What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

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MetalMadness
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What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by MetalMadness » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:46 pm

The specific scene I'm talking about is towards the end of the special, where Bardock appears to be on Namek, and he reaches out for Goku, calling his name, and then Goku disappears and is replaced by Frieza.

What exactly was the meaning behind this scene?
Was it supposed to show that Bardock actually truly cared for his son?

I never quite understood it really, because Bardock knew that his son was sent to Earth, so he knew he was safe from Frieza.

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by SSJ4_Zankuto » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:54 pm

I think he knew his son would be safe on Earth, and the only one who could defeat Frieza. In other words, Bardock actually cared about Goku.

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Dayspring » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:05 pm

MetalMadness wrote:The specific scene I'm talking about is towards the end of the special, where Bardock appears to be on Namek, and he reaches out for Goku, calling his name, and then Goku disappears and is replaced by Freeza.

What exactly was the meaning behind this scene?
Was it supposed to show that Bardock actually truly cared for his son?

I never quite understood it really, because Bardock knew that his son was sent to Earth, so he knew he was safe from Freeza.
It was ambiguous because the nature of the visions were done to torture him. In other words, this particular one was probably to let Bardock know Goku would escape the planet's destruction, only to have to encounter Freeza later on.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by MetalMadness » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 pm

It was ambiguous because the nature of the visions were done to torture him. In other words, this particular one was probably to let Bardock know Goku would escape the planet's destruction, only to have to encounter Freeza later on.
So in other words the dub's dialogue of Goku basically telling Bardock "it's not too late to change" is totally inaccurate, right?

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Coola Yagami » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:35 pm

Totally inaccurate in the sense that Goku has no dialogue in the entire movie....

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Thanos » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:52 pm

I thought that whole thing about the alien hitting him on the neck giving him visions of the future was fucking dumb. Such a ridiculous plot-device. It's as if it was thought up by a 10-year-old. I mean really. So bad.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Godo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:18 pm

Thanos wrote:I thought that whole thing about the alien hitting him on the neck giving him visions of the future was fucking dumb. Such a ridiculous plot-device. It's as if it was thought up by a 10-year-old. I mean really. So bad.
It was a pretty good way of incorporating some kind of "interaction" between the two of them without having to introduce a time-machine.

Dayspring wrote: It was ambiguous because the nature of the visions were done to torture him. In other words, this particular one was probably to let Bardock know Goku would escape the planet's destruction, only to have to encounter Freeza later on.
Eh, didn't Bardock smile when he was dying (right before he was 'sploded) ? He saw a vision of Goku fighting Freeza, right?

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Rory » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:21 pm

Thanos wrote:I thought that whole thing about the alien hitting him on the neck giving him visions of the future was fucking dumb. Such a ridiculous plot-device. It's as if it was thought up by a 10-year-old. I mean really. So bad.
I think it makes for a good redemption story. A man who can see his own demise, tries to change his fate and to free him and his people from their slavery. Ironically though, despite him seeing himself as the hero out to get revenge, he's just as bad as Freeza, a murderer who kills without hesitation, even committing genocide.

There's nothing he can do, nobody believes him and his destiny is pre-determined, despite how he struggles.
Just shows the stark contrast to Son Goku, a man pure of heart, and Bardock, a ruthless mercenary. They are actually polar opposites, Goku being a man who fights for others though he can occasionally show his own selfish desires, and Bardock who fights only for himself, who at his last moments seems to fight also for his son. While Goku's pure intent will always succeed, Bardock ultimately fails (pitifully, might I add).
The story unfolded quite well for me, showing Bardock's character quite well, all sides of him, even the less selfish (though not comparable to his son's) side.

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by DbzFanboy » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:19 pm

Bardock the Father of Goku is one of the greatest stories told in all of Dragon Ball (in my opinion). There are so many messages relayed throughout the movie such as "its never too late to change". Bardock tried to change in the end and be selfless and save his people but ultimately couldn't in a sense saying it was too late to change. The only other story I think surpasses this in quality is The History of Trunks. The thing about those TV specials is that the raw emotion brought out by the main protagonist is what helps drive the story, you can't tell me Gohan's death leaving Trunks screaming in the rain didn't have some type of affect on you.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Herms » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:50 pm

Coola Yagami wrote:Totally inaccurate in the sense that Goku has no dialogue in the entire movie....
One of these days I'm really going to have to watch the Funi dub of the Bardock special just to how different it really is from the original.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:21 pm

This specific vision is meant to show him a fully matured Goku, who is not limited to the planet he was sent to. But it is also highly symbolic for two reasons:

- Seeing Goku on Namek is a "first version" of the more precise vision he has when dying. It is the planet where Goku will face and defeat Freezer (but Burdock only finds out later, with his ultimate, more complete vision as I said).

- It symbolizes that Burdock will never get to be in direct contact with his son, especially at that time: when he's about to touch Goku, Freezer appears and kills him, symbolizing the fate Burdock will undergo and how it will prevent him from knowing his son as an adult. It is noteworthy that Burdock has never even touched his son even as a baby, and when he wants to do it in a dream, even that is denied to him, as if he had somehow been "destined" to not have contact with his son, as if it was better for Goku to never have the slightest contact with his father, as if Goku's true destined family was elsewhere. It is highly contrasted with grandpa Gohan at the end of the movie, who immediately has a strong physical contact with Goku, grabing him with both hands and playing with him, an immediate contact which makes the boy smile and is a foreshadowing of how a "closer" kind of person will make him happier in his life.

Well, that's just my interpretation of things at least! :)

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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Conan the SSJ » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:04 pm

Herms wrote:One of these days I'm really going to have to watch the Funi dub of the Bardock special just to how different it really is from the original.
May God have mercy on your soul. Come to think, I've heard the "Remastered" version added more dialogue.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Perfect » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:14 am

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Herms wrote:One of these days I'm really going to have to watch the Funi dub of the Bardock special just to how different it really is from the original.
May God have mercy on your soul. Come to think, I've heard the "Remastered" version added more dialogue.
It's not necessarily that bad. In all honestly, judging by how "Z Kai" is dubbed, I'd rather have the current scripts kept instead of a new dub with accurate scripts (Though I can't seem to understand why they didn't just directly translate the Japanese scripts in the first place).
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Dayspring » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:20 am

Godo wrote:
Dayspring wrote: It was ambiguous because the nature of the visions were done to torture him. In other words, this particular one was probably to let Bardock know Goku would escape the planet's destruction, only to have to encounter Freeza later on.
Eh, didn't Bardock smile when he was dying (right before he was 'sploded) ? He saw a vision of Goku fighting Freeza, right?
The first vision on Namek is the one mentioned in the OP. In the vision when he died, he saw an adult Goku about to fight Freeza. Tack that onto all his previous visions, and it clarifies that Goku would lead a full life (especially by what Saiyans consider to be fulfilling), that Goku won't get killed off in the cowardly way Freeza's destroying the other Saiyans, and that Goku will either die in combat (what Saiyans like) against Freeza or maybe even kill Freeza (what Bardock really likes).

So the previous vision was ambiguous, but the the final one ended up giving reason for Bardock to be happy.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Sun-Wukong » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:28 pm

Cold Skin wrote:It is highly contrasted with grandpa Gohan at the end of the movie, who immediately has a strong physical contact with Goku, grabing him with both hands and playing with him, an immediate contact which makes the boy smile and is a foreshadowing of how a "closer" kind of person will make him happier in his life.
Yeah, if he had been raised coldly by his biological father, he would have turned into Vegeta.
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Re: What was the meaning behind Bardock's vision of Goku?

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:13 pm

Sun-Wukong wrote: Yeah, if he had been raised coldly by his biological father, he would have turned into Tullece.
There, fixed that for ya. :wink:
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