The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[PFM18]

Well Krillin implied Gohan wasn't above Goku yet, so based off of current feats and statements I would say
suppressed Jiren>amplified CSSB Goku>CSSB Goku/Vegeta/Toppo>Kefla/Gohan>Golden Frieza (possibly suppressed)

Vados and Krillin's statements are blatantly contradictory but one of them is backed up by feats and intuitive logic and the other is speculation from a character that cannot sense God Ki and properly gauge Goku's power

It's just an inconsistency is all

[dragon boss z]

Vados and Krillin's statements are blatantly contradictory but one of them is backed up by feats and intuitive logic and the other is speculation from a character that cannot sense God Ki and properly gauge Goku's power
It's just an inconsistency is all

In the recent chapter Toppo powered up again and Vegeta said "still have that much power in reserve do you?", and later we see Vegeta has Toppo down meaning he matched him in power, and we also see Goku powering against Jiren.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Is it stated in Super that SSJG Goku > Z Super Vegetto. If that’s so then base Goku is now above Z Vegetto.
Also, MUI Goku > SSJB Vegetto???

[dragon boss z]

Is it stated in Super that SSJG Goku > Z Super Vegetto.

Not directly

If that’s so then base Goku is now above Z Vegetto.

base Goku is not above any version of SSG Goku, so no.

Also, MUI Goku > SSJB Vegetto???

If we go by the manga SSB Vegetto is Beerus level, and if UI Goku is above Jiren who is above GoD level, then he should be, but I'm not sure. UI Goku could probably dodge him until his time runs out.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Ribrianne's actual power couldn't even beat an exhausted base Goku in E118 (Zirloin got all of her power). Super Saiyan Vegeta was just toying with her and left the battle before going serious. Goku only got serious against her Super Ribrianne form. E119 also proves Piccolo is way out of 18's league thanks to Gamisaras and E90 proves he's stronger than base Goku since he beat SS2 Gohan in E88.

Yet at the Same time in Episode 118 Goku had to go SSJ Blue just to push Zirloin and the other U2 Warriors away for a moment and that was before he gained Ribrianne's powers. Also a Weaken Goku is said for one min then he just can go Blue again, it was hard to determine anything since he and others seem to Magically gain back their stamina in like seconds per each episode, the writing was just chaos all around in power levels and stamina levels in this. Honestly the ToP arc was just a Cluster-Fire of Bad Power Scaling Writing and Constancy that as it went along writers never really seem to care anymore about being consistent with any character outside of Goku, Kefla, Vegeta, Toppo and Jiren to care about comparing power-scaling to each of those characters.

Episodes 102-103 seem to take more time in caring about how fights looked and giving wording to how characters felt about how strong their opponents where while showing it decently well. Even Vegeta gave Word to Ribrianne that she was more impressive then he thought her transformation would be. Their is not word about him playing around and he seemed little in doing that at that moment in the show. Also Android 17 was impressed by her and enraged Ribrianne broke his shield in 1 blow.

The only really up and down explanation given to Ribrianne's power levels for bring so up and down, in story-wise, was in the Manga that I think would work in the Anime as well, that her strength was depending on Ribrianne's confidence levels in herself and belief in Love that in-turn determined her power levels, but really that is the only part that would make sense in how Cluster-Fired the power scaling got with most of the Arc at theme points.

Seem to much about moving the story along and rule of cool then most else of being constant.

[PFM18]

Is it stated in Super that SSJG Goku > Z Super Vegetto. If that’s so then base Goku is now above Z Vegetto.
Also, MUI Goku > SSJB Vegetto???

I don't understand this logic. Why would that make base Goku above Vegetto?

[ZombieVito]

How the hell can Piccolo not defeat Boo when base Gohan was already on par with Lavender? The Trio brothers aren't dimensions apart from each other so Piccolo decimates Boo since he's 100 times stronger than that Gohan.

ssj Gohan tied with lavender. Buu outright beat an amped Basil. Yes the trio are about the same, but amped Basil would be far stronger than regular Lavender.

I think you don't realize that Gohan is much stronger than his Boo arc self.

When he got his mystic form back with Piccolo he reached where he was in the Buu saga. His training after that sent him beyond his buu saga self.

No. Base Gohan was on par with him. Thanks to the poison his Super Saiyan was needed to keep up later in the fight.

Piccolo's wording can be interpreted differently since Ultimate is a form.

Ribrianne's actual power couldn't even beat an exhausted base Goku in E118 (Zirloin got all of her power). Super Saiyan Vegeta was just toying with her and left the battle before going serious. Goku only got serious against her Super Ribrianne form. E119 also proves Piccolo is way out of 18's league thanks to Gamisaras and E90 proves he's stronger than base Goku since he beat SS2 Gohan in E88.

Yet at the Same time in Episode 118 Goku had to go SSJ Blue just to push Zirloin and the other U2 Warriors away for a moment and that was before he gained Ribrianne's powers. Also a Weaken Goku is said for one min then he just can go Blue again, it was hard to determine anything since he and others seem to Magically gain back their stamina in like seconds per each episode, the writing was just chaos all around in power levels and stamina levels in this. Honestly the ToP arc was just a Cluster-Fire of Bad Power Scaling Writing and Constancy that as it went along writers never really seem to care anymore about being consistent with any character outside of Goku, Kefla, Vegeta, Toppo and Jiren to care about comparing power-scaling to each of those characters.

Episodes 102-103 seem to take more time in caring about how fights looked and giving wording to how characters felt about how strong their opponents where while showing it decently well. Even Vegeta gave Word to Ribrianne that she was more impressive then he thought her transformation would be. Their is not word about him playing around and he seemed little in doing that at that moment in the show. Also Android 17 was impressed by her and enraged Ribrianne broke his shield in 1 blow.

The only really up and down explanation given to Ribrianne's power levels for bring so up and down, in story-wise, was in the Manga that I think would work in the Anime as well, that her strength was depending on Ribrianne's confidence levels in herself and belief in Love that in-turn determined her power levels, but really that is the only part that would make sense in how Cluster-Fired the power scaling got with most of the Arc at theme points.

Seem to much about moving the story along and rule of cool then most else of being constant.

Well it was 3 vs 1 and he only transformed for an instance.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the power scaling in the ToP. Ribrianne might be a problem but it's fixed by having Vegeta and 17 just be holding back, nothing contradicts this. E118 is very clear were Ribrianne stands in comparison to Goku.

[PFM18]

Piccolo's wording can be interpreted differently since Ultimate is a form

YES, this is true. I try to explain this to people and It gets called a "bold faced lie" calling it a form. Either Gohan went from his Z power to his SSB power in a day, and Piccolo was referring to the level of power, or Gohan had been making gains from since RoF and Piccolo had been referring to the form itself and not the level of power. In the latter case, Piccolo is extremely strong compared to the former case

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Is it stated in Super that SSJG Goku > Z Super Vegetto. If that’s so then base Goku is now above Z Vegetto.
Also, MUI Goku > SSJB Vegetto???

I don't understand this logic. Why would that make base Goku above Vegetto?

Base Goku practically absorbed the power of SSJG when it wore off. Which is why I say that Base Goku > Z Vegetto

[Desassina]

Goku did not absorb the power of SSJG. It was burning through SSJ like the Genki-dama was still present in Ultra Instincts Omen. His base is still in a mortal realm, but he can access greater power, like when he trained his base against Whis with SSJG's projection. Vegeta still hadn't accomplished that form, but he could turn into SSJB at a cost, because his base wasn't up there with SSJG. That's why he trained for Goku Black and used it to power up the Blue one.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Goku did not absorb the power of SSJG. It was burning through SSJ like the Genki-dama was still present in Ultra Instincts Omen. His base is still in a mortal realm, but he can access greater power, like when he trained his base against Whis with SSJG's projection. Vegeta still hadn't accomplished that form, but he could turn into SSJB at a cost, because his base wasn't up there with SSJG. That's why he trained for Goku Black and used it to power up the Blue one.

Where would you put his power after SSJG wore off. The same base level as before?

[Desassina]

Much stronger from having fought Beerus. The important thing to keep is that they are usually relaxed whenever they don't fight. It's how far their power can be taken in the same form that matters. That's why I can't be asked where or in which power level do they stand in base.

[Puaru]

"Super Saiyan Rage" is barely even an actual thing, by which I mean that official material are vauge as to if it is even a new form or if it's just Trunks having a giant rage boost. And if it's the latter, then there is no reason why Gohan shouldn't be able to unlock that kind of power just like Trunks did. So Gohan being SSB level during the ToP is no more bullshit than Trunks being SSB level during the Zamasu arc.

I don't get why people are cool with Freeza, 17 and Trunks reached god-level Power for bullshit reasons (like training for four months or getting angry) but when someone says that Gohan is SSB level people are like "That's impossible! It wouldn't make sense!".

If any character in DBZ SHOULD be able to reach god-level Power without actual god-ki then it should be Gohan because he has the most potential as shown and stated in DBZ over and over.

[ZombieVito]

YES, this is true. I try to explain this to people and It gets called a "bold faced lie" calling it a form. Either Gohan went from his Z power to his SSB power in a day, and Piccolo was referring to the level of power, or Gohan had been making gains from since RoF and Piccolo had been referring to the form itself and not the level of power. In the latter case, Piccolo is extremely strong compared to the former case

I mean, if Gohan in E88 was as strong as his Boo arc self then Lavender would be weaker than Namek Freeza...

Hop and the other U9 fighters would be even weaker than that yet they gave Goku and Vegeta some trouble. It doesn't make sense really.

In any case Gohan was already as strong as Piccolo in base with just a few months of training as confirmed in E30.

[RecolorSaiyan]

1. SS Rage Trunks vs A17?
2. Manga U Gohan vs Manga Toppo?
3. BoG MOVIE Beerus vs SSJ4 Gogeta (shadow dragon arc)?
4. Base Vegito (buu arc) vs enraged ssj2 vegeta (BoG)?

[ricky84]

1. SS Rage Trunks vs A17?
2. Manga U Gohan vs Manga Toppo?
3. BoG MOVIE Beerus vs SSJ4 Gogeta (shadow dragon arc)?
4. Base Vegito (buu arc) vs enraged ssj2 vegeta (BoG)?

1. A17 wins (if Trunks doesn't have spirit sword)
2. We have yet to see Toppo go all out in the manga, so idk
3. Beerus one shots
4. Base Vegito mid-difficulty.

[Bullza]

Base Cabba vs. Frost Final Form

As of the Universe 6 Saga.

[sunsetshimmer]

1. SS Rage Trunks vs A17?
2. Manga U Gohan vs Manga Toppo?
3. BoG MOVIE Beerus vs SSJ4 Gogeta (shadow dragon arc)?
4. Base Vegito (buu arc) vs enraged ssj2 vegeta (BoG)?

1. Trunks i guess
2. Hard to tell yet but probably Toppo easily wins
3. Gogeta SSJ4 one shots
4. Base Vegito

[dragon boss z]

No. Base Gohan was on par with him. Thanks to the poison his Super Saiyan was needed to keep up later in the fight.

Gohan had trouble in base even before he got hit by the poison, and Lavender was able to keep up with ssj, even if he was had hindered sight. Gohan going ssj really only made him seem a few times stronger.
Base Gohan was Basil/Lavender tier, ssj Gohan and Buu were above. That's all we know.

Piccolo's wording can be interpreted differently since Ultimate is a form.

True, but during the FT arc Trunks said he didn't sense the same power Gohan had during the Cell games, and cell games Gohan was weaker than Buu saga Goku/Vegeta, so I doubt Gohan was much stronger thanBuu saga Goku/Vegeta before his Piccolo training. The RoF and U6 arc both treated Piccolo as lower than Buu, so unless I see solid conformation he is above Buu, I doubt he is. Plus Buu was brought to the exhibition match, and not Piccolo, who was most likely free.

Base Cabba vs. Frost Final Form
As of the Universe 6 Saga.

Vados says Frost is U6's strongest warrior in the manga, and he fought ssj Goku (though probably suppressed). Frost should definitely win.

1. SS Rage Trunks vs A17?
2. Manga U Gohan vs Manga Toppo?
3. BoG MOVIE Beerus vs SSJ4 Gogeta (shadow dragon arc)?
4. Base Vegito (buu arc) vs enraged ssj2 vegeta (BoG)?

1. 17 is at least about as strong but has infinite energy, he should win.
2. Toppo since it was stated Goku>Gohan, and Vegeta and Toppo are even with Goku.
3. Beerus just due tot he fact he is Beerus
4. Vegito outlasts him imo

[PFM18]

Base Cabba vs. Frost Final Form

As of the Universe 6 Saga.

Definitely Frost. Cabba didnt surpass Frost until he went SSJ