The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Peach » Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:26 am

Black Frieza vs. Jiren

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:16 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:06 am
GatoF wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm 1. RoF SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta vs Saonel and Pirina (if the nameks win they face the U6 version of the saiyans with no Kaioken)
2. Golden Freeza (Broly) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero)
3. Orange Piccolo vs SSB Vegetto (Black)
4. SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Caulifla
5. Ikari Broly vs Android 17
1.- I think the Saiyans win this but with very high difficulty. The Namekians are definitely SSB tier but on the lower end since both couldn't defeat Ultimate Gohan fighting 2 vs 1.
2.- Gohan was a little stronger than the Gamma's who were said to be on par with Goku and Vegeta. I assume they are stronger than their Broly counterparts so Gohan should defeat this Freeza.
3.- Piccolo. I can't see SSB Vegetto from that arc stronger than 2nd UIO Goku so Piccolo beats him.
4.- I have the uncommon belief that Future Trunks actually ended his arc a lot stronger than Goku and Vegeta so he beats Caulifla with some difficulty.
5.- Both are on par (Around 80%) with SSB Goku on their respective arcs so Broly should take this (With some difficulty) since he fought a stronger Goku.
What if was Kale instead of Caulifla?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:22 pm

GatoF wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:16 pm What if was Kale instead of Caulifla?
Kale is SSG tier. She would kill SS2 Future Trunks very easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:27 am

GatoF wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm 1. RoF SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta vs Saonel and Pirina (if the nameks win they face the U6 version of the saiyans with no Kaioken)
2. Golden Freeza (Broly) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero)
3. Orange Piccolo vs SSB Vegetto (Black)
4. SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Caulifla
5. Ikari Broly vs Android 17
1. The saiyans
2. Probably Frieza in a decent fight, it's hard to say
3. Vegito stomps if you use manga logic. Anime only is harder to say, but I still feel like Vegito should win.
4. Probably Trunks, but in a good fight. I think surviving against Black so long will pay off.
5. 17 due to unlimited stamina

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:52 am

Peach wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:26 am Black Frieza vs. Jiren
Black Frieza already one shot two characters stronger than Jiren at the same time, and a third even stronger than those two.

Moro was confirmed the strongest Goku faced. Goku surpassed him. Goku was weaker than Granolah. Ultra Ego Vegito surpassed Granolah. Goku caught up. All of them were weaker than Gas. Frieza is above Gas. Jiren has been outclassed

Jiren<Moro<Goku/Vegeta/Granolah<Gas<Frieza

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:10 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:09 pm Cell Max vs SS4 Gogeta, Omega Shenron, SS3 Gotenks, Majuubhan(Gohan fused with Uub), SS Pan.
(can they managed to do what the Gammas, Fatenks, 18, Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan did?

Completed Cell Max vs SS4 Gogeta, Omega, SS4 Gotenks, Ultimate Majuubhan and SS3 Pan.
I think Cell Max wins both rounds. Even SSJ4 Gogeta should peaks at SSJG level, and the guidebooks call him the strongest warrior in all dimensions, so I don’t think anyone on the team surpasses him.

If we go by Heroes and say SSJ4 Goku ~ SSJB Goku, then Gogeta solos.
GatoF wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm 1. RoF SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta vs Saonel and Pirina (if the nameks win they face the U6 version of the saiyans with no Kaioken)
2. Golden Freeza (Broly) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero)
3. Orange Piccolo vs SSB Vegetto (Black)
4. SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Caulifla
5. Ikari Broly vs Android 17
The two Namekians together had Gohan on his toes. I think either one can solo the SSJBs.

Golden Freeza might be a lot stronger than SSJBs given the Broly novelization says he could fight back a tiny bit. I think he’s definitely stronger than this Gohan.

Even Ultimate Piccolo takes this. Ultimate Piccolo is SSJB level, and by the later half of the ToP Goku could fight evenly with a suppressed Jiren without Kaio-Ken or UI. This is the same Jiren that glared back a Genki-Dama stronger than the one that killed Merged Zamasu.

Probably Trunks. I don’t think Caulifla is anywhere near SSJB from a couple sagas earlier.

Broly seemed to be at a serious skill disvantage against Goku, so 17 can pull it off.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:01 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm
The two Namekians together had Gohan on his toes. I think either one can solo the SSJBs.

Golden Freeza might be a lot stronger than SSJBs given the Broly novelization says he could fight back a tiny bit. I think he’s definitely stronger than this Gohan.

Even Ultimate Piccolo takes this. Ultimate Piccolo is SSJB level, and by the later half of the ToP Goku could fight evenly with a suppressed Jiren without Kaio-Ken or UI. This is the same Jiren that glared back a Genki-Dama stronger than the one that killed Merged Zamasu.

Probably Trunks. I don’t think Caulifla is anywhere near SSJB from a couple sagas earlier.

Broly seemed to be at a serious skill disvantage against Goku, so 17 can pull it off.
Where was it stated the genki dama used on Giren was stronger than Trunk's sword of hope? And do we really know if the sword of hope is stronger than Jiren? And wasn't it later stated Jiren was more suppressed against SSB Vegeta and Goku than he was against the initial fight with Goku?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 am

dragon boss z wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:01 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm
The two Namekians together had Gohan on his toes. I think either one can solo the SSJBs.

Golden Freeza might be a lot stronger than SSJBs given the Broly novelization says he could fight back a tiny bit. I think he’s definitely stronger than this Gohan.

Even Ultimate Piccolo takes this. Ultimate Piccolo is SSJB level, and by the later half of the ToP Goku could fight evenly with a suppressed Jiren without Kaio-Ken or UI. This is the same Jiren that glared back a Genki-Dama stronger than the one that killed Merged Zamasu.

Probably Trunks. I don’t think Caulifla is anywhere near SSJB from a couple sagas earlier.

Broly seemed to be at a serious skill disvantage against Goku, so 17 can pull it off.
Where was it stated the genki dama used on Giren was stronger than Trunk's sword of hope? And do we really know if the sword of hope is stronger than Jiren? And wasn't it later stated Jiren was more suppressed against SSB Vegeta and Goku than he was against the initial fight with Goku?
It's inferred based on the fact the U7 Genkidama was comprised of genki from the strongest fighters and was commanded by Kaioken x20 Blue Goku who is much stronger than Trunks was. Vegeta also stated that Jiren's power in Episode 122 was the greatest he ever felt which naturally exceeds the power Jiren used in Episode 110 as well as Super Saiyan 2 Kefla's. The reason why Vegeta compared Jiren's performance to when Jiren fought Goku was to taunt Jiren, most likely. Vegeta wanted to push Jiren to fight even harder so he could push past his limits and awaken Ultra Instinct. Whis even says as much when Vegeta pushes on against Jiren.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Galan007 » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:01 am

GatoF wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm 5. Ikari Broly vs Android 17
Broly should have the overall power advantage, though #17 is arguably close enough to his level to put up a great fight -- especially with his superior fighting skills, haxx durability/shielding, and infinite stamina.

Could potentially go either way, but I think Broly might edge him out in the end... Primarily because he was nearly a peer of what would have logically been a more powerful/zenkai'd version of SSB Goku(post-ToP.)
Peach wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:26 am Black Frieza vs. Jiren
Black Freeza literally finger-flicks. He already decimated three characters who were far beyond Jiren, with ease.

Jiren-wank aside, his level of power(during the ToP, at least) is no longer all that relevant in the current story. Broly(possibly/likely?) surpassed it. Moro-73 surpassed it. UI Goku surpassed it. UE Vegeta surpassed it. Granolah surpassed it. Gas surpassed it. And of course, Black Freeza surpassed them all.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:40 pm

Peach wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:26 am Black Frieza vs. Jiren
By now this fight is so uneven that Daishinkan arrests Freeza for murder. Freeza can make Jiren kneel down and bark for him.

If Black Freeza is Super Vegito and Gas was Buuhan, TUI and UE would be like Buutenks and Ultimate Gohan. Granola would be Buff Buu.
AngelMoro would be Gotenks, Moro73 would be Super Buu, and Jiren and Broly would be like SS3 Goku and Kid Buu.

So, it would be SS3 Goku vs Super Vegito. Actually, it might be like SS2 Vegito, considering how casual it was for Freeza.

GatoF wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 pm 1. RoF SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta vs Saonel and Pirina (if the nameks win they face the U6 version of the saiyans with no Kaioken)
2. Golden Freeza (Broly) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero)
3. Orange Piccolo vs SSB Vegetto (Black)
4. SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Caulifla
5. Ikari Broly vs Android 17
1. The saiyans. The namekians failed to eliminate Piccolo and a guy that was outclassed by a real SSB tier fighter. I doubt the powercreep was that big for the namekians to be able to beat the first SSGSS.

2. Gohan should win this one. The Gammas were actually stronger than initially thought, which was around Goku and Vegeta's power. Meaning they might be around Freeza or even beyond, and Gohan was ahead of Gamma 1.

3. I'm thinking Orenji is on his way to 3rd Sign level, quite ahead of anything from prior arcs.

4. Manga Trunks destroys, he can amp it up to SS3 level.
In the anime, the fight is much closer, but he should take it, Caulifla struggled with a tired base Goku, while Trunks forced him into going SS3. If anything, Trunks' expertise tilts the scale.

5. I think Broly was closer to SSB Goku than 17 was to Toppo. It is still an even fight, 17 doesn't get tired, isn't that outclassed, and he isn't as conceited as he was in Z. Seems to be a gap that could be worked around with skills and brains.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Wrigglything » Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:27 am

Base Goku end of Granolah vs Super Vegito during the Boo saga

Is there any chance of Goku beating them or would he have to turn super just to compete? Or would Vegito still get the upper hand either way?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:12 am

Wrigglything wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:27 am Base Goku end of Granolah vs Super Vegito during the Boo saga

Is there any chance of Goku beating them or would he have to turn super just to compete? Or would Vegito still get the upper hand either way?
The base saiyans in the manga, where the Granolah arc only takes place, do not have the level of anime wank. The highest possible feat goku has is ss2 tier as he isn't affected like Shin by the elephant gods noise. Base vegito is minimum ss3 goku level, he slaughters any base saiyan.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:52 pm

Wrigglything wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:27 am Base Goku end of Granolah vs Super Vegito during the Boo saga

Is there any chance of Goku beating them or would he have to turn super just to compete? Or would Vegito still get the upper hand either way?
I don't think he's there yet.
In the FT arc, he's been implied to be somewhat above his Buu arc self, later he is shown withstanding a roar that took out Shin, whatever that means in terms of power, and then he gets two huge and unclear boosts in the Moro and Granny arc.
Without nitpicking too much, you could have his base form around or above a Buu arc SS2. Higher than that could be possible, I guess, but lesser than that could also be possible, too.
With Goku using UI in his base form in such a way that he can scale to his next form, then he might be able to perform as a Z SS3 Goku. He might be able to force base Vegito into SS, but I don't think he can win without going SS.

If it's SS+UI Goku vs Super Vegito, my money is on Goku. With regular SS he might not be able to win, though he should put up a better fight than Buuhan.

*Out-of-universe, and probably an outdated concept: by EoZ he fights Kid Buu's reincarnation in his base form, so you could take from it that eventually Goku's base form caps at Z SS3 (if Uub was already as strong-when mad- as Buu). Since Uub's been boosted up, that might not be a thing anymore.
In those interviews with his editors, a good question for Toyo would be just how fucking strong are the saiyans in base by now?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:22 pm

Peach wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:26 am Black Frieza vs. Jiren
(This isn't directed towards you at all, just the dragon ball community)

Jiren may be the most overrated character in DB history. At this point, the T.O.P. is mid tier in terms of power. The Moro arc introduced a lot of power boosts of all characters, and then with super hero and the granolah arc, the power creep has been CRAZY

yet still, people think Jiren is top tier. I see people say Jiren could beat Broly, Moro, granolah, Ultra Ego, Beast Gohan, etc and it's confusing to me

Black Frieza >>>True UI>Ultra Ego>=Moro Arc UI>>>Moro>UI Omen (Moro arc, post training with Merus)>Jiren

Any of the main characters in the granolah arc could one shot Jiren. Now, jiren may be training, he may be way more powerful for all we know. But we have no way of gauging his power, so we have to use his latest appearance, the T.O.P. which has been powercreeped to hell.

Black Frieza could beat Jiren the way Jiren beat SSB Goku

Again this isn't directed at you, I appreciate the question. I'm just addressing the YouTube commenters that swear Jiren is top tier in the current power scale

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Seekeroftruth » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:18 pm

Raiden Shogun
Image

https://youtu.be/hQ5GEOlwLUQ

vs

SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta
Image

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:50 pm

Super Gogeta vs Super Buu

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:27 am

FeatsofPower wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:50 pm Super Gogeta vs Super Buu
Goku seems to think a fusion equivalent using Super Saiyan would be able to defeat Buutenks and Elder Kaioshin didn't disagree. I'd say Super Gogeta takes this.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:15 am

Goku9001 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:27 am Goku seems to think a fusion equivalent using Super Saiyan would be able to defeat Buutenks and Elder Kaioshin didn't disagree. I'd say Super Gogeta takes this.
Awesome!

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:55 am

FeatsofPower wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:50 pm Super Gogeta vs Super Buu
Should be the same as Super Vegito. Back then that rival boost thing was in play, so I guess he is performing somewhat below Super Vegito. Still, enough to destroy Buuhan -maybe without much leeway or playing around- and Super Buu, as well.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:09 am

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:55 am Should be the same as Super Vegito. Back then that rival boost thing was in play, so I guess he is performing somewhat below Super Vegito. Still, enough to destroy Buuhan -maybe without much leeway or playing around- and Super Buu, as well.
The reason Gogeta is an equal trump card to Vegetto nowadays is because Vegeta is equal with Goku. In the Buu Saga, Goku was far stronger.

Vegetto getting a rivals boost means Gogeta gets one too.

Buu Saga Vegetto > Buu Saga Gogeta should still remain.

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