Accuracy of some Viz lines

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Amigo Ten
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Post by Amigo Ten » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:41 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:So you're a hardcore purist that needs every line translated directly? Let me guess you also want honorifics in the manga too?
That's a really silly leap of reasoning to make.

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Post by Tyro » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:43 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:...kay' don't see where this snarky comment was going, moving on.
I was saying that, sure, the basic idea here was that Vegeta's ki was getting bigger, but it was a change that really wasn't necessary at all. Argue all you want about the wording of it, but at the end of the day the "10x stronger" part was left out. What the hell would it have hurt being left in, even if just that part?
Yeah I hear English phrased like this every day. That sentence is a prime candidate for why translating Japanese directly into English doesn't work without some rewording.
Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
So you're a hardcore purist that needs every line translated directly? Let me guess you also want honorifics in the manga too? It's clear we're reading the manga for two entirely different purposes in that case.
Don't really care about the honorifics, but the examples I posted are some of the translations that I feel show VIZ's not-so-accurate side, thus proving where it might get its bad rep.
Last edited by Tyro on Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Herms » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:43 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:Let me guess you also want honorifics in the manga too?
Well, there are honorifics in the Viz translation of the manga. They don't leave them all in, sure, but Kaio and Kami regularly have "sama" affixed to their name, and Bulma refers to Goku as "Son-kun" at least once. The original monthly comic editions also had Ginyu and co. refer to Vegeta as "Vegeta-chan", but this was removed for the graphic novels. I think "san" is in there too at some point.

I like to say that Viz's translation is a 7/10, on the grounds that it's not bad by any means, but still could be considerably improved. Then Daimao's subtitles are a 9/10, with a 10/10 being an essentially impossible perfect translation.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:46 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:So you're a hardcore purist that needs every line translated directly? Let me guess you also want honorifics in the manga too?
That's a really silly leap of reasoning to make.
I don't think so, if you NEED things phrased exactly as they are in the original version or else that translation is automatically "shitty" then you're probably in the same camp of people who need Gohan to go "I LOVE YOU PICCOLO-SAN".
It's the same danm people fagging up my fansubs with random Japanese words scattered everywhere accompanied by "translators notes".
Tyro wrote: Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
I never said I couldn't stand to read it I just said it looks unnecessarily ridiculous.
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Post by Herms » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:53 pm

Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
Speaking of natural-sounding English, there's Viz's annoying habit of having Piccolo speak like some Ren fair reject half the time, when in Japanese he talks normally, or at least no differently than roughneck characters like Vegeta.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:59 pm

Herms wrote:
Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
Speaking of natural-sounding English, there's Viz's annoying habit of having Piccolo speak like some Ren fair reject half the time, when in Japanese he talks normally, or at least no differently than roughneck characters like Vegeta.
Yeah okay this was stupid I'll admit that. Luckily it lasted for around 2 volumes though.
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:00 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:It's the same danm people fagging up my fansubs with random Japanese words scattered everywhere accompanied by "translators notes".
Annnnnnnd I think that makes my point without my even posting.

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Post by Herms » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:04 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:Yeah okay this was stupid I'll admit that. Luckily it lasted for around 2 volumes though.
It seems to randomly come and go. It does drop out around DBZ volume 3, but then when Viz did the 23rd TB they had him talk like that too (perhaps to provide continuity with the first few Z volumes?) and then he starts talking like that again around the Boo arc ("Away from me, man. Piccolo is green!").
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Post by Tyro » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:07 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:I never said I couldn't stand to read it I just said it looks unnecessarily ridiculous.
"Shall I tell you something good?" Hmm...Maybe it's me, but I don't think that sounds ridiculous at all. How would you have him say it? "Want to hear something good?" It's not like I'd have a problem with that, I just prefer a close(r) translation, if not literal.
Herms wrote:Speaking of natural-sounding English, there's Viz's annoying habit of having Piccolo speak like some Ren fair reject half the time, when in Japanese he talks normally, or at least no differently than roughneck characters like Vegeta.
Are we talking volumes 1-2 Piccolo, or do you mean the entire series? I actually had a thread about that years ago. IIRC, VegettoEX said something about a person named Trish translating that. Stated they were "Trish-isms."

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Post by NeptuneKai » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:10 pm

Herms wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:Yeah okay this was stupid I'll admit that. Luckily it lasted for around 2 volumes though.
It seems to randomly come and go. It does drop out around DBZ volume 3, but then when Viz did the 23rd TB they had him talk like that too (perhaps to provide continuity with the first few Z volumes?) and then he starts talking like that again around the Boo arc.
I glanced through a little bit of the Boo saga and I while I did notice Piccolo's speech pattern becoming slightly more formal I wouldn't say it was obnoxiously thick like in the first two volumes. (From what I've looked through anyway if you have page numbers or something I'll be happy to look it up.)

As for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai I didn't notice it at all, do you have any specific examples?
Tyro wrote:
"Shall I tell you something good?" Hmm...Maybe it's me, but I don't think that sounds ridiculous at all. How would you have him say it? "Want to hear something good?" It's not like I'd have a problem with that, I just prefer a close(r) translation, if not literal.
"Allow me to reveal something interesting" is more my idea of something I'd hear in everyday English I suppose.
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Post by Rocketman » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:58 pm

Tyro wrote:Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
First off, in Old English the line would be something like "Sceal ic spell þú áht fremung?"

Besides that, I think it's the use of 'shall'. It sounds archaic, or at the least, excessively formal/polite. It doesn't sicken me to read it, but it does sound like a sentence rigidly translated to technically correct but odd-sounding English.
Last edited by Rocketman on Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rereboy » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:05 pm

IncompetentOverlord wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
rereboy wrote:So Viz actually translated everything right.

(That just goes to show us they they don`t really deserve their bad reputation in DB translation)
I didn't think they had a bad rep. The only people who have big issues with them are hardcore purists who want EVERYTHING directly translated. I can honestly say my only complaint is the use of the name Hercule and even that wouldn't of bugged me had they just left the name "Mr.Satan" in the artwork.
Yeah, viz's version is actually my favorite translation of the series, anime or manga. Where did you get the idea that they had a bad rep?
I like them too, but there are a lot of fans out there that stat that Viz just sucks because of a few lines that could have a more literal translation or other pretty rare cases.

And so they have a bad rep to some.
Herms wrote:
Does anyone else find that sentence so ye-olde-Englishy that they can't stand to read it? Serious question.
Speaking of natural-sounding English, there's Viz's annoying habit of having Piccolo speak like some Ren fair reject half the time, when in Japanese he talks normally, or at least no differently than roughneck characters like Vegeta.
This is pretty much the worst that Viz does, at least in my opinion.

But I only noticed it in one or two volumes.

The other things are just minor things that could have had a more literal translation or something like that and those are rare.

Overall, I agree with Bussani. They pretty much always give us the original intent of the original. And that, to me, is a good translation.

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Post by Herms » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:38 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:As for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai I didn't notice it at all, do you have any specific examples?
Let's see...Piccolo asking Kami "Has a god left his heaven to seek my destruction?" (vs. "You've come to get rid of me, haven't you?" in the original), and saying "Do gods, then, go mad?" (vs. just "Have you gone nuts?") . When Goku gets knocked out for awhile and the announcer is doing the 10 count, Piccolo originally goes "There’s no point in shouting or anything. So shut up.", which in Viz is "Please, waste no time with a count. Let him up." Stuff like that. Piccolo also insultingly calls Goku a mortal in Viz, despite being equally mortal himself.

An interesting thing is that for DB volume 16, on the back cover Viz has a color picture of the panel where giant Piccolo taunts Goku by saying he can't win without Tenshinhan's help, but the translation of Piccolo's line on the back cover is slightly different than in the actual chapter inside. On the back cover it's "Don’t you think you should ask your friends for help? At this point, you have no hope of winning!", while in the chapter it' slightly more elaborate: "Do you truly wish to decline your allies’ aid?! Without it, your slim hope becomes none at all!!"

"Allow me to reveal something interesting" is more my idea of something I'd hear in everyday English I suppose.
Really? That'd be my idea of a really awkward phrasing.
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Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:26 am

These formal translations for Piccolo are funny. As I read them all I can think of is Piccolo with a monocle(if I wasn't so tired I'd draw it). Funny how my mind works.
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Post by Bussani » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:15 am

My favorite is, "By the gods...is this the end of Piccolo...?" accompanied by the most dramatic closeup of Piccolo in the whole manga.

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Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:54 am

There was "Spare me your folly". Also, Piccolo uses "queer" rather than the word "odd" when he's referring to Kami-sama's plans for Goku in the afterlife and Raditz's scouter.
Plus, in the Cell arc, when Bulma asks Piccolo whether he's going to use the Saiyan armour, Piccolo replies "How can Piccolo wear the same costumes as Saiyans and Freeza's men?"

When Goku is surprised that Piccolo wore weighted clothing too, Piccolo says, "As are you, boy..."

And now I can see where this is going...
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Post by Sprite Satan » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:59 am

I actually enjoyed Extremely Formal Piccolo. I wouldn't have minded if they had given more characters such distinctive localisation.

I'm not a huge fan of Viz's localisations anyway, so if they're going to change things they may as well entertain me (and just me) while doing it.
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Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:03 am

Sprite Satan wrote:I actually enjoyed Extremely Formal Piccolo. I wouldn't have minded if they had given more characters such distinctive localisation.

I'm not a huge fan of Viz's localisations anyway, so if they're going to change things they may as well entertain me (and just me) while doing it.
I liked it at first too, but then after a while, I was like, "We get it already, now start talking in the 21st Century."
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Post by SHINOBI-03 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:06 am

Sprite Satan wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Viz's localisations anyway, so if they're going to change things they may as well entertain me (and just me) while doing it.
The weirdest thing I read from Viz was... "Anzu Gradner" from Yu Gi Oh! R vol. 2.

And some strange Naruto attack names despite them having both the manga and the anime.

But from Dragon Ball, I might pick The Popo Mystery Theater line from Bulma.
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Post by mAcChaos » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:10 pm

I liked the way Piccolo talks.
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