It just happened Freeza was cocky and left himself wide open by understimating Trunks. Why he would waste his time tooling Freeza until he decides to power up? It's way easier for Trunks to just take the shot and kill him.dragon boss z wrote:Gohan probably told him he could power up, but he had no way of knowing exactly to what extent. Trunks just knew he would win because he wasn't a pushover. When it comes to fighting Frieza is at a big disadvantage for not being able to sense ki, which was probably one of the major reasons Trunks got the drop on him. Also if Trunks was so confident in taking them both at once power wise, why did he decide to set Frieza up for a surprise attack? Why not just casually walk up to him like he did to King Cold? Imo it was because Trunks knew he couldn't take them both together likely, but Cold by himslef wasn't much.
Good catch, you're right.They didn't seem amped to me, and Frieza thought they should all be able to hurt Goku.
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I don't think Vegeta's perfomance places him much above Trunks for a lot of factors. #18 was still playing with Vegeta, Trunks was caught with his guard open, and the fact that Vegeta is a little stronger than Trunks can be significant on the Trunks/18 gap, like how Zarbon being a bit above that Dodoria made a lot of difference on his fight against Vegeta.I don't really think Frieza got much stronger and it was stated that ssj Vegeta was above Trunks, I don't think it was really that close since Vegeta actually put up a fight against 18 before getting tired and Trunks did practically nothing.
Yeah, he sounded like Goku's cheerleader, lol. The scene doesn't make any sense if Goku is weaker than he was three year ago, though.I mean Tien that entire fight just sounded like he had no idea what he was talking about. He just seemed like he was there to be a hype man.
I don't think the fact he was never directly stated to be stronger than Freeza means much. Kuririn was never directly stated to be stronger than Tenshinhan, after all. Everyone being shocked by Piccolo's power, including Vegeta, when he's fighting #20 heavily implies he's a beast on the Android Arc for me.Yes, I'm aware they use Frieza as a measuring stick, that's why if Piccolo was truly stronger than Frieza I think something like that would of been mentioned, but it wasn't. We have direct statements for everyone stronger than Frieza though. Trunks was mentioned to be stronger than Frieza multiple times even though we obviously knew that since he killed him, Vegeta was stated to be stronger than Trunks, the androids were stated to be stronger than Frieza, and even Cell was mentioned stronger than Frieza. Literally every single character stronger than Frieza was mentioned to be stronger than Frieza, except Piccolo, 19, and 20. 19 and 20 don't have power levels so I could understand them, but you would think someone would of mentioned if Piccoo was above Frieza or above ssj Trunks from before.
Piccolo left a mark on Nappa:I agree the mark was weird, but it happened. And Goku's attack didn't seem quite as strong as Vegeta's and 20 is stronger than 19 so that could explain it not happening to 20.
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And Vegeta left a mark on Freeza:
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They weren't as flashy and 19's mark, but my point still. Marks don't mean much on off guard attacks IMO.
I don't think the fact it all happened pretty fast difficults their sensing. Everybody could gauge 50% Goku's power afterall, and he showed his power on a few seconds.They knew it was well above their own. But none of them seemed to actually mention the level of power or how crazy it was. It all happened pretty fast and it's not like they have scouters to measure it. All they probably knew was it was above them by a lot.
Except the sequence with Cold heavily implies it wasn't Trunks' sword that made him accomplish the kill, but his own power. Also, Goku was bloodlusted on Freeza. He expressed many times he was furious and said he was going to kill him multiple times, even more when he killed Kuririn. Him letting Freeza alive seemed like it was a change on his heart.What's your definition of considerably stronger? Imo if Frieza was at 100% the difference between him and Trunks wouldn't of been much different than him and Goku on Namek. The difference is Trunks is a more ruthless fighter with a weapon. I mean imagine if ssj Goku had a sword and was bloodlusted on Namek. Pretty sure he would of cut him apart.
No matter how you look at it, Piccolo gaining any power in a week his just crazy. I don't see why one could disregard Nail's statements when they were never contradicted.Maybe. Story wise I just don't think that is the case. I can't see Piccolo being stronger than the Goku that landed on Namek that beat the Ginyu force. Everytime characters do an old training Goku did they get stronger than when Goku did that training, but Goku has already done a knew training that makes him much stronger. So Piccolo was stronger than Goku post king Kai training, so over a power level of 8,000. but weaker than Goku's knew training which gave him a power level of 90,000.
Yeah, you can trust me on those translations. They are from Herms, a member well known by here and other forums for his accurate translations on the manga.Hmm that's not what the scan I'm looking at says, but I'll take your word that this is the correct translation. And the reason behind that would be because Cell is the only one with a power level they can sense, so this time they are actually feeling a ki bigger than Frieza.
Yeah, Vegeta's gains were the biggest. I think having weaker partners kind of slowed down his training.Pre rosat the only saiyan I think that got a lot stronger was Vegeta. Trunks only had a few months to get stronger and Goku was far beyond Vegeta but Vegeta caught up. Then post ROSAT saiyans are completely out of Frieza's league. Pre Rosat saiyans were also out of his league, but he was still strong enough to fight back. Against post rosat he wouldn't even be able to budge them.
I don't think Trunks having less time retarded his gains, though. After Gohan's death, Trunks as a SSJ was able to go from below Base Gohan to slightly above SSJ Gohan training three years alone. That's a huge increase, if you ask me.
Of course nobody thought it was crazy Piccolo lost. I mean, the three Saiyans are quite a deal above him. I think Vegeta could have tooled Piccolo the same way #18 him. Perhaps even Trunks wouldn't have a lot of trouble against Piccolo.Ya but the characters acted like that meant it was impressive that he and Vegeta who was stronger than him lost. Nobody thought it was crazy that Piccolo lost. They were like "if even the guy who can beat Frieza can't win, how can we?" but that doesn't make sense if Piccolo was also stronger than Frieza and even the Trunks that beat Frieza. If Piccolo was stronger than Frieza at that point it would of made more sense to mention if Trunks and Piccolo, who are both stronger than Frieza can't win, how can we.
I don't see why Trunks would lie to them tbh. Seems a bit confusing for Mr Toriyama to put the statement there but expect the reader to think Trunks was a lier, mainly because Trunks never said he was bluffing then.I think that is more of Trunks was trying to hype up the androids to let them know how much of a threat they were. When he came back the second time he didn't have to scare them into training. But I agree Frieza has no chance at all against ssj Vegeta, but I don't think Frieza could just grab and rip the arms off of Frieza like he did to 20 either, but that might be because Frieza is held together a little better. I think against ssj Vegeta it would go like Vegeta vs Dadoria or Vegeta vs first form Zarbon.