That one interview

[Nazi Cola]

That one interview from the Super Otaku(sp?) Magazine where Toriyama allegedly stated Gotenks is a little bit stronger than Goku is a complete fake, isn't it? I mean, nobody can find this magazine or anything official, IIRC.

[Savage68]

Yes, this interview and the "Super Otaku Magazine" as a whole are both completely nonexistent.

[Herms]

Yeah, it's super-duper fake. Not only is there no such thing as "Super Otaku Magazine" (an implausible name to begin with, considering the stigma attached to the term "otaku" in Japan), but the name of the supposed interviewer is blatantly fake, the sort of thing someone with limited knowledge of Japanese names might throw together.

[caejones]

I'm interested to know where it actually originated from. Obviously it's from some E-liar... but which one, when and where was it first posted?
:sneak:

[ssjcj]

I have never heard of an interview like the one you described. What I gathered in the TV series was that Goten and Trunks were the next generation of fighters and that they will eventually be stronger than Goku, I think that was what Toriyama was going for at the time. At the point in the story when Gotenks fights I think Goku was probably stronger, judging by the experience Goku had and the training he had done in comparison with the younger fighters.

[caejones]

... What? It sounds like you're defending yourself from an accusation made mid-argument, and continuing said argument...

The very very fake interview I think claims that "Gotenkusu" is stronger than Goku. It also implies that Toriyama knew the series was ending despite it being a surprise to most everyone when it happened in Japan.

[Nazi Cola]

Huh, what about this?

http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/Main/Home.aspx

[Dayspring]

When people say "Gotenks is stronger than Goku," are they debating one form vs another? Because I never understood why this was a debate at all:

Evidence:
-Base Gotenks is shown to have gotten his ass kicked by Fat Boo off-panel, but survived.
-SSJ2 Majin Vegeta sacrificed himself because he knew he was going to be killed anyway.
-SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is stated to be as powerful as SSJ2 Goku.
-SSJ3 Goku could fight pretty damn well against Fat Boo.

Conclusion: Base Gotenks is stronger than SSJ2 Goku, but weaker than SSJ3 Goku.

Evidence:
-Goku knows Super Boo can kill him.
-SSJ Gotenks fought against Super Boo without dying.
-SSJ Gotenks didn't fight against Super Boo until the end.

Conclusion:
-SSJ Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku
OR
-SSJ Gotenks would have been killed by Super Boo eventually, implying he's only about as strong as SSJ3 Goku

Evidence: SSJ3 Gotenks is a HELL of a lot stronger than SSJ Gotenks

Conclusion: SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku





So is the debate that one of the non-SSJ3 Gotenks forms we see is stronger than SSJ3 Goku or what?

[Herms]

Huh, what about this?

http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/Main/Home.aspx

A) Obviously, the name's not quite right. The fake Toriyama interview was supposed to have run in a "Super Otaku Magazine", while that's "Otaku USA".

B) That's a US magazine, while "Super Otaku Magazine" was supposedly a Japanese magazine.

C) The "Super Otaku Magazine" interview was supposedly taken midway through the Boo arc's serialization, in the early to mid 1990s. I'm guessing this "Otaku USA" magazine hasn't been running for over 10 years.

D) The "Super Otaku Magainze" interview is fake. Fake. Fakeitty fake fake-fake fakefakefake fake fake mcFake. The person interviewing Toriyama has a name that does not exist in reality. The interview contradicts itself over whether it's occurring at the very start of the Boo arc's run, or towards the middle of it (ie when Gotenks appears). It has Toriyama flat-out refer to the impending end of the series, even though in reality this came as a last-minute surprise to the general public (even the second-to-last chapter only hints at a big announcement next time). Overall the interview reads like a poorly made fake thrown together by someone whose only concern was fabricating evidence that Goku is stronger than Gotenks and Piccolo is equal to Paikuhan. The odds of it being real are about equal to the odds that the moon is shaped like a carrot. It doesn't matter if there are real magazines whose names are sort of similar to the fake magazine mentioned in the fake interview. The interview is fake, plain and simple.

So is the debate that one of the non-SSJ3 Gotenks forms we see is stronger than SSJ3 Goku or what?

From my experience, the debate is over whether or not SSj3 Gotenks is stronger than SSj3 Goku. Why this would be a debate, well...blame the anime filler, I guess.

[Duo]

Just some idiot trying to make his opinion about some battle powers official. This one had me fooled...4 years ago.

[dbgtFO]

@Dayspring Just to point out we are not entirely sure of SSJ 3 Gotenks power compared to Goku's because Super Buu, when confronted by Gohan implies, that he was purposefully holding back against Gotenks, since he already knew a stronger opponent(Gohan) would appear.
As for that interview: Yep it's fake, totally!!!!
EDIT: here you can see the "alleged interview.

[Savage68]

Super Buu never implied that he pulled any of his punches against Gotenks. That wouldn't have served him any good. His ass was being handed to him prior to learning about the fusion's time limit, too.

[Herms]

EDIT: here you can see the "alleged interview.

...So the author of that website claims to have worked for Toriyama, huh? ...Right...

Come to think of it, didn't the guy behind the equally bogus "Toriyama wrote his own daizenshuu" claims also say he worked for Toriyama? Is that website run by the same guy? I guess that's why he doesn't like the fake Super Otaku interview; he doesn't want other people crowding in on his whole "make up shit and claim Toriyama wrote it" racket.

[VegettoEX]

Clicked through to the home page and saw text lifted verbatim from our "Rumor Guide".

Yep.

[dbgtFO]

His ass was being handed to him prior to learning about the fusion's time limit, too.

Don't know if this is way off topic, but anyways: NO! SSJ 3 Gotenks only managed to connect one hit right after he left the ROSAT, after that Buu dodged one of Gotenks' punches and threw him at the Lookout destroying it. Super Buu then shaped himself like a ball and Gotenks trapped him with his Galatical Donuts attack and then proceeded to do the volleyball technique and when Buu failed to reemerge from the ground Gotenks then stated fusion only lasts so long and that he would have to wait an hour to fight him again.

After that Gotenks lays the smackdown and Buu seems to be losing, but when SSJ 3 runs out, Buu recovers easily from his damage implying Gotenks was never a threat, making his statement about feeling Gohan's power, thus implying him holding back in the previous fight, make a lot of sense!

@Herms
Well I really don't know, if he did in fact work with him, but the interviews he claims comes from the Daizenshuus, aren't they the real interviews? and not just something he made up?

[Senzu_Bean]

Buu only acknowledged Gohan's power after Gotenks fusion ended, thus he certainly wasn't holding back.

[Herms]

@Herms
Well I really don't know, if he did in fact work with him, but the interviews he claims comes from the Daizenshuus, aren't they the real interviews? and not just something he made up?

Those really are translations of the Toriyama interviews from Daizenshuu 3 and 6. However, I'm cynically inclined to assume that he just stole them from some other site, the same way he ripped off the Daizenshuu EX Rumor Guide. Either way, the idea that he worked with Toriyama is absurd. Toriyama says in the SEG: Story Volume that he's only ever had one assistant, named Matsumoto, who worked with him from Dr. Slump all the way through DB.

[Savage68]

SSJ 3 Gotenks only managed to connect one hit right after he left the ROSAT, after that Buu dodged one of Gotenks' punches and threw him at the Lookout destroying it. Super Buu then shaped himself like a ball and Gotenks trapped him with his Galatical Donuts attack and then proceeded to do the volleyball technique and when Buu failed to reemerge from the ground Gotenks then stated fusion only lasts so long and that he would have to wait an hour to fight him again.

After that Gotenks lays the smackdown and Buu seems to be losing, but when SSJ 3 runs out, Buu recovers easily from his damage implying Gotenks was never a threat, making his statement about feeling Gohan's power, thus implying him holding back in the previous fight, make a lot of sense!

I could've gone without the bedtime story. If a slightly biased page-by-page synopsis of the fight was worth posting, I would've just posted it myself. Fact is, Gotenks was stronger than Buu, because he out-performed Buu, and nothing suggests that either of them held back. Buu was actually trying to fight back, and still ended up having the same amount of power -- if not, more -- thrown right back at him. IIRC, Piccolo mentions how Buu's mental state is on the fritz because he's never fought anyone with strength like Gotenks', and that he was desperate / going all-out. You can't just make this wild assumption that Buu was stronger than Gotenks because of his regenerative capabilities, because that's just silliness, at it's finest. The general consensus (on this board, alone) is that, in order to inflict any significant damage to Buu, you gotta be a whooole lot stronger than him. You know, like Vegetto and Buuhan. Kid Buu and Mr. Buu. Gotenks was only marginally stronger than Buu, so you can't honestly expect for your argument to hold up when it's pitted against the manga's examples. Seriously, now. Kid Buu wasn't all roughed-up at the end of his fight with Goku (or at any other point), despite their powers being evenly matched. Does that imply that Kid Buu was stronger than Goku, in any way, shape or form? No (or rather... NO! ). It implies that Kid Buu's regeneration and stamina is incredibly resilient, which is what makes any Majin Buu a Majin Buu. When Super Buu's rattling off every thought that went through his mind to Gohan, did he mention anything about handling Gotenks with kid gloves? I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty darn sure that he didn't. And like I mentioned before, it wouldn't have done any good for Buu to allow someone that's supposedly weaker than himself to inflict as much damage as he did (the Volleyball, the Death Missile Chain, the mouth blast, and the melee attacks near the end). If the pink guy wanted to stall, he could've done so without seemingly losing his battle for no apparent reason.

[Titan]

Toriyama says in the SEG: Story Volume that he's only ever had one assistant, named Matsumoto, who worked with him from Dr. Slump all the way through DB.

Do you know anything else about that guy named Matsumoto?

[Dayspring]

His ass was being handed to him prior to learning about the fusion's time limit, too.

Don't know if this is way off topic, but anyways: NO! SSJ 3 Gotenks only managed to connect one hit right after he left the ROSAT, after that Buu dodged one of Gotenks' punches and threw him at the Lookout destroying it. Super Buu then shaped himself like a ball and Gotenks trapped him with his Galatical Donuts attack and then proceeded to do the volleyball technique and when Buu failed to reemerge from the ground Gotenks then stated fusion only lasts so long and that he would have to wait an hour to fight him again.

After that Gotenks lays the smackdown and Buu seems to be losing, but when SSJ 3 runs out, Buu recovers easily from his damage implying Gotenks was never a threat, making his statement about feeling Gohan's power, thus implying him holding back in the previous fight, make a lot of sense!

Being able to regenerate is not proof of holding back. By that logic, Nail was toying with Freeza.

To make Boo's ki drop, you need to make a wound that hurt him. He can still regenerate, as with Mr Boo against Kid Boo or Super Boo against Vegetto, but his ki will stay lowered in those instances. To make a wound that causes him pain, you need to be stronger than him. How much stronger is unknown, but considering Goku was convinced Super Boo would insta-kill him shows that he's nothing compared to SSJ3 Gotenks.

Besides, it doesn't matter: when Vegeta says to wish back the Earth, Goku guesses it's so that Kaioshin can teleport Gohan or the kids to defeat Kid Boo where Goku failed. If Gotenks were weaker than Goku, why would Goku think Gotenks would be able to defeat Kid Boo?