Tien > Freeza?

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

I refuse to believe that a human doing no special training on Earth could get stronger than any form of Freeza.

Yeah. Tenshinhan rose from 1,000 to 90,000 in only 6 days.

[Bussani]

I refuse to believe that a human doing no special training on Earth could get stronger than any form of Freeza.

Honestly, I think that it's just ridiculous to assume that Tenshinhan never surpassed Freeza's first form...

I don't think anyone's thinking of first form Freeza. That's an entirely different matter.

[Raki]

I refuse to believe that a human doing no special training on Earth could get stronger than any form of Freeza.

Honestly, I think that it's just ridiculous to assume that Tenshinhan never surpassed Freeza's first form...

I don't think anyone's thinking of first form Freeza. That's an entirely different matter.

Maybe just maybe. But even there Ten-san would have a tough time.

[mattymoron]

I refuse to believe that a human doing no special training on Earth could get stronger than any form of Freeza.

Honestly, I think that it's just ridiculous to assume that Tenshinhan never surpassed Freeza's first form...

I don't think anyone's thinking of first form Freeza. That's an entirely different matter.

Rocketman said any form of Freeza...

[Kaboom]

I could only see Tenshinhan surpassing Freeza's first and MAYBE his second form. Only because when the Daizenshuu suggests that he's got alien ancestry, I go, "cool, whatever." Plus, it helps a few other things here and there make more sense.

[Bussani]

Honestly, I think that it's just ridiculous to assume that Tenshinhan never surpassed Freeza's first form...

I don't think anyone's thinking of first form Freeza. That's an entirely different matter.

Rocketman said any form of Freeza...

Huh, so he did. I completely missed that.

In retrospect, the difference between Freeza's power in first form and his full power in his final form was huge. I can see most of the characters catching up to his first form, at least. And in terms of the cosmic order, even that is a huge accomplishment.

I'm sure Rocketman feels like this; Goku trained at Kaio's place, probably became stronger than Kaio himself even, and he still wasn't a match for Vegeta. Who, in turn, wasn't even enough against transformed Zarbon after getting stronger from zenkais. For a human, with no zenkais and less extreme training than some of the Saiyajin go through, gaining that much strength seems like quite a stretch.

Sure, Tenshinhan trained with Kaio for longer than Goku, so I imagine he got quite strong, but if that was all it took to face up to first form Freeza then he wouldn't have been such a big deal, you know?

Edit: At most I think Tenshinhan kept up with the Saiyajin base forms. But considering what they put themselves through, even that would be tough. But if he did, that would probably put him above first form Freeza, wouldn't it?

[mattymoron]

Honestly, I don't think that the human characters should have become as useless as they did. I think they should've been on the same level as saiyajin base forms...but, I guess Toriyama didn't feel that way.


I don't Tenshinhan kept up with Saiyajin bases post-ROSAT. That was when everyone who wasn't a Saiyajin became completely useless...

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Didn't ~Ten-San~ beat Butta and Jeice?

[Kendamu]

Didn't ~Ten-San~ beat Butta and Jeice?

He did so in some Freeza arc filler, but you could say that it doesn't count.

[Amigo Ten]

Honestly, I don't think that the human characters should have become as useless as they did. I think they should've been on the same level as saiyajin base forms...

That would still make them pretty useless.

[Bussani]

Didn't ~Ten-San~ beat Butta and Jeice?

I forget which he beat, but it was filler. The fact that they hadn't been training at Kaios for that long (not even as long as Goku did) makes it a bit hard to believe, especially considering everyone else who had been through more (Vegeta, who was already stronger than Kaio trained Goku as well as getting some zenkais, and Kuririn and Gohan with unlocked potential) had a lot of trouble against them. I have no problem with Cell saga Tenshinhan being that strong though.

[Rocketman]

Didn't ~Ten-San~ beat Butta and Jeice?

I forget which he beat, but it was filler.

He beat both. With the Split-Form technique.

Meaning the filler expects you to believe that in six days, Tien went from about 1,000 to nearly 100,000.

[Kendamu]

Didn't ~Ten-San~ beat Butta and Jeice?

I forget which he beat, but it was filler.

He beat both. With the Split-Form technique.

Meaning the filler expects you to believe that in six days, Tenshinhan went from about 1,000 to nearly 100,000.

Not much of a stretch considering that filler expects us to believe that Nappa and Vegeta can breathe in space while destroying Arlia.

[rereboy]

I forget which he beat, but it was filler.

He beat both. With the Split-Form technique.

Meaning the filler expects you to believe that in six days, Tenshinhan went from about 1,000 to nearly 100,000.

Not much of a stretch considering that filler expects us to believe that Nappa and Vegeta can breathe in space while destroying Arlia.

Well the manga expect us to believe that Bardock fought Freeza in Planet Vegeta`s orbit and that Goku dropped the boss rabbit on the moon, so...

[Kendamu]

Well the manga expect us to believe that Bardock fought Freeza in Planet Vegeta`s orbit and that Goku dropped the boss rabbit on the moon, so...

The first one I don't really have an explanation for, but the second one is a classic example of gag manga antics and they're part of why we tend to have out-of-universe discussions about author motivations and cultural background behind such things rather than trying to apply logic to something like Tenshinhan being able to take a kick from Buu and live.

[Adey]

All I'm going to add is that it took Krillin all of his life up until a specific point to get the strength and power level he attained on Namek. The same goes for Tenshinhan, and then Krillin got his power boost from the Guru, making him vastly stronger than Tenshinhan. The amount of power they were gaining throughout all those years isn't even 1% of Freezas power.

I don't see how training in the mountains with Chaozu no matter for how long, could have even put him above Zarbon, I just don't think the humans were THAT strong.

And then to go further and say that ANY human could even go toe to toe with Freeza sounds absolutely ridiculous.

[Wojak]

And to add, Vegeta that trained in 300g for 1-3 years didn't get as much increase as Tenshinhan would get in some of his fans' eyes.
As an example, both Goku and Vegeta were about 3,000,000 in base at Namek.
Goku later trained of Yadrat, Vegeta took it easy. Goku trained for three years at Earth, and got a rise in his powerlevel. Vegeta caught up by training in the gravity chamber and got most certainly stronger than Goku after those three years.
Their base powers should have risen by at least one or two millions

To think that Tenshinhan's power would rise above 100,000,000 is not that logical.

[rereboy]

Its not that logical to think that Piccolo would rise from a power level inferior to Freeza`s third form to a power level that could easily destroy #20 just by training on Earth less than two years, but he did. And he doesn`t have zenkais.

And yes, #20 and #19 have power levels similar to that of Freeza in my book. I consider full powered Freeza to be stronger than them individually but not by a whole lot.

[JulieYBM]

Its not that logical to think that Piccolo would rise from a power level inferior to Freeza`s third form to a power level that could easily destroy #20 just by training on Earth less than two years, but he did. And he doesn`t have zenkais.

And yes, #20 and #19 have power levels similar to that of Freeza in my book. I consider full powered Freeza to be stronger than them individually but not by a whole lot.

Five years. There was a five year space of time between the Namek arc and the fight with the Cyborgs.

[Wojak]

Its not that logical to think that Piccolo would rise from a power level inferior to Freeza`s third form to a power level that could easily destroy #20 just by training on Earth less than two years, but he did. And he doesn`t have zenkais.

And yes, #20 and #19 have power levels similar to that of Freeza in my book. I consider full powered Freeza to be stronger than them individually but not by a whole lot.

It's not logical, I agree. But that's what's the case with Piccolo. Piccolo is shown to be able to grow that much.
Tenshinhan, on the other hand, is shown to not being able to.