Accuracy of some Viz lines

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Accuracy of some Viz lines

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:16 am

I was reading some volumes of the manga recently, and there some lines that cought my attension and wondered how accurate are they.

From DBZ vol. 2

Image

Muten Roshi says the Saiyans arrived earlier by more than a month. Is this accurate?

From DBZ vol. 11

Image

Here, Kami is talking with Kaio about resurrecting the people killed by Vegeta and Nappa.
In here, he make it sound like the "One Year" rule works only if you want to revive a multible ammount of people.

From DBZ vol. 17

Image

Did Vegeta really calles Goku "Goku" instead of Kakarotto? Or is this an error from the translator?

One last thing from DBZ vol. 17.

In the page where Trunks is powering up (Page 8 ), the printing quality looks so horrible!!

I have the third printing from March 2007. Did they improve the quality in later prints?
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Post by Kingdom Heartless » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:32 am

Vegeta saying Goku is an interesting one.... I'd definitely assume that to be an error.
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Post by Bussani » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:43 am

I'm sure the part about the one year rule is the same as it was in Japanese. We've discussed it before and come to the conclusion that, as Kami says it (in both versions), the rule only applies to wishing back multiple people, just as you interpreted it. The purpose of the limit is probably to trim down the number of people being brought back, rather than some universal limit. So picking a different limit might work, too. Like only people with pink hair?

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Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:28 am

I would assume Vegeta saying "Goku" is an error on the translator's part. Vegeta has called Son Goku "Kakarotto" consistently throughout the series, bar that line you pointed out.

It reminds me of a part in DBZ: Legacy Of Goku II. After Trunks kills Freeza & King Cold, when you talk to Vegeta, Vegeta says "It's bad enough Goku is a Super Saiyan..." but then later he says, "How can this Kakarrot, this Goku as his friends call him...".
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Re: Accuracy of some Viz lines.

Post by Herms » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:50 pm

Muten Roshi says the Saiyans arrived earlier by more than a month. Is this accurate?
That's in the original, which fits with the amount of time said to pass. Goku starts crossing the Serpent Road very soon after his death, and the narrator says it takes him 6 months to cross it. When he gets there, Kaio says that the Saiyans will reach Earth in 158 days. So that give a total of about 11 months, 8 days. Well, I guess that's not quite "more than a month early", but whatever.
Here, Kami is talking with Kaio about resurrecting the people killed by Vegeta and Nappa.
In here, he make it sound like the "One Year" rule works only if you want to revive a multible ammount of people.
Yeah, he says the same in the original. And then Kaio apologizes to Tenshinhan and co. for making them wait longer to be revived, Yamcha says not to worry, since it's just a year. If the one-year rule applied in all cases, asking them to wait one year to be revived would effectively be asking them to never be revived, but nobody acts as if this were so. So I think it's safe to say the one-year rule only applies to large groups.
Did Vegeta really calles Goku "Goku" instead of Kakarotto? Or is this an error from the translator?
He really says that! They didn't even fix that for the kanzenban release.
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Post by rereboy » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:19 pm

So Viz actually translated everything right.

(That just goes to show us they they don`t really deserve their bad reputation in DB translation)

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:43 pm

rereboy wrote:So Viz actually translated everything right.

(That just goes to show us they they don`t really deserve their bad reputation in DB translation)
I didn't think they had a bad rep. The only people who have big issues with them are hardcore purists who want EVERYTHING directly translated. I can honestly say my only complaint is the use of the name Hercule and even that wouldn't of bugged me had they just left the name "Mr.Satan" in the artwork.
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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:21 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
rereboy wrote:So Viz actually translated everything right.

(That just goes to show us they they don`t really deserve their bad reputation in DB translation)
I didn't think they had a bad rep. The only people who have big issues with them are hardcore purists who want EVERYTHING directly translated. I can honestly say my only complaint is the use of the name Hercule and even that wouldn't of bugged me had they just left the name "Mr.Satan" in the artwork.
Yeah, viz's version is actually my favorite translation of the series, anime or manga. Where did you get the idea that they had a bad rep?
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Post by Tyro » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:49 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote:Yeah, viz's version is actually my favorite translation of the series, anime or manga. Where did you get the idea that they had a bad rep?
Goku (original): "Even if I raise the Kaio-ken to x5, it still won't have any effect on him!!!!"

Goku (VIZ): "But my only chance--is to increase my power!!!!"

Vegeta (original): "Shall I tell you something good?... When a Saiya-jin becomes an Oozaru, their battle power becomes 10 times what it is as a human!!!!"

Vegeta (VIZ): "A Saiyan is most powerful in its ape form! A Saiyan...that still has its tail!"
Last edited by Tyro on Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:58 pm

Tyro wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:Yeah, viz's version is actually my favorite translation of the series, anime or manga. Where did you get the idea that they had a bad rep?

Goku (original): "Even if I raise the Kaio-ken to x5, it still won't have any effect on him!!!!"

Goku (VIZ): "But my only chance--is to increase my power!!!!"

Vegeta (original): "Shall I tell you something good?... When a Saiya-jin becomes an Oozaru, their battle power becomes 10 times what it is as a human!!!!"

Vegeta (VIZ): "A Saiyan is most powerful in its ape form! A Saiyan...that still has its tail!"
Those lines give the exact same meaning. Goku can't beat his enemy with the power he currently has and Saiyans are at their strongest when they have tails.
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Post by Tyro » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:00 pm

I couldn't really care if they mean the exact same thing or not to be perfectly honest with you. The fact of the matter is, those translations suck ass, and are obviously made-up.

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:02 pm

Tyro wrote:I couldn't really care if they mean the exact same thing or not to be perfectly honest with you. The fact of the matter is, those translations suck ass, and are obviously made-up.
So it's not important the dialogue has the same meaning and is just reworded to sound less blatantly stupid in English like "Shall I tell you something good"?
Obviously they aren't made up because the lines carry the same meaning in the same panel in the same bubble. It's clear they were referencing the Japanese script.
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Post by Kaboom » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:09 pm

The only discrepancies between the original and the translations are the involvement of actual numbers. Otherwise they say the same thing.
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Post by Puto » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:10 pm

The english line about the transformation takes out the x10 multiplier, though. You lose information that way.

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Post by IncompetentOverlord » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:11 pm

Tyro wrote:I couldn't really care if they mean the exact same thing or not to be perfectly honest with you. The fact of the matter is, those translations suck ass, and are obviously made-up.
Really, with a version that conveys the same meaning as the original, it all comes down to taste. If you want a completely accurate version with absolutely no alterations, then viz is terrible, borderline Funimation really. If you want a slightly altered version with the same tone and meaning as the original, but changed to make more sense in english, then viz provides a fairly good version of Dragonball.

Somehow, in the end, this is going to turn into Dub vs. Sub: The Manga Edition, and I'm ashamed I did my part to start it.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:11 pm

Puto wrote:The english line about the transformation takes out the x10 multiplier, though. You lose information that way.
You lose information sure but it's an insanely insignificant detail that only comes into play if you're having power level debates on Gamefaqs.
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Post by Duo » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:16 pm

It's not like the Viz translation is going to breed a group of fans that believe Freeza was only using 1% of his power, or that Goku's father was a brilliant scientist.

It has questionable moments, but as a whole it's not very bad.

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Post by Tyro » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:20 pm

"Har har, guys. "10 times" is way too small. He's a Saiyan...with a tail. He needs more POWA."

How the hell does "Shall I tell you something good" sound "blatantly stupid" in English? That sounds perfect for Vegeta's personality if you ask me.

And sure, these aren't "made up" in the sense of coming straight out of the translator's mind, but these lines are far more than just translated. They're being twisted from the original. A twist I don't need to enjoy the story. Why take out "10x more powerful"? That's practically like saying that Tenshinhan shouldn't say that Goku's clothes are "over 200 pounds" in weight, but rather, just "really heavy."
IncompetentOverlord wrote:Really, with a version that conveys the same meaning as the original, it all comes down to taste. If you want a completely accurate version with absolutely no alterations, then viz is terrible, borderline Funimation really. If you want a slightly altered version with the same tone and meaning as the original, but changed to make more sense in english, then viz provides a fairly good version of Dragonball.
I really like to debate about Dragonball. Anything changed from the original just further screws up the system for me. I know a few that would say the same, but it's like you said. It does come down to taste.

I still don't see where the bad English comes in though.
Last edited by Tyro on Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:26 pm

Tyro wrote:"Har har, guys. "10 times" is way to small. He's a Saiyan...with a tail. He needs more POWA."
...kay' don't see where this snarky comment was going, moving on.
Tyro wrote:How the hell does "Shall I tell you something good" sound "blatantly stupid" in English? That sounds perfect for Vegeta's personality if you ask me.
Yeah I hear English phrased like this every day. That sentence is a prime candidate for why translating Japanese directly into English doesn't work without some rewording.
Tyro wrote:Sure, these aren't "made up" in the sense of coming straight out of the translator's mind, but these lines far more than just translated. They're being twisted from the original. A twist I don't need to enjoy the story. Why take out "10x more powerful"? That's practically like saying that Tenshinhan shouldn't say that Goku's clothes are "over 200 pounds" in weight, but rather, just "really heavy."
So you're a hardcore purist that needs every line translated directly? Let me guess you also want honorifics in the manga too? It's clear we're reading the manga for two entirely different purposes in that case.
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Post by Bussani » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:38 pm

Viz isn't perfect, but it always surprises me how accurate the meanings are. More often than not, the way I interpret something said in the Viz manga is the same as someone would get from the Japanese version. For example, that one year rule thing.

Daimao's subs are obviously a lot more literal, though. That's probably the best translation you'll get. I guess the space in a speech bubble might have something to do with rewording something or leaving a piece of information out. Just because it fit there in Japanese doesn't mean the literal translation to English would.

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