a Cell Jr, since 7 years ago he wasn't that far behind one.

However, he is still nowhere near Cell Games Goku, Gohan, and much less Perfect Cell.
I don't think we can say for sure either way since it's never stated. But considering how powerful he was already before the Saiyans hopped into the RoSaT, plus considering he went in himself...with 7 years going by I have a hard time buying he wouldn't be near the Full Power Super Saiyans. Especially since you're saying you think he could defeat a Cell Jr., since they're roughly the same level as Perfect Cell. And just to clarify, I'm talking Perfect Cell, not Super Perfect Cell.
The Cell Jrs. were not Perfect Cell level. Cell stated that Goku was losing because he was tired. A fresh Goku would have beaten the Cell Jr. easily, since those were stated to rival Vegeta and Trunks. Goku was in a different league compared to them.

Buu Saga Piccolo would be somewhere above Trunks/Vegeta/Cell Jr. but below Goku/Gohan. His gains were simply not that big since he trained all by himself during a time of peace. Still, I would say going from being below Trunks, Vegeta and a Cell Jr. to surpassing all of them is a good achievement.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:45 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:46 am
Who's the weakest character in Super that can beat SSj Vegito (Buu Saga)?
In the manga, it would have to be Hit, probably at full power. The time skip of his suppressed state shouldn't work if SS Goku was doing that well.

In the anime, well, base Goku and base Vegeta. Aside from them, base Black or Hit.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:55 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:46 am
Who's the weakest character in Super that can beat SSj Vegito (Buu Saga)?
Super Saiyan God Goku, assuming fusion wouldn’t cut against Beerus when they had their first encounter.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:37 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:05 am
The Cell Jrs. were not Perfect Cell level. Cell stated that Goku was losing because he was tired. A fresh Goku would have beaten the Cell Jr. easily, since those were stated to rival Vegeta and Trunks. Goku was in a different league compared to them.

Buu Saga Piccolo would be somewhere above Trunks/Vegeta/Cell Jr. but below Goku/Gohan. His gains were simply not that big since he trained all by himself during a time of peace. Still, I would say going from being below Trunks, Vegeta and a Cell Jr. to surpassing all of them is a good achievement.
I remember reading that the Cell Jr's were Perfect Cell level, ludicrous as that may seem. If they're not though, they're not that far behind, probably stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell but weaker than Perfect. Goku would have fared better if he wasn't tired, but I'm not sure he'd have beaten them even at his best. In his fatigued state, he was getting whooped. Piccolo wasn't exactly doing well, but he wasn't getting massacred by them, either. Meanwhile, SSJ2 Gohan was shown annihilating them to show how far he had risen above them, and Perfect Cell (whom at SSJ2 he could have killed had he taken care of business).

So with all that being said, there isn't enough here for me to think Piccolo, assuming he had trained for 7 straight years (because what else does he do?) couldn't have at least gotten to FPSSJ level. Ofc there's nothing saying he did, either. I will say that's my MAX for him, though.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:32 am

Berserker1921 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:53 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:04 am
So, we have SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, SS Goten, SS Trunks, SS3 Gotenks and SS Vegito. All from Z.

Who can take them all at the same time, on their own, from GT? and from the earlier arcs of DBS, except Beerus of course?

Could RoF SSB Goku take all of them? would SS Rose Black be needed? or SSG Goku from BoG should be enough?
If there is any truth with Ssj Vegito (Buu Saga )>=<Ssj4 Goku (Baby Saga).

Then he alone could probably defeat great ape baby. With the team by his side. It’s almost certain. That said, I don’t know if he can beat Super 17. I know for sure that Vegito, Gohan, and Gotenks can beat some shadow dragons.

As for Super. I feel Vegito and Vegito alone can maybe defeat Final Form Frieza in Rof. After that? Nope. Won’t move past the base forms of any character past that saga.
The issue is its unclear if it's:

Buu Saga SS1 Vegito
Hypothetical SS3 Vegito
Hypothetical SS1 Vegito GT
Hypothetical SS3 Vegito GT

Because there are massive gaps between all four of those vegitos.

I rate the buu saga kids pre rosat a lot below others and they needed SS1s multiplier and fusions to equal ss3 Goku.
So I don't think base GT Vegito would be competitive.

However we then also have the fan theory that's super plausible based on events that fusion is as a strong as the fusees strongest shared/best form. Which explains bog Vegito being useless but ft and Broly fusion being useful. So get Vegito could be SS4 tier because Goku has SS4.

So again there's just too many variables....
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:57 am

The comparison with Vegito was to show how strong, or how much of a boost SS4 provides. And it was said it's like the boost SS fusion provides, so Z Super Vegito = Z SS4 Goku, and GT Super Vegito = GT SS4 Goku.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:02 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:37 pm
dragonball0900 wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:05 am
The Cell Jrs. were not Perfect Cell level. Cell stated that Goku was losing because he was tired. A fresh Goku would have beaten the Cell Jr. easily, since those were stated to rival Vegeta and Trunks. Goku was in a different league compared to them.

Buu Saga Piccolo would be somewhere above Trunks/Vegeta/Cell Jr. but below Goku/Gohan. His gains were simply not that big since he trained all by himself during a time of peace. Still, I would say going from being below Trunks, Vegeta and a Cell Jr. to surpassing all of them is a good achievement.
I remember reading that the Cell Jr's were Perfect Cell level, ludicrous as that may seem. If they're not though, they're not that far behind, probably stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell but weaker than Perfect. Goku would have fared better if he wasn't tired, but I'm not sure he'd have beaten them even at his best. In his fatigued state, he was getting whooped. Piccolo wasn't exactly doing well, but he wasn't getting massacred by them, either. Meanwhile, SSJ2 Gohan was shown annihilating them to show how far he had risen above them, and Perfect Cell (whom at SSJ2 he could have killed had he taken care of business).

So with all that being said, there isn't enough here for me to think Piccolo, assuming he had trained for 7 straight years (because what else does he do?) couldn't have at least gotten to FPSSJ level. Ofc there's nothing saying he did, either. I will say that's my MAX for him, though.
I think that was from a guidebook, but another guidebook statement says the Cell Jrs. only rivaled Vegeta and Trunks, which is what it is shown in the manga, since the Cell Jrs. were seem struggling a bit against them. We don't know how Piccolo fared against them, but it could be assumed that he did worse than Vegeta and Trunks given that Cell only mentioned the two saiyans being able to hold their own. However, we also know that he is the only one aside from the two seen standing, which means he was strong enough not to be laying on the ground like the others.

Goku losing against the Cell Jrs. was obviously because he was pretty much very tired and exhausted. Cell did say that was the only reason why Goku was losing. The Cell Jrs. could only fight on even terms with Vegeta and Trunks, which means someone like Goku would have defeated the Cell Jr. easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:39 am

....so can I post a hypothetical VS battle here? Or is there already one going on?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 am

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:39 am
....so can I post a hypothetical VS battle here? Or is there already one going on?
You’re in the right place
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:48 am

Bitchin'! Let's get started!

So, we have:

Hypothetical Ōzaru Goku post 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
Hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito (Boo arc)
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta
And a fresh Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku (manga, post Moro arc)

VERSUS!

Biggolo (a fresh Giant Piccolo post 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)
A fresh Super Boo (Gohan absorbed)
A fresh Omega Shenron
And a fresh Planet Moro

If both of these teams fought each other, who would come out as the last man standing? And could they be able to beat Whis? (After they are healed, or course)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:22 am

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:48 am
Bitchin'! Let's get started!

So, we have:

Hypothetical Ōzaru Goku post 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
Hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito (Boo arc)
Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta
And a fresh Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku (manga, post Moro arc)

VERSUS!

Biggolo (a fresh Giant Piccolo post 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)
A fresh Super Boo (Gohan absorbed)
A fresh Omega Shenron
And a fresh Planet Moro

If both of these teams fought each other, who would come out as the last man standing? And could they be able to beat Whis? (After they are healed, or course)
Team A stomps.
Actually, post- Moro arc UI Goku on his own fucks them all up, his previous iteration actually beat Planet Moro, this one would be a stronger one. The other three guys are nothing but fodder to UI Goku, specially post-Moro arc UI, one-shotting them is overkill.
Goku can take all of them while Gogeta and Vegito play around with Ohzaru Goku.

No, they can't take Whis, not even if Team A and B fought together. Only UI Goku would have a chance, and we've seen how easily Whis puts him down.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:20 pm

Videl (pigtails) vs Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai)
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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