Who can survive the Mafuba?

[CatouttaHell]

Mutaito and Kame-sennin used the Mafuba and instantly died from using it. Ignoring Anime filler, Tenshinhan would have most likely died if he had been able to use it. However, Kami-sama used it without any harm to him or his host body, and Piccolo reflected it back effortlessly.

Can non-Earthlings just do it without any harm to them? Do you have to be above a certain power level to do it? Do you have to be good enough at using Ki to not end up killing yourself (maybe similiar to how Tenshinhan was eventually able to go from having the Kikoho be incredibly risky to him any time he uses it to being able to do the Shin Kikoho, which is a spammed Kikoho?) Or did Toriyama just somehow manage to forget that the Mafuba kills you by the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai?

[Rocketman]

I'm willing to bet it's "if you're strong enough, you can take it", since that's the general principle that everything in Dragonball operates on.

[TripleRach]

I've always assumed you had to use it successfully (IE, hit someone with it) before it would kill you, which would explain why God survived it when it was countered, and why Tenshinhan could practice it in training. But I suppose it's possible that someone could figure out a way to overcome the death sentence, and the two people that did so were skilled enough to have plausibly done that.

[CatouttaHell]

I've always assumed you had to use it successfully (IE, hit someone with it) before it would kill you, which would explain why God survived it when it was countered, and why Tenshinhan could practice it in training.

Interesting point. I always did wonder how he could use it many times during training and not die. Though Tsuru-sennin invented the Kikoho and taught it to potentially countless of students and didn't die from it either.

[Bardock the Mexican]

Mutaito and Kame-sennin used the Mafuba and instantly died from using it. Ignoring Anime filler, Tenshinhan would have most likely died if he had been able to use it. However, Kami-sama used it without any harm to him or his host body, and Piccolo reflected it back effortlessly.

Can non-Earthlings just do it without any harm to them? Do you have to be above a certain power level to do it? Do you have to be good enough at using Ki to not end up killing yourself (maybe similiar to how Tenshinhan was eventually able to go from having the Kikoho be incredibly risky to him any time he uses it to being able to do the Shin Kikoho, which is a spammed Kikoho?) Or did Toriyama just somehow manage to forget that the Mafuba kills you by the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai?

The weakness of the mafuba is that it is a specific use attack (demon containment) and doesn't have the versatility of a ki attack (single shot, beam pushed blast, etc) and is hard to figure out. In what we do see of it, it does kill the user and the contexts in which it's used it is made to fit what's going on at the time.

Could a non human do the mafuba and live? Perhaps. We saw Piccolo Junior reverse one and live. That might imply that he can do it and not die.

[Gaffer Tape]

I've always assumed you had to use it successfully (IE, hit someone with it) before it would kill you, which would explain why God survived it when it was countered, and why Tenshinhan could practice it in training.

I could buy that, and it's always been the reasoning I used to explain to myself why Tenshinhan's practice was okay. But as far as God goes, it seems to me he used it explicitly because he intended it to be a non-lethal method of getting rid of Piccolo. If he had any thought that using the Mafuba would kill him, which would in turn kill Piccolo, why not just kill Piccolo, unless he thought that would just be the easiest way to kill Piccolo?

[Kroni_Hunter]

I've always assumed you had to use it successfully (IE, hit someone with it) before it would kill you, which would explain why God survived it when it was countered, and why Tenshinhan could practice it in training.

I could buy that, and it's always been the reasoning I used to explain to myself why Tenshinhan's practice was okay. But as far as God goes, it seems to me he used it explicitly because he intended it to be a non-lethal method of getting rid of Piccolo. If he had any thought that using the Mafuba would kill him, which would in turn kill Piccolo, why not just kill Piccolo, unless he thought that would just be the easiest way to kill Piccolo?

Or why not just kill himself, it's all the same in the end.

[Fox666]

Didn't Kami explicitly says he upgraded the technique to not kill him?

Otherwise he commit a HUGE mistake

Or why not just kill himself, it's all the same in the end.

Actually he tells Tenshinhan that a god cannot commit suicide. Of course he could lower his Ki and ask someone else to do so (i.e. Mister Popo) like he did with Tenshinhan.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Didn't Kami explicitly says he upgraded the technique to not kill him?

Otherwise he commit a HUGE mistake

God said that the humans had shown him a way to defeat Piccolo without killing himself. I don't think he stated that he upgraded it. And here's what Daizenshuu 2 says.

A secret art which Kame-sennin's master, Mutaito, devised in order to seal up Piccolo Daimao, the incarnation of evil. Firing all one's life energy from the palm of one's hands, this creates a violent, spiraling wind which draws in the opponent, sealing them into an airtight container affixed with magic charms. A normal person will perish when they use this secret art. Kame-sennin fired it at the revived Piccolo Daimao in exchange for his own life, but it ultimately failed.

Since Namekians are classed as humans, I would assume that a god doesn't count as human anymore. Herms' human condition thread provides some good insight into this.

As for why Piccolo didn't die, he didn't actually use the Mafûba. He only reversed God's. Therefore, he wouldn't die from it.

And I think Tenshinhan didn't die from using the Mafûba because he didn't have a target. He was only practicing it.

Though Tsuru-sennin invented the Kikoho and taught it to potentially countless of students and didn't die from it either.

Well, the Kikôhô doesn't mean instant death. Even if you don't die, it shortens your lifespan. Tenshinhan didn't die when he used it to destroy the arena at the 22nd TB, nor did he when he blasted that crater for everyone to shield from Piccolo's shockwave at the 23rd TB. Tsuru-sennin was only teaching it to his students, so it's not as if he'd have to put all his energy into demonstrating the technique for them.

[Bussani]

I always thought Tenshinhan wasn't actually using the Mafuba when he was practicing, but just some other generic ki manipulation to practice the aim or something. But that was just my assumption, and I think Rachel's explanation is a pretty logical one.

[Coycoy88]

I'm curious... Could the Mafuba be used against extrememly powerful opponents? Such as Frieza, Cell, or even Buu? Or does it only work specifically against demons? i'm not very familiar with the technique.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I always thought Tenshinhan wasn't actually using the Mafuba when he was practicing, but just some other generic ki manipulation to practice the aim or something. But that was just my assumption, and I think Rachel's explanation is a pretty logical one.

Although God explained that he'd found a way to defeat Piccolo without killing himself, since a god cannot commit suicide. So, one way or another, God wasn't planning to die using the Mafûba. Which is why I go with the explanation that a god is not a "normal person", therefore he cannot die using it.

My theory is that Tenshinhan saw Kame-sennin use the Mafûba and copied it, like he copied Yamcha's Kamehameha and how Goku and Kuririn copied the Taiyo-ken. It's a bit hard to explain how he could perform the Mafûba with no target, but hey, that's Dragon Ball for ya.

I'm curious... Could the Mafuba be used against extrememly powerful opponents? Such as Freeza, Cell, or even Buu? Or does it only work specifically against demons? i'm not very familiar with the technique.

Mutaito devised the technique specifically to seal up Piccolo Daimao, which is why it's called "Demon Seal Wave". But that doesn't necessarily mean that it only works against demons. I don't know how it'll work against villains like Freeza, Cell or Boo. This is similar to a thread a long time ago about whether or not Akkuman's Akumaito Beam could work against the later villains.

[Gaffer Tape]

Mutaito devised the technique specifically to seal up Piccolo Daimao, which is why it's called "Demon Seal Wave". But that doesn't necessarily mean that it only works against demons. I don't know how it'll work against villains like Freeza, Cell or Boo. This is similar to a thread a long time ago about whether or not Akkuman's Akumaito Beam could work against the later villains.

Well, considering that it worked to seal God, and God's not a demon (and he was inhabiting a human body), I guess it stands that it can be used on non-demons, despite the name.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Mutaito devised the technique specifically to seal up Piccolo Daimao, which is why it's called "Demon Seal Wave". But that doesn't necessarily mean that it only works against demons. I don't know how it'll work against villains like Freeza, Cell or Boo. This is similar to a thread a long time ago about whether or not Akkuman's Akumaito Beam could work against the later villains.

Well, considering that it worked to seal God, and God's not a demon (and he was inhabiting a human body), I guess it stands that it can be used on non-demons, despite the name.

Yeah, you're right.

[CatouttaHell]

I assume that if someone did seal a DBZ villain up they'd just break out by being too powerful for it, for the sake of the plot. Or Boo would just break off a tiny piece of himself and reform outside of the Denshi Jar.