The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm

Champa The Destroyer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:53 am
ZombieVito wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:29 pm
GatoF wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:33 pm Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero) vs SSJBKkx20 Goku (Pre-ToP)

Is Gohan one shotted again or can he put up a fight this time?
Goku dials back to regular Kaioken and one shots him.
How do you have Ultimate Gohan in Superhero compared to in the ToP? I know Gohan didn't really train but considering his parity with the Gammas, I think he seems quite a lot stronger than in the ToP. Whereas this Goku is way weaker than the one compared to the Gammas, as this is before the ToP (goku gained a ton of power throughout the tournament)

So I feel like if SSBKKx2 could one-shot Gohan then that would imply that Superhero Goku in normal SSB could do the same, as goku more than doubled in power since before the tournament

I respect your opinion though I just respectfully disagree
That's the thing. I see no reason to believe Goku grew in power on his regular forms during the ToP.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:23 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:14 pm Who is the weakest character in Super that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta with infinite fusion time?

Who is the strongest character in Z that Krillin & Roshi from the ToP anime together could beat?
Gogeta's at least beating RoF Golden Freeza, that's for sure to me. Maybe he'd stop at Improved Hit or Scythe Goku Black in the anime, but I can see him going as far as Jiren in the manga.

Skills included I think either one could solo Namek Freeza. Together and without Mafuba? Maybe Yardrat Goku or one of the fake Androids individually. Don't think they can beat 19 and 20 together, specially not post absorptions.
ZombieVito wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm That's the thing. I see no reason to believe Goku grew in power on his regular forms during the ToP.
I used to think Goku got dozens of times stronger in the ToP, but with SH explaining Jiren isn't that strong now those segments with Goku and co. fighting him without UI aren't so outlandish anymore. It's still stated word for word his power was rising as he fought Caulifla and Kefla, but I don't think it has to be by much. Against Kefla he might just have been slowly revealing his FP to save stamina. Overall I think between the start of the ToP and the events of Super Hero a 2-3x difference is more than enough.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:26 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:23 pm I used to think Goku got dozens of times stronger in the ToP, but with SH explaining Jiren isn't that strong now those segments with Goku and co. fighting him without UI aren't so outlandish anymore. It's still stated word for word his power was rising as he fought Caulifla and Kefla, but I don't think it has to be by much. Against Kefla he might just have been slowly revealing his FP to save stamina. Overall I think between the start of the ToP and the events of Super Hero a 2-3x difference is more than enough.
Goku was recovering stamina by fighting the U6 girls.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:30 am

GT Pan takes on the Z Movie Villain, gauntlet-style (heals after every match), where does she stop?
Had this in mind as Cooler appeared in GT, so these are quite probable matchups.

For fairness sake let's also make Garlic Jr. mortal here.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by XenoSaiyan » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:24 am

ZombieVito wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm
Champa The Destroyer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:53 am
ZombieVito wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:29 pm
Goku dials back to regular Kaioken and one shots him.
How do you have Ultimate Gohan in Superhero compared to in the ToP? I know Gohan didn't really train but considering his parity with the Gammas, I think he seems quite a lot stronger than in the ToP. Whereas this Goku is way weaker than the one compared to the Gammas, as this is before the ToP (goku gained a ton of power throughout the tournament)

So I feel like if SSBKKx2 could one-shot Gohan then that would imply that Superhero Goku in normal SSB could do the same, as goku more than doubled in power since before the tournament

I respect your opinion though I just respectfully disagree
That's the thing. I see no reason to believe Goku grew in power on his regular forms during the ToP.
There's plenty of reasons based on feats and statements, especially in the anime.

SSJ1 Kefla was stated to be equal to the U7 Spirit Bomb, which itself was much stronger than SSB Kaioken x20 Goku was when he fought Jiren in episode 109. Yet a fatigued Goku in just normal SSB was able to somewhat hold his own against SSJ1 Kefla, which shouldn't be possible if Goku and Vegeta didn't get any powerboosts outside of New transformations in the ToP.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:23 am

The way I see it is that this would be a reference to Kaioken x20 Blue Goku and Blue Evolved Vegeta reaching a level only slightly below Jiren towards the end of the Tournament of Power where they were constantly breaking their limits.

I don't think Super Hero perfectly aligns with the anime or manga so naturally, the power implications about Jiren in the anime don't really make sense.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 am

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:11 pm SSJ4 being = to SSB in power/multiplier doesn't necessarily mean that GT = Super in power.
Not to mention that only applies to Super Dragon Ball Heroes and not GT itself
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:17 am

That does not apply to Dragon Ball Heroes, though.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:39 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:24 am
ZombieVito wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm
Champa The Destroyer wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:53 am

How do you have Ultimate Gohan in Superhero compared to in the ToP? I know Gohan didn't really train but considering his parity with the Gammas, I think he seems quite a lot stronger than in the ToP. Whereas this Goku is way weaker than the one compared to the Gammas, as this is before the ToP (goku gained a ton of power throughout the tournament)

So I feel like if SSBKKx2 could one-shot Gohan then that would imply that Superhero Goku in normal SSB could do the same, as goku more than doubled in power since before the tournament

I respect your opinion though I just respectfully disagree
That's the thing. I see no reason to believe Goku grew in power on his regular forms during the ToP.
There's plenty of reasons based on feats and statements, especially in the anime.

SSJ1 Kefla was stated to be equal to the U7 Spirit Bomb, which itself was much stronger than SSB Kaioken x20 Goku was when he fought Jiren in episode 109. Yet a fatigued Goku in just normal SSB was able to somewhat hold his own against SSJ1 Kefla, which shouldn't be possible if Goku and Vegeta didn't get any powerboosts outside of New transformations in the ToP.
No, I'm sorry but there's not a single statement that says Blue Goku grew dozens of times stronger during the ToP.

That Kefla statement was made after she K.O. Goku while he used Blue with Kaioken x 20.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:43 am

I think the evidence is in the fact that Blue Vegeta's Final Flash surpassed Kaioken x20 Blue Goku's Genkidama by the time they fought against Jiren. With U6 Tournament as an exception, the Saiyans grew at least 10x stronger each arc. The notion that Goku had grown at least 10x stronger let alone tens of times stronger during the tournament shouldn't really come as a shock.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by XenoSaiyan » Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:58 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:39 pm
XenoSaiyan wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:24 am
ZombieVito wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:47 pm
That's the thing. I see no reason to believe Goku grew in power on his regular forms during the ToP.
There's plenty of reasons based on feats and statements, especially in the anime.

SSJ1 Kefla was stated to be equal to the U7 Spirit Bomb, which itself was much stronger than SSB Kaioken x20 Goku was when he fought Jiren in episode 109. Yet a fatigued Goku in just normal SSB was able to somewhat hold his own against SSJ1 Kefla, which shouldn't be possible if Goku and Vegeta didn't get any powerboosts outside of New transformations in the ToP.
No, I'm sorry but there's not a single statement that says Blue Goku grew dozens of times stronger during the ToP.

That Kefla statement was made after she K.O. Goku while he used Blue with Kaioken x 20.
That would still prove me right based on on-screen feats.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:31 am

Looking at the fight, everybody talks like Goku could beat Kefla if he had the stamina even though she’s Genki-Dama level. Whis even said their fight could go either way.

Goku and Kefla also said they’d be going all out right off the bat when they transform, so their Ki increasing as they fight isn’t them just getting serious.

I’m not sure if Goku and Caulifla got stronger in their fight though. They make a strong point about Goku’s fighting sense giving him the upperhand and Caulifla closing that gap to keep up.
Xeogran wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:30 am GT Pan takes on the Z Movie Villain, gauntlet-style (heals after every match), where does she stop?
Had this in mind as Cooler appeared in GT, so these are quite probable matchups.

For fairness sake let's also make Garlic Jr. mortal here.
Early on I think Z SSJ2-SSJ3 level is good for Pan. She didn’t have any feats in the Dark DBs Saga, but Trunks not including her. In the Baby Saga Trunks suggests Pan is stronger than him, and she lands a solid kick on General Rildo’s face. She’s destroying everyone up to M10 Broly, but I don’t think she has the power or the wits for Janemba and Hirudegarn. They’re too powerful and have their weird abilities to boot.

By the end of GT was very powerful and she seems on pair with Base Goku when they fight Liu Xing Long. If Goku wasn’t holding back and her power is genuine, then she might beat Hirudegarn. Not even touching Bills or Golden Freeza though.

Garlic Jr doesn’t even have to be mortal since he always manages to fall in the Dead Zone somehow lol
Goku9001 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:43 am I think the evidence is in the fact that Blue Vegeta's Final Flash surpassed Kaioken x20 Blue Goku's Genkidama by the time they fought against Jiren. With U6 Tournament as an exception, the Saiyans grew at least 10x stronger each arc. The notion that Goku had grown at least 10x stronger let alone tens of times stronger during the tournament shouldn't really come as a shock.
Goku did get 10x stronger with the Kaio-Ken vs Hit. I was trying to downplay Goku’s ToP power up to just a couple times, but it does make sense that he’d get 10x stronger every saga.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by XenoSaiyan » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am

Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:32 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?
1) Gohan and Piccolo have fun killing all those Saibaimen.
2) Very close fight but Piccolo wins thanks to the advantage of having 2 arms.
3) Cabba powers down to Super Saiyan and finger flicks his master.
4) Base Goku from RoF.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Peach » Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:16 am

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?
Gohan and Piccolo

Gohan

Cabba with moderate difficulty

That multiplier would give Cell a similar multiplier to Super Saiyan 3 Goku. So, he could probably beat Majin Vegeta and be on par with Fat Buu and Grey Buu. I think he would still be below SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu though.

Hero wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:00 am 1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest :lol:
1. Goku.

2. Goku

3, Gohan with high difficulty

4. Cell

5. Cell. Piccolo was struggling with a Frieza henchman in the next arc.

6. If this is before he absorbed God Ki into his base, then he could beat Goten or Trunks. If this is after he absorbs God ki into his base, then he could beat literally every character from the Buu arc, including fusions and buu absorption forms.

7. The Angels

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hero » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:04 am

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?
1. Usually, a high enough power advantage means you can beat weaker enemies even if they insanely outnumber you. Imagine Namek Frieza vs 100 billion normal earthlings. Frieza wins and can never get hurt. So Gohan Piccolo dominate. The RoF movie was a weird exception, though an interview showed why. Apparently, when making the movie, Toriyama or other people involved saw some real fights and realized stamina is a big factor in real life combat.

2. Piccolo has this assuming we go with SSJ2 being a 2x multiple which I hate

3. No clue. Haven't caught up there yet.

4. Completely depends on people's numbers. I go with base saiyans < Namek Frieza until Goku absorbs God ki, so my numbers are low. I have KKx100 Super Perfect Cell beating SSJ Vegito (Buu) and a hypothetical SSJ Vegito (BoG) pre-God ki. SSJ2 Vegito wipes him out, though.
...


New Ones: Goku is able to mix kaioken with SSJ starting in the Buu saga. And let's say other people can use it too.

1. SSJ KKx10 Goku (Buu Saga)

2. SSJ KKx20 Goku (Buu Saga)

3. SSJ KKx10 Goku (BoG)

4. SSJ KKx20 Goku (BoG)

5. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx10

6. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx20



Who's the strongest person each can beat? I have...

1. Ties with Super Buu. Wins in a grueling battle.

2. Ties with Buutenks. Loses due to Buu having Piccolo's brain.

3. Beats Super Buu but with high difficulty

4. Beats Buutenks but with extremely high difficulty

5. Beats SSJ Vegito but with difficulty

6. Beats SSJ2 Vegito but with difficulty

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:24 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?
1) One simple ki blast from either of them should obliterate 10 billion Nappas. Saibamen stand no chance.

2) The androids confessed they were only using half their power IIRC. So a SS2 Gohan would be as strong as FP Android 17. And Present androids are even stronger, so they would be stronger than SS2 Gohan, while Kamiccolo was on par with 17. Kamiccolo wins.

3) I don't think Geets got that much stronger, and this is before his two big power boosts post-ToP. Cabba should be too much.

4) If SS3 is 4x SS2, and SPC was around that tier, then he'd be 25x stronger than SS3 Goku. If SS Vegito is 50x SS3 Goku, then he'd be strong enough to at least stand up to Buuhan, who might've been 2x weaker than Vegito.
Hero wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:04 am
New Ones: Goku is able to mix kaioken with SSJ starting in the Buu saga. And let's say other people can use it too.

1. SSJ KKx10 Goku (Buu Saga)

2. SSJ KKx20 Goku (Buu Saga)

3. SSJ KKx10 Goku (BoG)

4. SSJ KKx20 Goku (BoG)

5. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx10

6. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx20
1) SS3 is believed to be 8x SS, so with a 10x boost, he'd be above his SS3 self. I think he defeats Kid Buu with authority, beats him like he beat Fat Buu. Puts up a helluva fight vs Super Buu, but the infinite regen tilts the scale in Buu's favour. With SS2 Vegeta's assistance they can win.

2) Now he clears Super Buu, Gotenks, Gohan and Buutenks. Probably can make Buuhan use many techniques, but I don't think he can beat him.

3) Has the edge, now, vs Super Buu. Still far from Buutenks.

4) I still see him losing to Buuhan, but making Buuhan actually sweat for it.

5) Trashes Buutenks, trashes Buuhan, but he stops at Super Vegito.

6) Probably above Super Vegito, not by much though.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by XenoSaiyan » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:12 pm

Base Vegito (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (GT 17 arc)

SSG Gogeta (Moro arc) vs UI Omen Goku (ep. 129)

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Broly (Enraged, Superhero) vs Hit & Android 17 (both ToP anime)

SSJ2 Goku (start of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (U6 arc)

And if Kefla had access to UI Omen, who's the strongest character that she could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:49 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:12 pm Base Vegito (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (GT 17 arc)

SSG Gogeta (Moro arc) vs UI Omen Goku (ep. 129)

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Broly (Enraged, Superhero) vs Hit & Android 17 (both ToP anime)

SSJ2 Goku (start of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (U6 arc)

And if Kefla had access to UI Omen, who's the strongest character that she could beat?
1) Goku I guess.
2) Goku finger flicks Gogeta.
3) Gohan.
4) Broly would need to turn Ikari to beat them.
5) U6 arc Goku powers down to SS3 and one shots his future self.
6) I have no idea. Black Freeza?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:34 pm

XenoSaiyan wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:18 am Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo vs 10 Billion Saibamen

Kamicollo vs SSJ2 Future Gohan

Base Vegeta (Early Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Cabba

If Super Perfect Cell had access to Kaioken x100, who's the strongest character that he could beat?
Gohan and Piccolo, but this many guys ought to get them pretty tired.

Both are a 2x boost, so Piccolo wins since he's stronger than SSJ1 Gohan before merging with Kami.

Cabba. Vegeta still hasn't grown that much stronger since the ToP.

Probably SSJG Goku from BoGs.
Hero wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:04 am [New Ones: Goku is able to mix kaioken with SSJ starting in the Buu saga. And let's say other people can use it too.

1. SSJ KKx10 Goku (Buu Saga)

2. SSJ KKx20 Goku (Buu Saga)

3. SSJ KKx10 Goku (BoG)

4. SSJ KKx20 Goku (BoG)

5. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx10

6. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) KKx20



Who's the strongest person each can beat? I have...

1. Ties with Super Buu. Wins in a grueling battle.

2. Ties with Buutenks. Loses due to Buu having Piccolo's brain.

3. Beats Super Buu but with high difficulty

4. Beats Buutenks but with extremely high difficulty

5. Beats SSJ Vegito but with difficulty

6. Beats SSJ2 Vegito but with difficulty
1. He's just a bit stronger than his SSJ3 power here, so best he can do is beat Pure Boo. How to you have Super Boo just this little above SSJ3 Goku?

2. He's beating Super Boo and SSJ3 Gotenks pretty easily, but is a dead even match with Gohan. I'll call it a tie because even their weaknesses even each other out: Goku has Kaio-Ken strain, Gohan has his arrogance.

3. I have Goku getting almost twice as strong by BoGs (60 to 100mil), so this Goku still beats Gotenks and Boo but loses to Gohan in a much more one sided fight.

4. He's just ahead of Gohan-Boo now. I think Goku can take this if he plays it smart, but it's very possible he's losing due to stamina and regeneration.

5. I'm not sure if a 10x gap is enough to even reach the god levels, but Gohan is beating the crap out of Boo Saga SSJ3 Vegetto here.

6. Same but with BoGs Vegetto.
XenoSaiyan wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:12 pm Base Vegito (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (GT 17 arc)

SSG Gogeta (Moro arc) vs UI Omen Goku (ep. 129)

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs Merged Zamasu (Manga, no immortality)

Base Broly (Enraged, Superhero) vs Hit & Android 17 (both ToP anime)

SSJ2 Goku (start of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (U6 arc)

And if Kefla had access to UI Omen, who's the strongest character that she could beat?
Goku was at least on Vegetto's level as early as M2, fighting Rildo who was "even stronger than Boo" and all. Super 17 Saga Goku might even handle Super Vegetto by this point.

This is a tough one. End of Moro Saga it's definitely Gogeta, that I'm very sure.

Even if by enraged you mean Ikari, Hit and 17 are two of the smartest fighters in the series and alone might take on Broly. I don't think SH Broly is any better than Debut Broly since he hasn't even trained enough to master his anger, so he's at the same level SSJB Goku was beating him in the movie.

Probably SSJ2 Goku.

Hm... She'd be a beast, I can say this much. If her SSJ1 was SSJB level, and her SSJ2 was UI Sign level... Her SSJ3 would be MUI level, SSJG and Blue might be getting to Angel level. With UI Sign even the Daishinkan will have some trouble with her.
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