Physical Strength in DB/Z

Pitzu · Post by **Pitzu** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:15 pm

Throughout Dragonball, the main indicator of someones power was always Ki. But what about physical strength?

Outside of Gravity training, what examples show how physically strong the characters are? How much can they lift without strain?

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Punching machines? It will at least give you a gauge of physical strength, but most of the numbers from the Z Senshi don't mean much. I mean, Vegeta obliterated one of 'em and everyone else was hiding their true strength. But I think it will show the difference between Mister Satan and say, Goku or Piccolo during the Majin Buu arc.

B · Post by B » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:20 pm

I'm pretty sure the Super Exciting Guides mention that all people have their own set limits to physical strength and muscles and what not, while ki is unlimited. It was some sort of reason why Goku is such a beast. He's supposedly gifted at tapping into hidden ki.

Or something along those lines. Clarifications, anyone?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:30 pm

Physical strength and ki definitely seem to go hand in hand. If they didn't, people wouldn't get stronger after powering up, or transforming, or having their hidden ki drawn out. As such, I think a person's ki alone is enough to roughly guess how physically strong they are.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:38 pm

Base Buu Saga Goku can't move with 10 ton weights on his ankles and wrists.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:02 pm

Goku and Nam leaping a dozen kilometers into the air on the 21st budokai, Goku kicking Freeza through two solid islands, Gotenks tearing apart a couple of city blocks by smacking Buu around, Tao throwing the pillar across a two thousand kilometer wide area, and so on and forth.

I'd say a couple of million tons for the top-tiers in the Buu saga sounds very reasonable based on the above showings.

And Goku wasn't lifting those 10 tons, when your hands are fully extended like Goku's were, isometric weight lifting exercises become much harder. And according to SEG, Bukuujutsu made it a lot more difficult as well.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:13 pm

Rocketman wrote:Base Buu Saga Goku can't move with 10 ton weights on his ankles and wrists.

Well, Toriyama wasn`t that accurate in small details like just how many tons can Goku lift in the buu saga.

By logical standards he should lift way more. In Dragon Ball he lifted Giant-sized Piccolo who should weigh many tons on that size.

Tenshinhan-san · Post by **Tenshinhan-san** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:22 am

When still preparing for the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai both Goku and Kuririn moved a gigantic mountain simply by pushing it. That was when they were 12 and 13 and just had been training the Kame-Sennin style for a couple of months...

Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:45 am

"Mountain?" It was a boulder that was lodged in the ground. "Simply?" It took everything they could muster to push it along for a few feet.

Post by **Herms** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:41 am

B wrote:Or something along those lines. Clarifications, anyone?

From Toriyama's Q&A in the SEG: Story Volume:

What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:56 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:"Mountain?" It was a boulder that was lodged in the ground. "Simply?" It took everything they could muster to push it along for a few feet.

See this image?

"That is an 80 ton rock a guy paid $5000 in 1904 ($130,000 in today’s dollars) to move it 9 miles to be on top of his father. They didn’t have a crane big enough to lift it onto a train, so they had a team of men and horses move it on 2” planks, 900 feet a day for 2 months."

The rock that Goku moved after Roshi`s training was as big as this, if not bigger.
And by the end of dragon ball he lifted a giant-sized Piccolo who should weigh a lot more, way more.

Thats why I said Toriyama isnt that consistent regarding those details. By all logical standards, Goku shouldn`t struggle at all with 10 ton or 40 ton.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:00 pm

Pitzu wrote:Throughout Dragonball, the main indicator of someones power was always Ki. But what about physical strength?

Outside of Gravity training, what examples show how physically strong the characters are? How much can they lift without strain?

Chi and physical strength are very similar, if not the same. The feats shown throughout the series show how strong the characters are, basically. The punching machines, Goku and Kuririn moving the boulder etc.

To be honest, concerning the Goku 10 tons scenario, I don't think Toriyama put that much thought into it. Yes, Goku should be more than able to lift them, but that's Dragon Ball for you. However, it's not anything that should be plunged into with depth.

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:18 pm

How about when cell and goku are fighting? Just the WIND from their punches and picks disintegrate boulders.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:27 pm

I don't think DB characters that strong in physical strength unless they put more Ki into their body seeing that Base Goku was not able to pick up 70 tons without going SSj. I doubt they will be strong enough to destroy a Planet with one hand though.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:28 pm

... why are we convinced that Giant Piccolo had to weigh more than 40 tons?

... was Humpty-Dumpty a metaphor for that rock?

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:30 pm

I forgot that Goku was able to pick up Piccolo, I don't think Piccolo in his Super Namke form was giving a official height and mass though.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:51 pm

While Piccolo has been known to magically break conservation laws (either that, or teleport unused raw materials into the desired place in the desired shape), I got the impression that's not quite what his giant form was... he increased his volume, sure, but that doesn't imply that his mass increased accordingly. So yeah... maybe Giant Piccolo could be a boat?

... I now want a Piccolo boat. Make it a yacht, and maybe I'll dress up as Freeza and throw snoody parties.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:42 pm

I don't think Goku was going all out with those weights... he was just training, and probably not super seriously.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:47 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I don't think Goku was going all out with those weights... he was just training, and probably not super seriously.

He was also training kinda specifically, and didn't seem too fond of Kaio's suggestion that he transform to move them.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:50 pm

caejones wrote:... why are we convinced that Giant Piccolo had to weigh more than 40 tons?

Well that rock (in the image) isnt very big.

Yet, the rocks weighs 80 tons.

Giant-sized Piccolo was HUGE. He had to weigh at least more than that rock.

Therefore...

Kanzenshuu

Physical Strength in DB/Z

Physical Strength in DB/Z

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