King Cold

[kaialone]

We all know that Freezer´s species can tranform ,yes? Do you think the form we see King Cold in is like Freezer´s second form?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think it's his final form, actually. I don't think Cold was in a suppressed form like Freeza was.

[CatouttaHell]

I heard a theory from someone else that King Cold is in his final form and that Freeza modeled his second form after his and I agree with it. I just don't see why King Cold would show up massively suppressed to fight a guy who defeated his own son so badly.

[Herms]

We all know that Freezer´s species can tranform ,yes?

Well, Freeza can transform, and Coola can too if you include the movies, but I don't think we have enough information to tell if it's a trait common to their entire race. That'd be kinda like seeing Goku become a Super Saiyan 3 or Goten and Trunks fusing into Gotenks and saying that these skills were found in all Saiyans.

[Kaboom]

I talked about this when Mike and I chatted about Freeza's forms on the Podcast. Long story short, I think it's designed far too similarly to Freeza's suppressive form to NOT have been regarded as one. Freeza served as a sort of template for how his race's transformations work, and Coola followed suit with the forms we saw him in.

I don't think Toriyama is so, shall we say, "cryptic" in his art that he'd draw something similar to one of the suppressive forms, yet consider it to be a true form. That'd be like saying some Saiyans are already born with golden hair, green eyes with visible pupils, and no eyebrows... and say it's their base form rather than Super Saiyan 3. There are visual trends at work, and Occam's Razor would suggest not overcomplicating it.

We're led to believe in both the manga and guidebooks that Cold is, overall, not quite as strong as Freeza. So if he has less power, then he may have less extra forms to help hold it back.

As to why he wouldn't transform against Trunks... remember, it took a long time for Freeza to bring out his true form. Enough that everyone he was fighting had more than enough time to run around, injure and heal each other, and try to formulate a plan. Trunks wouldn't allow Cold that time, and he'd probably know it.

[Herms]

There are visual trends at work, and Occam's Razor would suggest not overcomplicating it.

I think assuming he can transform is over-complicating it, frankly. He's only shown in one form, nothing at all is said about him being able to transform, going strictly by the manga we don't even know if any other members of Freeza's species can transform at all (when explaining his transformations Freeza even says "in my case", not "in my species' case)...the simplest thing is to assume that he just has the one form.

I think it's simplest to assume that Cold looks like Freeza's second form because Toriyama was being lazy and recycled the design. That seems most in keeping with what we know of all he handles this stuff. You might ask "well in that case why didn't he recycle Freeza's final form?", but it would be visually boring to see Freeza in his final form (albeit cyborg-ized) hanging out with someone who looked extremely similar. Toriyama's villainous pairs tend to involve opposites: tiny, scrawny Vegeta and huge, bulky Nappa; pretty boy Zarbon and ugly monster Dodoria; fat, short, young No.19 and scrawny, tall, old No.20; big menacing Dabra and tiny, weak-looking Babidi. 17 and 18 are kind of the exceptions, but at the very least they're opposite genders. In this light I don't think there's much more to Cold being big and bulky other than that it offers a contrast to tiny, streamlined Freeza. And when you combine "big and bulky" with "needs to have some visual connection to Freeza" you get "resembles Freeza's second form". Viola! He probably could have used Freeza's third form as a template too, but that probably wouldn't seem very kingly.

[Kaboom]

Well, to shorten all that, all I'm trying to say really is it sure as heck LOOKS like what we were shown as a suppressed form. Just like if we saw a Saiyan with long golden hair and no eyebrows, we'd know from looking that it's Super Saiyan 3, and wouldn't really have any reason to assume otherwise.

[CatouttaHell]

He looks like a badarse, imposing guy to me. Really, why would he show up against a guy who beat up 100% Freeza suppressed? There's not even a single statement that implies that he has more power hidden or that he can transform.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Well, to shorten all that, all I'm trying to say really is it sure as heck LOOKS like what we were shown as a suppressed form. Just like if we saw a Saiyan with long golden hair and no eyebrows, we'd know from looking that it's Super Saiyan 3, and wouldn't really have any reason to assume otherwise.

It's looks kinda similar, yeah. But they're of the same race, so that's to be expected. I don't think there's really enough evidence to definitively say that Cold can transform. Going strictly by the manga, transforming could simply be a special ability of Freeza's, since he couldn't control his full power very well. Cold might not have that problem. After all, Freeza did say "In my case..." as Herms pointed out.

[Herms]

Well, to shorten all that, all I'm trying to say really is it sure as heck LOOKS like what we were shown as a suppressed form. Just like if we saw a Saiyan with long golden hair and no eyebrows, we'd know from looking that it's Super Saiyan 3, and wouldn't really have any reason to assume otherwise.

Saiyans are different though. With them, it's actually established what a regular Saiyan looks like, what a Super Saiyan looks like, etc. We don't have that information with Freeza's race; we have no real way of knowing what's normal for them. And we only see Cold in a situation where it wouldn't make much sense for him to be suppressing his power (going off to fight his most powerful enemy and all) and he only looks similar, not identical, to Freeza's second form. I mean, if you saw a Saiyan with long golden hair, but who had eyebrows and was just sitting around at the beach drinking martinis, would you assume he was a Super Saiyan 3 about to go into battle, or would you maybe suspect he was just a Saiyan who had dyed his hair gold or something?

[Fox666]

Cold is pratically identical to Freeza's second form. The real differences that you can tell is that the horns are vaguely differently shaped. In terms of colors, his horns are stripped instead of his arms and legs, like Freeza. And of course, Cold is much taller than Freeza in his second form.

The saiyans hair aren't identical either. I assume that Cold and Freeza have differences like two dogs are different from each other. Or in terms of character design, the author simply wanted a little variation.

I wouldn't say he wanted to imply that Cold is supressing his power (since it's stated that his Ki is similar to Freeza's in his last form, and Freeza still claims to be the #1 while Cold is standing at his side), but rather that Toriyama enoyed the visual of Freeza in his second form.

Edit: Looking again, it seems Cold don't have a armor-shaped shell like Freeza's does (since you can see his shoulders and middle of the chest). Maybe he isn't meant to represent what Freeza's second form does.

Of course he also don't have the "purple crystals" Freeza has on his shoulders and chest in all of his forms, so this might also be a variant of Cold's body. Coola seems to be quite different from Freeza, and he was also designed by Toriyama, don't?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Edit: Looking again, it seems Cold don't have a armor-shaped shell like Freeza's does (since you can see his shoulders and middle of the chest). Maybe he isn't meant to represent what Freeza's second form does.

Of course he also don't have the "purple crystals" Freeza has on his shoulders and chest in all of his forms, so this might also be a variant of Cold's body. Coola seems to be quite different from Freeza, and he was also designed by Toriyama, don't?

It's possible he doesn't have the armor shell Freeza had, but if you notice, you never see Freeza's armor when he was wearing the battle jacket in his first form either. Despite the fact that the jewels on Freeza's shoulders should have stuck outside the armor on side views, Toriyama never drew them. It is very likely that his armor is just shaped differently, maybe Cold's resembles a tank top / wife beater? =P

[Piccolo Daimao]

Since we have such small information about King Cold or his species in general, I think it's safe to assume that he has just the one form. Coola's non-canon, and Freeza was the only one who was stated to have suppression forms to control his power.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Since we have such small information about King Cold or his species in general, I think it's safe to assume that he has just the one form. Coola's not canon, and Freeza was the only one who was stated to have suppression forms to control his power.

Dragon Ball canon isn't defined and depends on what each specific fan wants to include, VegettoEX has explained this fairly well throughout a few topics recently. I will agree that Coola doesn't belong to the two main continuities though.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Since we have such small information about King Cold or his species in general, I think it's safe to assume that he has just the one form. Coola's not canon, and Freeza was the only one who was stated to have suppression forms to control his power.

Dragon Ball canon isn't defined and depends on what each specific fan wants to include, VegettoEX has explained this fairly well throughout a few topics recently. I will agree that Coola doesn't belong to the two main continuities though.

Well...whatever. The manga seems to be the one and only universally accepted canon. But we're both right that Coola doesn't belong to the main continuities. Furthermore, the Coola movies cannot fit into the main timeline. For those reasons, I don't take Coola as canon.

[kaialone]

Oh ,this reminds me of something I wanted to ask for a long time. The members of the Ginyu Force are stated to be mutants ,so they differ from their original race a little ,right? Well I think I read somewhere that Freezer and his family are mtants ,too and that most of the other members of their species arent as strong as they are.Though I cant remeber where I read that and it cold be just a rumor ,that why I wanted to ask if somebody else heard that?

[CatouttaHell]

Oh ,this reminds me of something I wanted to ask for a long time. The members of the Ginyu Force are stated to be mutants ,so they differ from their original race a little ,right? Well I think I read somewhere that Freezer and his family are mtants ,too and that most of the other members of their species arent as strong as they are.Though I cant remeber where I read that and it cold be just a rumor ,that why I wanted to ask if somebody else heard that?

Never heard anything like that before. I'd say it's most likely false; we get VERY little official information on Freeza's race and family. IIRC there's not even an official name for his species.

...Meanwhile we're flooded with tons of random Saiya-jin backstory information.

[Herms]

Oh ,this reminds me of something I wanted to ask for a long time. The members of the Ginyu Force are stated to be mutants ,so they differ from their original race a little ,right? Well I think I read somewhere that Freezer and his family are mtants ,too and that most of the other members of their species arent as strong as they are.Though I cant remeber where I read that and it cold be just a rumor ,that why I wanted to ask if somebody else heard that?

Toriyama said something kinda like that in one of the issues of Viz's Shonen Jump. If I remember right, it was Freeza's grandfather who was supposed to be the initial mutant.

[Eire]

Any further informations? I must feed my occupational curiosity.

[kaialone]

Toriyama said something kinda like that in one of the issues of Viz's Shonen Jump. If I remember right, it was Freeza's grandfather who was supposed to be the initial mutant.

Ha!I knew Oh memory of mine thank you for not letting me down.And also great thanks to you Herms for knowing all this stuff ^^