The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:25 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:03 pm
Z SS3 Vegito (no drain from SS3 or time limit for the fusion) vs GT SS4 Goku

M8 SS4 Broly vs Z Super Vegito

GT Newborn Baby(the one defeated by Pan, Trunks and Goku) vs Saiyan arc Vegeta
-SSJ4 Goku would beat him as SSJ3 is only x8 SSJ and we know that Goku SSJ4 was on par with G. Oozaru Baby who was at least 10 times stronger than Super Baby 1 who was already stronger than SSJ Vegito.
-no idea on that
-Lol, this form of Baby was already stated by Goku to have awesome ki and even impressed him when he survived kamehameha attack. Baby would demolish Vegeta in seconds.
Rarity is the best pony
Pan-chan is the best saiya-jin

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:58 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:Z SS3 Vegito (no drain from SS3 or time limit for the fusion) vs GT SS4 Goku
Goku's likely somewhat stronger. When Baby-Vegeta evolved further, Goku states it's the biggest chi he has ever felt, implying such is > Vegetto SSJ. While he obviously didn't sense Vegetto SSJ3, Baby turning into an Oozaru couldn't easily outclass Goku SSJ4 iirc, and if we assume the Oozaru's multiplier has remained consistent, it bests the 8x power up from SSJ to SSJ3 that Vegetto would receive.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Manga Hit (Champa arc) vs manga Golden Freeza (ROF arc)
We haven't seen Golden Freeza fighting in the Rebirth of F chapters, but assuming it went down similarly to the movie, in which he outclassed Blue Goku outside of stamina, he'd get this as the Blue state was enough to break out from Hit's time skip. Granted that Goku and Vegeta trained in the Room befor the U6 Tournament, but with the lack of a comment on how much they have progressed and Vegeta (iirc) stating they were about his limits so the gains wouldn't be that high, I assume it wouldn't make that much of a difference in regards to the result of this battle.
Manga Hit (ToP) vs manga Golden Freeza (ToP)
It depends on how you take Freeza and Goku's off screen battle in hell. Since Goku wanted to convince Freeza, I think he used his strongest state (the PSSJB) and both seemed equally injured. Hit seemed to display a similar performance to PSSJB Goku when attacking Jiren and neither were outlasting the other when they attacked in conjuction, so I'd say Hit also belongs to the same tier. In a fight, I think Hit would emerge victorious with his time lap, as that forced Jiren to show more of his powers.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8779
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:04 pm

ahill1 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:58 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:Manga Hit (Champa arc) vs manga Golden Freeza (ROF arc)
We haven't seen Golden Freeza fighting in the Rebirth of F chapters, but assuming it went down similarly to the movie, in which he outclassed Blue Goku outside of stamina, he'd get this as the Blue state was enough to break out from Hit's time skip. Granted that Goku and Vegeta trained in the Room befor the U6 Tournament, but with the lack of a comment on how much they have progressed and Vegeta (iirc) stating they were about his limits so the gains wouldn't be that high, I assume it wouldn't make that much of a difference in regards to the result of this battle.
Goku's full power Blue state could break Hit's time skip; that is, the brief pulse of power that eventually gets turned into continuous output in the Zamasu arc. This should be higher than what he used continuously against Freeza. How Hit would stack up to Blue's regular imperfect output isn't revealed, though he shouldn't be far off from its peak power ("CSSB") either considering that Goku kicked him in the chest without injuring him.

I think it's an interesting match because they're roughly around the same level of power (with Freeza probably being stronger), neither are experienced hand to hand combatants, and both have pretty debilitating stamina problems (Freeza is obvious, but Hit also noted that his body couldn't sustain his full power for than a minute), but Hit also brings his time-skip to the table. Is Freeza far enough above Hit to break through his time skip, that should be the main question. If he is, then he can probably beat Hit, as Hit's just as stamina-deficient as he is. But then, Hit also has those kill techniques we never saw.
It depends on how you take Freeza and Goku's off screen battle in hell. Since Goku wanted to convince Freeza, I think he used his strongest state (the PSSJB) and both seemed equally injured. Hit seemed to display a similar performance to PSSJB Goku when attacking Jiren and neither were outlasting the other when they attacked in conjuction, so I'd say Hit also belongs to the same tier. In a fight, I think Hit would emerge victorious with his time lap, as that forced Jiren to show more of his powers.
I think Hit and Freeza should both be around CSSB level at this point, as Hit wasn't that far off to begin with and Goku was marveling at Hit's new strength. Though, as Hit notes, he doesn't have the stamina problem anymore, while Freeza still does, just to a lesser extent than before (he mentions having to turn off Golden to recover energy after Kale beats him up).

I do agree that Hit's time manipulation would hand him an easy win, as Jiren needed to uncork more power to brute-force through it despite starting at a level that could casually tool Hit and Goku at the same time; this basically means Freeza is frozen and Hit has free rein to punch him in the face until he falls over.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1594
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:03 pm
Z SS3 Vegito (no drain from SS3 or time limit for the fusion) vs GT SS4 Goku

M8 SS4 Broly vs Z Super Vegito

GT Newborn Baby(the one defeated by Pan, Trunks and Goku) vs Saiyan arc Vegeta
- Ssj4 Goku from any saga stomps.

- Vegito easy.

- I don't know... :lol:

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:33 pm
Manga Hit (Champa arc) vs manga Golden Freeza (ROF arc)

Manga Hit (ToP) vs manga Golden Freeza (ToP)
- There's no Manga Golden Freeza from the ROF arc as Toyo stopped drawing chapters before Freeza turned Golden, so I suppose his strength is the same as the movie and anime, so slightly above Ssj Blue Goku and Vegeta. Manga Hit was nowhere near that strong, and Time-Skip in the manga doesn't work if your enemy's stronger. So, Freeza stomps.

- Hit takes this fight instead. His ultimate technique, Time-Lag, would allow him to easily beat Freeza in my opinion.

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:42 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Goku's full power Blue state could break Hit's time skip; that is, the brief pulse of power that eventually gets turned into continuous output in the Zamasu arc. This should be higher than what he used continuously against Freeza. How Hit would stack up to Blue's regular imperfect output isn't revealed, though he shouldn't be far off from its peak power ("CSSB") either considering that Goku kicked him in the chest without injuring him.
I disagree. Even if I were down the route that Blue has a FP that con only be accessed when Goku keeps its aura inside his body, I don't think he managed to use that power until actually improving the state against Merged Zamasu. Before that, I think he was accessing Blue's usual FP... at most Vegeta's level when overwhelming Black.
I do agree that Hit's time manipulation would hand him an easy win, as Jiren needed to uncork more power to brute-force through it despite starting at a level that could casually tool Hit and Goku at the same time; this basically means Freeza is frozen and Hit has free rein to punch him in the face until he falls over.
Yes, hence why I said it's an easy win with the Time Lap, considering the Jiren that was kicking their asses had to up his power to break out of that.

User avatar
Grand Marshal 1
Regular
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:04 am

ahill1 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:42 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:Goku's full power Blue state could break Hit's time skip; that is, the brief pulse of power that eventually gets turned into continuous output in the Zamasu arc. This should be higher than what he used continuously against Freeza. How Hit would stack up to Blue's regular imperfect output isn't revealed, though he shouldn't be far off from its peak power ("CSSB") either considering that Goku kicked him in the chest without injuring him.
I disagree. Even if I were down the route that Blue has a FP that con only be accessed when Goku keeps its aura inside his body, I don't think he managed to use that power until actually improving the state against Merged Zamasu. Before that, I think he was accessing Blue's usual FP... at most Vegeta's level when overwhelming Black.
Well, SSJB in the Manga works somewhat differently and we all know it. For me it goes like this:
  • Standart Super Saiyan Blue: the regular version of the form used most of the time by our heroes. Despite having a certain multiplier over Ssjg, it's full power can only be accessed early on during a fight, or by unleashing it's power momentarily and then using another form (God-to-Blue Technique). Can use anything from 10% to 50% of it's actual power.
  • Full Potential Super Saiyan Blue: the same form as before but with a great advantage. It uses 100% of the form's power, meaning that it is using all of the power bestowed to the form from it's multiplier on top of SSJG. Can only be used via the God-to-Blue technique or by accessing it early on during a fight.
  • Perfected Super Saiyan Blue: a form which uses 100% of Blue's power like the Full Potential variant. However, unlike that form it can be used for long periods of time with a Great disadvantage of requiring great concentration and causing great exhaustion. It always multiplies Standart Blue's power accordingly to the percentage of power that it uses (10%×10 or 50%×2).
Then there are some power-ups to the Perfected variant that are quite unique on their own, but are still in the same branch of forms. If I were to compare the power of Perfected Blue with the anime, it would be a Blue KK level form.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

User avatar
Koitsukai
Regular
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 pm

GT episode 63
UI kid Goku vs Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:03 pm

What do you think about Vegeta swallowing a Senzu during his fight against Black and still being powerless against him?
That leads me to believe Vegeta's training in the RoSaT and Goku's mastery of the state also bestowed a power boost... Unless Vegeta lost most of his powers in the time spam he flew at Black?

I know the statements during Goku's fight against Black emphasizes the usage of the Blue state at its 100%, but still.

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 pm
GT episode 63
UI kid Goku vs Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta
Goku.
By adapting my cui multiplier in dbgt standards, an hypotetical mui Goku would be more that 2 times stronger than ssj4 gogeta at full power
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Koitsukai
Regular
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:06 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 pm
GT episode 63
UI kid Goku vs Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta
Goku.
By adapting my cui multiplier in dbgt standards, an hypotetical mui Goku would be more that 2 times stronger than ssj4 gogeta at full power
What's your UI multiplier and what's your SS4 multiplier? how much stronger than SS3?

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:08 pm

I don't think the U.I works as a multiplier. It's more so an ultimate technique that leaves the warrior in a position to swiftly dodge and attack without needing the usage of the body's nervous system, hightening the reaction speed to attacks. For instance, Kame-Sen'nin could easily dispose of Kasheral while his BP was read as below his. It's a technique that transcends simple BP, cold hard numbers.

User avatar
Kokonoe
Regular
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:26 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kokonoe » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:56 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 pm
GT episode 63
UI kid Goku vs Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta
Gogeta alone would stomp. Durability feats are way higher and casual destruction feat is way higher.

Omega Shenron it can go either way if UI is on a time limit. People need to remember that it was a team effort that took out Jiren and you're weakening Goku a tad by making him a kid.
ahill1 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:08 pm
I don't think the U.I works as a multiplier. It's more so an ultimate technique that leaves the warrior in a position to swiftly dodge and attack without needing the usage of the body's nervous system, hightening the reaction speed to attacks. For instance, Kame-Sen'nin could easily dispose of Kasheral while his BP was read as below his. It's a technique that transcends simple BP, cold hard numbers.
Agreed.

User avatar
Dragon Ball Gus
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: Planet Sadla

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:20 am

New Hypothetical Questions (been a while)
1) How strong would Super Saiyan God Gohan be?

2) How strong would a hypothetical Gohan Black be?

3) How strong would a hypothetical Vegetto Black be?

4) How strong would Baby be if he were to take over Goku Black's body?

5) How strong would a fusion of Goku and Xeno Goku be?
Caulifla best girl! :)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:50 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:06 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 pm
GT episode 63
UI kid Goku vs Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta
Goku.
By adapting my cui multiplier in dbgt standards, an hypotetical mui Goku would be more that 2 times stronger than ssj4 gogeta at full power
What's your UI multiplier and what's your SS4 multiplier? how much stronger than SS3?
In gt, ssj4 is x100 ssj3 basing on gt perfect files.
In dbs i have mui = x1000 ssb, adapting to gt it would be x40 ssj4fp, that because ssj in gt is x2 and bot x50 so mui would become x40 in gt
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Koitsukai
Regular
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:56 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:20 am
New Hypothetical Questions (been a while)
1) How strong would Super Saiyan God Gohan be?

2) How strong would a hypothetical Gohan Black be?

3) How strong would a hypothetical Vegetto Black be?

4) How strong would Baby be if he were to take over Goku Black's body?

5) How strong would a fusion of Goku and Xeno Goku be?

1) Right now he is between SSGod and SSBlue, so becoming SSGod would at least put him above SS Kefla.

2) Early DBS Gohan Black would be a really bad choice for Zamasu, regular SS transformations would be enough to deal with him, and if he somehow regains his Z powers, then SSGod.

3) Somewhat stronger than the original.

4) He would kill SS4 Goku easily, have no problem with Super 17, and take down the shadow dragons without even letting Omega absorbe the DBs.

5) Don't know how strong he is. But to surpass Vegito/Gogeta he would need to have god ki, SSBlue at his greatest capacity, and be stronger than Vegeta.

---


a) Namek Vegito, fused the moment Goku landed and cured Vegeta (no SS but KKx20) vs Freeza. How would that go?

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5572
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Fat Buu (Buu saga, right after he was first released) vs. Maji=Kayo. No candy beam allowed.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:46 am

Future Trunks (when he killed future Cell) vs Present kid Trunks (Boo arc, pre RoSaT)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:05 am

ahill1 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:46 am
Future Trunks (when he killed future Cell) vs Present kid Trunks (Boo arc, pre RoSaT)
Kid trunks
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
p-hyvo
Regular
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:06 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:13 pm
Fat Buu (Buu saga, right after he was first released) vs. Maji=Kayo. No candy beam allowed.
Majikayo
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1594
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:13 pm
Fat Buu (Buu saga, right after he was first released) vs. Maji=Kayo. No candy beam allowed.
Stalemate. Maji-Kayo is undoubtedly stronger but I don't know if he has what it takes to completely elimate Buu.

Post Reply