dragonball0900 wrote:Frost became tired, but really, in his tired version he shouldn't be that much below his normal self
Again, this is not what's shown in the show, that's
your opinion. We do not suggest what's right and what's not based on our tastes. The show clearly indicated that Frost lost almost all his power, so we don't go and suggest something else which is non existent In the show itself.
dragonball0900 wrote:In the manga we have Piccolo fighting equally against this Frost, and in the anime he was able to block most of his attacks. I don't really see how tired Frost can be weaker than Third Form Frost
The Manga completely differs from the Anime, so comparing them together is pointless. As I said, Piccolo blocking Frost is nothing major at all, and it's proven in the show to some extent. Using opinions, theories, and assumptions isn't a way to judge and conclude something if it goes against what's given in the show.
dragonball0900 wrote:The Makankosappo is a technique that can amplify the ki it's way way stronger than his normal self.
That's the point. The only thing which allowed Piccolo to be that powerful and change Goku's mind in the Universe 6 Arc was the Makankosappo, which is the only factor that made him this strong.
dragonball0900 wrote:Piccolo is not God Tier. In the U6, Goku's SSJ form should be at least like 3 or 4 times above his Buu arc self based on how he trained with Whis and in the ROSAT with Vegeta. And Piccolo should be way below that. That's not even close to a High tier Buu saga level.
Ssj Goku is not 4x-5x his Buu Saga counterpart, I don't even know where you pulled out these numbers. Disregarding this, Goku's base in the Universe 6 Arc tournament is Stronger Than SsjG from BoG, so no you're absolutely wrong. You're going under the assumption that Goku didn't get stronger than his Buu Saga self which was debunked over the course of the Episodes. Based on how he trained with Whis, they're above SsjG BoG by far.
dragonball0900 wrote:About Final Form Frieza being above SSJ tier, I'm not assuming at all. It is clearly shown in the TOP:
- He was defeating Napapa easily, someone who Basil had a hard time, and Basil was SSJ tier at best. SSJ Caulifla also had a bit of trouble before eliminating him, in comparison to what Final Form Frieza did.
Ssj Caulifla is a completely different case here. Basil isn't Ssj tier at best, I don't even know how you even say that. First Thing, Basil's power is inconsistent between The Tournament of Power and Zen Exhibition Match. At first, Basil was shown to he struggling against Good Buu, but then he's shown to struggle with Napapa, who was also struggling with Ssj Caulifla, who can be argued to be a God Tier Character. Yes, this can also be scaled from Cabba, and when she fought Goku. When Caulifla and Kale fused with the Potara, their base was superior to SsjG Goku who is already stronger than SsjG BoG in base, proven many times. If Caulifla and Kale are weaker than Buu Saga tiers in base form, then their fusion would be weaker than Vegito from the Buu saga, who is fodder to SsjG Goku from BoG, rendering your point utterly invalid. Also, Caulfila got stronger throughout the Tournament, so Final Form Frieza might be stronger than her, but that isn't "Ssj Tier" as that would include Goku and Vegeta which isn't right at all.
So what you just mentioned only renders Basil's strength inconsistent, as he's been show to be capable of fighting a character who resisted Caulifla. In other words, either It's inconsistent, or Basil managed to get stronger. Either Way, what you mentioned doesn't prove anything major.
dragonball0900 wrote: - Toppo, while being way suppressed, was fighting equally to Magetta (who is above SSJ Vegeta), but with that level he was also put into a bit of trouble by Murichim, indicating Murichim is equal or above Magetta, yet Final Form Frieza defeated him easily.
That's an assumption. We don't know whether Toppo was suppressing himself the same thing when he fought Magetta, both are completely different cases. Similar to How Vegeta and Goku have been suppressing their powers differently and varying rates, same thing could go there. So this argument is an assumption. Toppo might have fought harder against one of them, but you're speculating that fought both of them the same Thing, rendering this point invalid as well.
dragonball0900 wrote:- Katopesla was nothing in comparison to Frieza, his speed didn't amuse him, yet Katopesla was strong enough to put SSJ Vegeta into a good fight.
All of what Frieza said was to leave him be. Frieza takes anyone as a play thing, which he showed that in the tournament, but he didn't consider Katopesla, despite him being "weak" as you're saying. For the first part, that scene was taken as a comedic sense, where Frieza just ignores him overall. However, if you want to take this seriously, let me point out your flaws here
Katopesla wasn't in the same mode as when he fought Vegeta, and Base Vegeta handled something above that. Katopesla transforms yet again and Ssj Vegeta manhandles Katopesla. The Katopesla who was infornt of Frieza is nowhere near the one who fought Vegeta, so either way that renders your argument completely wrong, because Frieza ignored a much weaker Katopesla.
dragonball0900 wrote:- Final Form Frieza was intending to attack SSJ2 Caulifla in his Final Form with a blast until Goku interrupted him. That shows that Final Form Frieza should be above SSJ2 Caulifla.
Base Goku was ready to take on suppressed Toppo who was equal to Magetta, so I suppose that debunks Magetta being above Ssj Vegeta? Frieza transformed into his golden from the instant Cabba attacked him, so this could very well happen here. Anyways, this only suggests that Goku's base > Caulifla and Kale, and that he was holding back against them. Nothing more, nothing less. You're just interpreting things without taking into account the other multiple interpretations which could easily go against your argument.
dragonball0900 wrote:Frost is not above Frieza from ROF as I mentioned before. Final Form Frieza is god tier, based on his fight with a Goku that is stronger than SSJ God Goku. Piccolo did got strong for the Universe 6 arc, but there's no reason to think that he jumped high into above fighters like Buuhan or something like that.
Here, yet Again, you are just assuming he shouldn't be that strong because your opinion says he shouldn't. That honestly isn't even worth debating over. Piccolo again has been shown to potentially be that strong. It's been shown to us, that's all we need. I don't really remember you saying how he's weaker, but no he's not.
dragonball0900 wrote:The reason why this is even debated is because of Goku's fight with Frieza in ROF, at that point they were trying to tell us that it was a base form made of god ki, it was said in the story.
No, the story didn't "say" that Goku's base has God Ki. Nowhere has it been stated they have God Ki in base. Each and every character could sense Base Goku and his Regular transformations, except SsjG and SsjB, so it's utter speculation to even say that He has God Ki in base. They were just trying to tell is that Goku surpassed His Power from BoG In base form.
dragonball0900 wrote:Yet later on the normal SSJ transformations returned
Super Saiyan forms returning isn't proof of anything. Goku just absorbed the power of SsjG, but he still has the Ssj Forms, but he doesn't have God Ki in base or Super Saiyan forms. This points nothing
dragonball0900 wrote:There's no reason to think that characters like Piccolo, Frost, Cabba, etc are god tier when in fact they are not.
What do you mean "in fact they are not"? They became God Tier and it absolutely makes sense, considering we already know that Base Goku is far beyond SsjG BoG. Thinking that he isn't is utterly ridiculous. You're basically assuming things, and your argument is this: "I
think Character A is this strong", but no evidence, let alone a proof, is there to suggest it's a "fact".
Same as #4
