Gogeta..... Super Saiyan 5?!?

[askani son]

There was just one main thing that I never understood. Other than that though, GT is pretty cool.

What was the "one main thing"?
Personally I hate the whole thing about Pan having "diluted blood" and not being able to go ssj while Goku Jnr. and Vegeta Jnr. both do at the end.

[Caracal]

GT was alright but made some bad choices. First Goku is a kid - Why? The point of the DB series is to watch him mature. Plus in DB, Goku is a kid with no knowlegde of the outside world which lead to some excellent jokes. Now Goku knows everything about life and it just isn't the same.

Second is everyone loosing so Goku can win. Yes this happened in DBZ, but in DBZ the other characters stood a slim chance. Vegeta could hold his own against first form Freeza, second form Cell and maybe one of the Buus. Gohan could match second and even full power Freeza (depending if you count the filler where Gohan goes to check on his dad), Perfect Cell (when he becomes SSj2) and Super Buu. Piccolo could hold his own against Second form Freeza, imperfect Cell and possibly Nappa. But in GT these past triumphs are all ignored to ensure Goku saves the day which gets boring the second time you see it.

Third is ripping off class DB and DBZ ideas, such as switching the bride with Trunks, hell opening up, Androids and a couple more I can't think of.

And it's a shame because the idea of Bebi (a victim of the Saiyans out for revenge), SSj4 (the true form of SSj and therefore the legendary Super Saiyan?) and the Dark Dragons were great ideas in my eyes.

[Dragon]

There was just one main thing that I never understood. Other than that though, GT is pretty cool.

What was the "one main thing"?
Personally I hate the whole thing about Pan having "diluted blood" and not being able to go ssj while Goku Jnr. and Vegeta Jnr. both do at the end.

Ack sorry! The main thing I never understood was the Super Oozaru thing. I heard that the reason they went Super Oozaru was due to the fact they, they being Goku and Vegeta, had the ability to go super saiyan. Well, if this is true, they could have skipped the next two stages of super saiyan, taken a shortcut to super saiyan 4, and then defeated Frieza, Cell, and Buu without a sweat... if they had their tales in DBZ that is. But still, even if they did, that wouldn't make a lot of sense in my opinion. All I can think of is that Goku got that form when his "home" planet was giving him the blutz waves and Vegeta was getting them forced into his body due to Bulma. I'm guessing that the blutz waves from one's home planet would make them transform that way. But it wouldn't seem sensible because what if, back before DB, a saiyan saw planet Vegeta while on a moon and all of the sudden went super oozaru. That is why I've never understood it, it makes no sense. As for the Pan thing, I'm guessing that Toei wanted at least one (part) saiyan who couldn't transform. Heheh, Maybe Chi-chi actually kept her away from Goku's love of fighting well enough that she didn't get to transform.

[SaiyamanMS]

GT was alright but made some bad choices. First Goku is a kid - Why? The point of the DB series is to watch him mature. Plus in DB, Goku is a kid with no knowlegde of the outside world which lead to some excellent jokes. Now Goku knows everything about life and it just isn't the same.

I think it was a good idea at the start..... (otherwise Goku could have just used instant transmission to hop around the Galaxy instead of riding the spaceship everywhere.... also, it gave Pilaf something to wish for other than the world....) but keeping him as a kid even after he could go SSJ4 just sorta wrecked it..... (Turning from a kid to an adult in an instant? I'd rather just have him return to normal after the Baby saga.... but well.. that was Toei's choice....)

[Deus ex Machina]

However, I think Goku switching between a kid, to adult SSJ4 makes some kind of sense. SSJ4 is based on the Ôzaru transformation, and there isn't any difference between a child Saiyan and adult once transformed into giant apes.

[Chuquita]

I prefer the original db chibi Goku. He's much more entertaining than gt's version.
SSJ4 is fun...though they never do explain how Goku's shirt magically disappears and reappears between that form and chibi, or how his clothes are able to grow with him--I know they shrunk when he was turned into a kid, but...


I think it would've made more sense if Pan were able to go ssj, either start off with it or gain it during the Bebi eps. That way it would be more logical to have her along when she goes with Goku later on to get the db's back from the Evil Shenlongs.

[Dragon]

However, I think Goku switching between a kid, to adult SSJ4 makes some kind of sense.

Yeah, I agree.

SSJ4 is based on the Ôzaru transformation, and there isn't any difference between a child Saiyan and adult once transformed into giant apes.

But I always thought it was for a different reason though. I thought that maybe SSJ4 was powerful enough to overcome Shenron's power, for the time being. Because in the Baby Saga, Goku powered up to SSJ3 and still stayed a kid. But whenever he powers up to SSJ4, he becomes his true age. So I always thought it was because that power was so great, it cancelled out the wish as long as Goku was that powerful, because whenever he leaves that state, he always becomes a kid again. Meh, just a thought.

[ZFIGHTER_CHI CHI]

There was just one main thing that I never understood. Other than that though, GT is pretty cool.

What was the "one main thing"?
Personally I hate the whole thing about Pan having "diluted blood" and not being able to go ssj while Goku Jnr. and Vegeta Jnr. both do at the end.

Actually i think it's a good thing that Pan can't go SSJ. She's powerful but i'm probably saying this because she's not my favorite charecter. They probably would have got to it if the hadn't cancelled GT.

[ChaotixXero]

The reason that they made Gogeta's hair red was because if they made it black, it woulda been hard to tell him apart from SSJ4 Goku.

[Dragon]

Errr, then that was an awfully bad decision on Toei's part. They obviously forgot that the voice would be different. But still, they could've at least given a logical reason for the hair being red. I just call it super saiyan 5, but that's just me, since Bulma did mention it in a forshadowing way.

[Demi]

Well, i think the fusion jacket/trousers would be enough to tell it isn't Goku. The whole Bulma talking about SSJ5 thing, i just think she said that to show how much power vegeta could gain from that machine thing. I don't think she litteraly knew there was a SSJ5. Though i think the jacket/trousers would be enough to tell them apart, i agree that the red hair thing was just so it would be easier to tell them apart. Even if it dosn't make much sense. (Sorry for the bump.. =P)

[spikemcruffy]

j

[B-kun]

I felt that gt was just a big filler , I know people say that its because its not Toriyamas work but I think they could have at least given it a whole better proper story.
They started making all these weird differences from Z including the animation quality.
They should of made Gt a big movie , it would feel better because all the Z movies are fillers not the series.

The slightly different artstyle is because they had a different animation studio.

As for all the Z movies not being part of the series, movie 5 is listed in the timline, and movie 9 and 13 are pretty much flawless, aside from Trunks' hair, but that's a ridiculous thing to nitpick on and discount an entire movie.

[Dominator]

Vegeta did have brown hair, that could probably explain it.

[Akira]

Just a few things I wanted to mention in this topic in response to some of the questions.

A couple of things that are seen as plot holes in GT really aren't and have Z evidence supporting them. First is Super Saiyan 4 Goku's clothing. Recall in Dragonball and Z that Piccolo was able to grow to enormous size and his clothing did not tear. However, that explanation is discounted on the first transformation because Goku had to become the Oozaru first and that tore his clothing off. So how did he get the pants back once he became a Super Saiyan 4?

I have an explanation. Recall that Piccolo used an attack whereby he punched forward with a flat palm and the strength of the air knocked his opponent (Teen Son Goku) back. Son then uses this attack back on Piccolo Junior at the 23rd Budokai. Son also uses it in Z against the Ogre in Hell to knock him back out of the circle "ring" that they fight in. I use this as evidence that Son Goku was able to learn Piccolo's techniques. He learned Roshi's Kamehameha quickly as well, remember?

So what was one of Piccolo's techniques? Materialize clothing! He gave Son Gohan a new set of training clothing and rematerializes his own cape and hat on a few occasions. When he was split he could do this as well as Kami restored Goku's uniform for him after the 23rd Budokai.

The point is, Goku many times learns techniques and doesn't use them until its neccesary. We see him use the Solar Flare a few times, and he even uses a Destructo Disc against Super Buu. Now surely he was capable of that years before, he just never needed to use it until then.

So in conclusion on that point, I say Goku used a Technique he saw Piccolo use before and just automatically materialized a set of pants for his new transformation. A rather plausible explanation if I do say so myself.

On to another point, Goku's Oozaru form has nothing to do with seeing his "home planet". Ever since Dragonball it always has been Blutz waves that triggered the transformation. With another planet in Earth's Orbit, The earth was able to reflect a greater amount from the sun in late evening because it is so much larger than the moon. That's it, it has nothing to do with the fact that Goku grew up on earth. Although memories of his family and friends there did help trigger his anger. Had the circumstances been different, the Moon still could have triggered it or any other planet in close proximity.

The Blutz waves trigger the Oozaru normal transformation alone. The Saiyan must be powerful enough with his ten times magnified power to be able to become a Super Saiyan while in the Oozaru form. Then with control and mental stability they can go to Super Saiyan 4, which is indeed a further Oozaru form. Which explains why Goku is seemingly in an "adult" size.

That's all for the moment, but I may add more if this topic continues.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

When I play Budokai 3 I like to choose Goku's player 2 costume so that when I transform into SS4 Gojita it looks like SS5.

[Demi]

I felt that gt was just a big filler

How can it even be filler? That doesn't make sense, seeing as it doesn't lead up to anything that people would consider "canon".

[Sho™]

It stands to reason that fusing while at level 4 would still do the same thing and Gogeta would automaticaly emerge at level 5.

It's entirely possible, when you consider Gotenks ability to reach the third level while Goten and Trunks are only SSJ's. It was never actually stated that Gogeta was SSJ5...Like someone above said, it would have been specified.