How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

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How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Wrigglything » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:18 am

That has been a question that may have flown subconsciously but has rarely been addressed in official media as a whole. Of course, the Shadow Dragons arc put their frequent usage of the Dragon Ball's into question, and the whole reason the Goku Black/Future Trunks arc happened, as well as the Tournament of Power arc, were due to the actions of Goku, of which there were dire consequences whether it be towards them directly or to others unrelated to them or even their universe.

But on the other hand it's no secret that they have also done some things that did help those around them and benefitted those who lived on Earth or even the universe. After all, Goku did stop King/Daimao Piccolo and Jr. from taking over the world, defeated an indestructible creature that even the gods struggle to contain, and those are just the events that happened in the original run. Clearly, they do not want to just idly stand by and let their enemies take advantage of innocent lives. Yet, their morals, even if not directly challenged, sometimes seemed a little bit aloof from what the average person would react. For example, the Dragon Team still wanted to improve themselves by fighting the Androids and surpassing their limits, despite a literal byproduct of their actions being proof that things went south.

So how heroic do you think the Dragon Team are? Are they too passive towards the enemies at times, or do you think it makes them more interesting compared to other media similar to Dragon Ball? I personally think that the original had it in a way where you at least understand where they come from, even if their decisions would not always be the most sensible. Super is where I feel it starts to go too far, but even then the heroes usually find a way to stop the situation from getting worse, and that sometimes there might no be a better way of handling them anyway. At least I think I guess.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Lionel » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:39 pm

Fundamentally I think most of the Z-Warriors are good natured with a predilection towards stymieing evil and defending civilians. Having said that, we've seen various times that they're not above jeopardising the safety and security of those very people for their own personal gratification or because of the misguided notion that their enemies can change. Several times the latter has happened, true, but we've seen how in the cases of Freeza and arguably 'Good' Buu that they can create liabilities too. Safety doesn't supersede the desires of the Z-Warriors to challenge themselves in battle.

For better or worse the Z-Warriors are the best and only hope that Earth has. Mr Satan is a false idol who deceptively claims prestige on the accomplishments of those warriors but we know that at its core the man wouldn't be able to defend the planet sans the extraordinary condition of befriending an impressionable childlike being and gleaning from his reputation to have Goku's Spirit Bomb supplied with the genki of the population.

I would say that of the group Gohan is perhaps the most 'heroic' in the traditional sense because he altruistically fights criminals to better society. The man has even taken up an identity hearkening to the super hero cliche. We also see how Krillin has become a police officer trying to enforce the law but that's with your garden variety criminal. Against any apocalyptic menace he melts and it's left up to Goku and Vegeta to save the day. Most of the others are career martial artists or a de-facto mercenary driven by personal interest, be it their desire for fights or reward in the case of the cyborg twins.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:22 pm

I agree with Lionel’s take.
Some of them are much more heroic than others. But even then, those who aren’t like that, they usually let the ball bounce once believing that they can prevent the bomb from going off. It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that they feel they can deal with it. It’s like not studying for an exam because they believe they can pass it without studying, not because they don’t care.
And I do prefer this much more human take rather than the usual hero with crazy moral standards that are impracticable in the real world and could only end in worse situations.

Also, DBS didn’t have many situations were the characters were assholes regarding a threat. I can only think of Goku giving a senzu to Moro, but that was under control, the issue that developed later was unrelated to that. I mean, that's nothing new.
Actually they are much more practical when it comes to solving a situation in DBS, putting behind their issues, they have fused twice and fought in teams vs Jiren, Broly, and vs Gas and Black Freeza, too. Their hubris is much more controlled now.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:51 pm

If any of the crew witnessed a mugging, they would step in to help. If they become privy to anything that would jepeodize the safety of the planet, they would do what they can to stop it. If someone's pet was stuck in a situation, they would help. Or help an elderly person cross the street. They would help evac a building on fire, and put it out.

The only real time they've potentially added to the threat, is Goku letting Vegeta escape, Goku allowing Freeza to power up, then letting him go. The crew not listening to Bulma and using the dragonballs to pre-stop Gero. Vegeta letting Cell become perfect. And underestimating the threat of Buu and adding to his release.
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:39 am

Each has literally given their lives to protect the Earth.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Wrigglything » Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:32 am

Lionel wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:39 pm I would say that of the group Gohan is perhaps the most 'heroic' in the traditional sense because he altruistically fights criminals to better society. The man has even taken up an identity hearkening to the super hero cliche.
The funny thing is i originally thought that Gohan was the more traditionally heroic out of the lot too, though its something that got lost in my train of thought. It probably was due to his turbulent childhood, and come the end of the Cell arc he likely would have contemplated and likely thought more about his future more than the average Dragon Team member, though that's because he was a kid and was raised in a more conventional upbringing (well, as normal an upbringing as one could have in his family's livelihood anyway) whereas others were already adults or at least were verging on becoming one.

But I think it's just the fact he hasn't done a lot compared to the others, especially in later media.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:10 am

We all know Goku ultimately is not a hero.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:45 pm

Seekeroftruth wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:10 am We all know Goku ultimately is not a hero.
He may not actively go out in search of heroic deeds, but's he's stil heroic.
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:58 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:45 pm
Seekeroftruth wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:10 am We all know Goku ultimately is not a hero.
He may not actively go out in search of heroic deeds, but's he's stil heroic.
He's so "heroic" that he casually fist-bumps a psychotic kid who literally erased trillions of innocent lives for fun.

It's surreal that the only character in the franchise who (rightfully) has a problem with Zeno is Hearts from SDB:Heroes.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:56 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:58 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:45 pm
Seekeroftruth wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:10 am We all know Goku ultimately is not a hero.
He may not actively go out in search of heroic deeds, but's he's stil heroic.
He's so "heroic" that he casually fist-bumps a psychotic kid who literally erased trillions of innocent lives for fun.

It's surreal that the only character in the franchise who (rightfully) has a problem with Zeno is Hearts from SDB:Heroes.
That "psychotic kid"'s job is to create and destroy at will. Do you not jump for joy when an exterminator clears out your house? Or a doctor eliminates whatever is ailing you? Or you eat your food?
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:03 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:56 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:58 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:45 pm

He may not actively go out in search of heroic deeds, but's he's stil heroic.
He's so "heroic" that he casually fist-bumps a psychotic kid who literally erased trillions of innocent lives for fun.

It's surreal that the only character in the franchise who (rightfully) has a problem with Zeno is Hearts from SDB:Heroes.
That "psychotic kid"'s job is to create and destroy at will.
Eh? That's headcanon. That's the job of the Destroyers and the Angels. We don't know what Zeno's job is, but we do know that the only reason why he erased six universes full of innocent lives is because he felt bored one day/threw a temper tantrum for fun.
Do you not jump for joy when an exterminator clears out your house? Or a doctor eliminates whatever is ailing you? Or you eat your food?
So why did people get mad when Zamasu killed mortals under that logic?

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Trouser » Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:46 pm

They aren't. Most of them are selfish people.

Heroic character? Future Trunks. He's the most heroic character in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. Future Trunks always wanted to make the best decision for everyone.

Gohan is second, he wanted to help people as the Great Saiyaman and he cared about nature and peace.
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:47 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:03 pm

So why did people get mad when Zamasu killed mortals under that logic?
I didn't get mad. We are terrible and should all be wiped away for our own good. Did anyone actually counter his argue successfully, beyond "But life is important"?
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:38 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:47 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:03 pm

So why did people get mad when Zamasu killed mortals under that logic?
I didn't get mad. We are terrible and should all be wiped away for our own good. Did anyone actually counter his argue successfully, beyond "But life is important"?
Well, I wasn't necessarily referring to you.

But the people in-universe (Goku and friends) are very hypocritical. They cry and cry about Zamasu (or any other villain for that matter really) killing many innocents, but then they don't care about the horrors Zeno's committed literally just for fun.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Ashur » Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:52 am

i'd say that, overall, they fit the Chaotic Good category, so fairly heroic.

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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:54 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:22 pm I agree with Lionel’s take.
Some of them are much more heroic than others. But even then, those who aren’t like that, they usually let the ball bounce once believing that they can prevent the bomb from going off. It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that they feel they can deal with it. It’s like not studying for an exam because they believe they can pass it without studying, not because they don’t care.
And I do prefer this much more human take rather than the usual hero with crazy moral standards that are impracticable in the real world and could only end in worse situations.

Also, DBS didn’t have many situations were the characters were assholes regarding a threat. I can only think of Goku giving a senzu to Moro, but that was under control, the issue that developed later was unrelated to that. I mean, that's nothing new.
Actually they are much more practical when it comes to solving a situation in DBS, putting behind their issues, they have fused twice and fought in teams vs Jiren, Broly, and vs Gas and Black Freeza, too. Their hubris is much more controlled now.
Indeed. I don't agree that 'typical heroes' have crazy moral standards but otherwise I agree.
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Re: How Heroic are the Dragon Team, If They Are?

Post by Peach » Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:59 am

I think Future Trunks, Krillin, Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, and Yamcha are the most heroic. They're always way out of their league, but try anyway. They'll put themselves through hell even if all it means is buying time for Goku. Gohan and Krillin in particular seem to be the most heroic. Krillin showing empathy for Android 17 and 18. Gohan avoiding killing if he can help it. It's nice.

Then there are the Gamma's. Who were literally created to be heroes.

Goku is much more of a jerk than i realized. Letting Vegeta go so he can get a good fight later, giving Cell a senzu bean, threatening to kill the Supreme Kai if he interfered in his fight with Vegeta, not finishing Buu off so Vegeta could get a turn, putting the whole universe on a line for a tournament, and offering to bring Frieza back so he can get stronger. I wouldn't say Goku is a bad guy though. A lot of it seems to be an instinctual drive to fight battles, since he is an alien from a warrior race.

In the end, all the characters would die to protect others. They would all sacrifice their lives to save others.

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