Who beat Frieza on Earth in Future Trunks' timeline?

[LeprikanGT]

Was it Goku? If so wouldn't Trunks have known he wouldn't have had to step in and take care of Frieza himself, thus changing the timeline already....or did anywhere in the manga/anime explain that part?

[Kaboom]

Was it Goku? If so wouldn't Trunks have known he wouldn't have had to step in and take care of Freeza himself, thus changing the timeline already....or did anywhere in the manga/anime explain that part?

Yep, it was Goku. In Trunks' timeline he apparently teleported to Earth once Freeza arrived, and took out both him and King Cold. Trunks didn't know about Goku's Instant Movement, though, so he thought there had been some sort of timeline change. Thus he stepped in, but if not Goku would have teleported and taken action as originally.

[Bussani]

It's like Kaboom said. I think the manga explains it clearly.

Goku: "I want to thank you...for defeating Freeza and his men. I was too soft on him... I should have finished him on planet Namek."
Trunks: "You were meant to defeat him, but for some reason there was a time discrepancy, and you couldn't. So I had to intervene."
Goku: "Yeah... His spaceship was faster than mine and he beat me here. I was planning to clobber him for good this time, but then you came along..."
Trunks: "You still had three hours until your arrival. You couldn't have made it."
Goku: "Well...maybe, but...I learned a new skill."
Trunks: "A new skill...?"
Goku: "Yeah... What they call teleportation."
Trunks: "Teleportation?!"
Goku: "Some guys on planet Yadrat taught me. They're mysterious... Not much strength, but they know a lot of weird stuff."
Trunks: "Th-then... I changed history for no reason..."

I guess the question that remains is why Bulma never told Trunks about Goku's teleportation skill. Maybe Goku never showed it to everyone in Trunks' timeline? Or maybe Bulma forgot or didn't think it was important.

[Fox666]

Bulma doesn't know much about Goku's techniques. Would she be able to tell Trunks anything about the Kaio-ken and that stuff?

And afterall Goku stayed for a few years before dying.

[Hellspawn28]

I'm pretty sure Goku killed both Freeza and Cold just as fast as Trunks did. I doubt Goku went all out against Freeza on Earth like he did on Namke.

[Bussani]

Bulma doesn't know much about Goku's techniques. Would she be able to tell Trunks anything about the Kaio-ken and that stuff?

Bulma was the one who asked him what new techniques he learned in the manga-timeline, and Goku demonstrated teleportation for her and everyone else. And it's not like it's an unimportant detail; they knew to tell Trunks exactly where Goku's pod would land, but left out that Goku teleported to the battle and thus wasn't in it when it landed?

[Fox666]

Trunks commented that Goku wouldn't came in time, and Goku said it was the teleport. Wasn't like that?

Either way that would not have happened in the future...

[cpd12589]

Goku definitely killed Mecha Frieza and King Cold in Future Trunks's timeline but Future Trunks obviously didn't know what happened in great detail otherwise he probably wouldn't have risked seeing all the other Z Fighters and Bulma. It is strange that Future Gohan didn't tell Future Trunks about Goku's IT and how he arrived just in time to take out Mecha Frieza and King Cold.

[Bussani]

Trunks commented that Goku wouldn't came in time, and Goku said it was the teleport. Wasn't like that?

Either way that would not have happened in the future...

Do you mean that the conversation between Trunks and Goku wouldn't have happened? Of course not, but this one...

Vegeta: "I know you... You wouldn't just leave without gaining something... They have no strength, but they use strange techniques. I'll bet you were learning from them...!"
Goku: "Bingo! You're no dummy, Vegeta."
Kuririn: "I get it! That's why you didn't come back until now!"
Bulma: "So what kind of techniques were they?! Show us!!"
*Goku shows them teleportation.*

This should still have happened. And I notice you're ignoring that they apparently knew where Goku's ship landed, but left out that he wasn't in it. Didn't they know? Why didn't they know?

[dbgtFO]

This should still have happened. And I notice you're ignoring that they apparently knew where Goku's ship landed, but left out that he wasn't in it. Didn't they know? Why didn't they know?

20 years had gone by, Bulma was getting a little senile

[Piccolo Daimao]

I guess the question that remains is why Bulma never told Trunks about Goku's teleportation skill. Maybe Goku never showed it to everyone in Trunks' timeline? Or maybe Bulma forgot or didn't think it was important.

Yeah, I'd go with the theory that Bulma had a brain fart and forgot when telling Trunks what to do before he went back in time. Or perhaps Bulma never knew that Goku used Instant Movement to teleport and defeat Freeza and King Cold, and then a long time later (when Bulma would've forgotten the time Goku defeated Freeza and King Cold), Bulma discovered Goku's spacepod one day, worked out the time it got there and assumed Goku landed in his spacepod and they never saw it land.

Or maybe Trunks or Cell's time travel mucked up the timeline and the conversation that led up to Goku showing everyone Instant Movement never happened. Of course, it should've happened, but you know...time travel's weird.

[Fox666]

And I notice you're ignoring that they apparently knew where Goku's ship landed, but left out that he wasn't in it. Didn't they know? Why didn't they know?

If Trunks knew the time the space pod would arrive because he was told in the future, he wouldn't think that the time Goku would came changed.

So I assume his time machines had some device that calculated Goku's space pod arrival, like Freeza's ship. Otherwise it's a plot hole.....

[the_abberration]

And I notice you're ignoring that they apparently knew where Goku's ship landed, but left out that he wasn't in it. Didn't they know? Why didn't they know?

If Trunks knew the time the space pod would arrive because he was told in the future, he wouldn't think that the time Goku would came changed.

So I assume his time machines had some device that calculated Goku's space pod arrival, like Freeza's ship. Otherwise it's a plot hole.....

Or quite simply, in Trunks time line Goku didn't use IT and he and Freeza landed about the same time. Events happening differently in the manga timeline was just a reflection of how Trunks' and Cell's appearance was altering that time.

[dbgtFO]

Or quite simply, in Trunks time line Goku didn't use IT and he and Freeza landed about the same time. Events happening differently in the manga timeline was just a reflection of how Trunks' and Cell's appearance was altering that time.

No! The ship was delayed and such a random difference would have been pointed out. The story through Goku's lines imply, that Goku teleported to Earth to fight Freeza, before he made his move.

[the_abberration]

No! The ship was delayed and such a random difference would have been pointed out. The story through Goku's lines imply, that Goku teleported to Earth to fight Freeza, before he made his move.

There is nothing to dictate that because Goku did it in the manga timeline, it happened exactly the same way in Trunks' time. For all we know, Goku and Freeza could have arrived at the same time, or Goku could have been the one to arrive ahead of Freeza. Also, it could have been the battle with Freeza and King Cold (vs #19 & #20 in the manga time line) that brought about Goku's heart virus and he died not long after. Which is why he never used IT in front of or told anyone he learned it.

The fact that Trunks' does not have that knowledge, when it seems it would have been something that Gohan and Bulma would have mentioned is implication that something may have happened to prevent Goku from revealing that ability.

[Bussani]

The fact that Trunks' does not have that knowledge, when it seems it would have been something that Gohan and Bulma would have mentioned is implication that something may have happened to prevent Goku from revealing that ability.

Or maybe Trunks or Cell's time travel mucked up the timeline and the conversation that led up to Goku showing everyone Instant Movement never happened. Of course, it should've happened, but you know...time travel's weird.

I find that hard to imagine. He was so quick to tell everyone who would listen in the manga timeline. Why was he so secretive in Trunks' timeline?

If Trunks knew the time the space pod would arrive because he was told in the future, he wouldn't think that the time Goku would came changed.

He never actually said that he thought Goku's arrival time had changed, only that there was a discrepancy so he couldn't be the one to beat Freeza. If Goku's arrival time was as expected, then he must have thought Freeza was early.

So I assume his time machines had some device that calculated Goku's space pod arrival, like Freeza's ship.

I guess that's possible, but it still brings us to the same problem: for some reason, Bulma gave him practically no information on how events played out. It's like she just said, "This is the date. You'll figure it out." Which is weird if his plan was to only meet Goku and not interfere with anything else...

Or quite simply, in Trunks time line Goku didn't use IT and he and Freeza landed about the same time. Events happening differently in the manga timeline was just a reflection of how Trunks' and Cell's appearance was altering that time.

Again, possible, but...that's like the time travel version of "a wizard did it". Besides, I think the conversation between Goku and Trunks implies the exact opposite--that Trunks changed how things were meant to play out by stepping in. I guess he could have been mistaken, but I prefer not to ignore things the author implied if possible.

[the_abberration]

I find that hard to imagine. He was so quick to tell everyone who would listen in the manga timeline. Why was he so secretive in Trunks' timeline?

Simple. That is if you go with the theory that the fight in the manga between #19 & #20 triggered the heart virus. Take the fight that Goku had with #19 & #20 in the manga and sub it with Freeza and Cold in the original one (since chronologically speaking that fight would have taken place first in Trunks' time line). Freeza and Goku land on Earth. Since they landed approximately around the same time, Goku wasn't able to tell the others about IT (and since he wasn't running late there would be no need to use IT). During the fight with Freeza and Cold, Goku suffers from the heart virus and collapes. Since there was no Trunks to warn him, no medicine, and no SSJ Vegeta to intercede he slipped into a coma and died.

If you take the medicine out of the equation in the manga time line, then Goku would have died not long after his fight with #19 & #20. So it would be plausible that the same could have happened in the original time line, since Trunks does mention in the manga that Goku dies not long after his fight with Freeza.

Again, possible, but...that's like the time travel version of "a wizard did it".

Think about this. Freeza and Cold die in both time lines, but under different circumstances. Goku suffers the heart disease and dies in both time lines, but under different circumstances. Gohan goes SSJ, but under different circumstances. Dr Gero dies in both time lines (quite possibly under different circumstances). While events did play out in both time lines, the timing and circumstances of those events were thrown off.

So if Goku didn't IT in the manga time line due to Trunks' interference, couldn't it be possible that the Goku of the original timeline did not teleport as well, due to different circumstances and timing (he was acutally going to land at the same time as Freeza)? And that the timing was thrown off in the manga time line to keep the similarity (time's way of self correcting for Trunks interference)?

If you think about it, Trunks' could have avoided most of this by just showing up after Goku came to Earth and killed Freeza, since he had the location and time of the pod's landing. Also, wouldn't it have been just as easy for Goku to teleport over to Freeza's ship before it landed in the original time line (or in the manga) if he was going to be late? Again this implies that Goku may not have needed to use IT.

Besides, I think the conversation between Goku and Trunks implies the exact opposite--that Trunks changed how things were meant to play out by stepping in. I guess he could have been mistaken, but I prefer not to ignore things the author implied if possible.

I think Mr. Toriyama meant that conversation to be about what Goku would have done in the manga time line, to reinforce Trunks' theory of throwing off the timing of things by changing the past.

[Bussani]

I'm just going to be brutally honest: none of that made a lick of sense to me.

[the_abberration]

I'm just going to be brutally honest: none of that made a lick of sense to me.

Basically I was saying that it wasn't a wizard, it was a variation of the harmony and predestined time line theories. Someone alters events and prevents a death, only to have outside forces self correct by claiming the one who should have died. If you've ever seen any of the Final Destination movies, it uses a similar principle. Or better still, if you've watched LOST, think about what happened with Desmond and Charlie

Applying this to time travel in DBZ, I'll give two examples.

Large scale. Even though Trunks travels back in time to prevent Goku's heart virus and death, Goku still suffers from the heart virus and later still ends up dying in the manga. Although the timing and situation (and in the case of how Goku died) were different, the results still happened. In both time lines Goku was predestined to have the heart virus and die regardless.

Small scale. In the original time line Goku never got to meet #17 & #18 in battle. Even though Trunks' alters the time line, Goku still never meets #17 & #18 in battle in the manga time line. Again this was a predestined event in both time lines. Even though events transpired differently between the time lines, Goku was never meant to meet them.

Using these two examples of how the manga plays out these points we were told by Trunks' occurring in his time, I believe that even though Goku tells Trunks about IT in the manga (implying that he could have used it in the original time line), since we are shown that Goku actually landed in the space pod in the spot and time that Trunks' informed the others he would, as well as not having any knowledge of IT prior to Goku telling him, it is highly likely that Goku was predestined to not use IT (to reach Earth) in both time lines.

Goku would have never had any conversation or had the opportunity to show IT in the original time line, because he would have landed on time, fought Freeza, got sick and collapse, and not long after, die.

I've probably confused you more. I'm sorry

[Senzu_Bean]

It is the butterfly effect. The fact there was one people more at Earth at that time (Trunks) made Cold's spaceship arrive earlier than it did in Trunks' future.