The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Note that the characters that aren't from a specified Era are meant to represent their final appearance in terms of power.

• Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2 Quake of Fury) VS Goku Black (Base/Saiyan Beyond God)

• Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3) VS Freeza (3rd Form, Resurrection F)

• Future Trunks (Super Saiyan 2 Rage) VS Kale (Berserk Super Saiyan, early ToP)

• Toppo (Base/Aura of a God, Full Power) VS Goku Black (Enraged Super Saiyan Rose)

• Adult Super Gohan (Super Saiyan 2, post ToP) VS Adult GT Gohan (Super Saiyan)

• Freeza (True Golden Form) VS Broly (Wrathful/Ikari Stage II)

• Goku (Super Saiyan 3, BoG) VS Z Broly (Legendary Super Saiyan 3, Second Coming)

• Cumber (Super Saiyan) VS Merged Zamasu (Corrupted, Giant, end of FT Arc)

• Super 17 (Pumped up, Max Power, Androids 18,16 and Super 13 absorbed) VS Moro (Prime, Total Magic Power released)

• Adult GT Gotenks (Super Saiyan 4) VS Syn Shenron

Black beats him with small difficulty.
I don't think Freeza had his 2nd and 3rd forms anymore but regardless, he needs his final form to win IMO.
Not even SS2 Kale managed to beat SSG Goku. SSI Trunks finger flicks.
I actually have them equal. Toppo would need to turn into his GoD form once Black gets his Zenkai's or Scythe to win.
Super Gohan finger flicks. His base his already stronger than Ultimate Gohan from the Boo arc.
Freeza.
Goku.
Zamasu gets destroyed and turns Infinite, beating Cumber eventually.
Both suck so they self destruct.
Gotenks could be stronger but his skills suck so I give this to Syn.

[Koitsukai]

he got stomped by Rildo, did much worse than his father in base, almost dies

Yes he did worse than Goku, but was he stomped? I don't think so. He didn't look hurt at all and went straight to fight against Super 17. We didn't see most of his fight against Rilldo but it looked like he was losing because he lost his arm. I mean here is a comparison of Gohan after a lot of Rildo's punches including being blasted into a building and Gohan after one punch from Super 17:



He doesn't look "stomped" on the left pic honestly (it's even the same episode)

It was confirmed in DBS and in Z Kaioshin made it clear that SS wasn't the way and with Ultimate there will be no need to turn SS because all the power already would be out

But DBS wasn't a thing yet and in Z it wasn't said that turning into SSJ won't make him any stronger. It was just said it's wrong way of getting stronger. Even if you bring DBS, then in manga Kefla asked Gohan if he is going to turn SSJ and he said he doesn't want to rely on SSJ. Nothing about SSJ being pointless. Correct me if i'm wrong. And as i showed you, even early BoG used the "Ultimate SSJ" concept. For me, it looks like GT staff simply made a mistake here and assumed that Ultimate is a fixed boost, not a form which wasn't clear until DBS. The same thing could be said about Battle of Gods. Also:

SS doesn't stack ontop of ultimate

Well, as shown in Battle of Gods - it does. Gohan can still use SSJ as Ultimate. Of course in DBS they changed that and Gohan isn't Ultimate Gohan in this arc.

Been real busy, sorry. This isn't the thread for this, so I'll keep it short and end it here so we don't clog it up, ok?

I think you are reaching with Rildo and by analyzing every detail of Gohan after almost dying. He just got defeated, you don't like stomped? fine, still, he got beat down and should've died. Arm or no arm, his dad in base managed to not fall for that cheap trick until way long into the fight, Gohan also showed rustiness, like vs Dabura. Yes, he is stronger than in the previous arc, his base gets pretty much the same beating(from Rildo) his SS took from his father in base. But still his SS should stay within Buu arc tier, high Buu arc tier. That's why I think DBS post ToP SS2 Gohan wins.

Ultimate form doesn't work that way, he should've turned SS against Buutenks and win if that was actually possible. The Ultimate form is his full potential unlocked, able to get to it without climbing that SS ladder. And never happened on BoG either, Gohan didn't use SS to fight Beerus, you are referring to the ritual which to me is just coloring really, why not use it when attacking Beerus? why withhold a limit breaking transformation? why present it that way? having ultimate form doesn't mean he CAN'T turn SS, it just doesn't make him any stronger in a fight and strains the body. In the ritual he was just 50x stronger than base, against Beerus he was much stronger, I don't know why he didn't just go ultimate for the ritual (maybe Beerus beat him so hard he is still recovering? or Toriyama forgot as usual) but definitely doesn't mean he is stacking SS on top of ultimate.

[Berserker1921]

New Fights

1. Young Moro vs Ssj Broly?

2. Merus vs Dyspo? (The first one to tag each other, wins)

3. GoD Toppo vs Base Gogeta?

4. Grand Buu vs Hit?

5. Jiren (100%) vs SsjB Gogeta? (No kaioken, no ssjbe, no ultra instinct)

[ahill1]

I think the DB series doesn't respect limits as a cold hard restriction for the characters. Many are the times limits are brought up only for it to be broken or ignored later. For instance, Elder Kaioshin stated his power would allow Gohan to access all the power latent on him and surpass even that, going further than simply unlocking Gohan's limits. Yet in the ToP, it's mentioned by Piccolo Gohan got stronger than ever fighting all those fighters, to the point he could compete against someone stated to be unmatchable in the arena (until Jiren showed more of his powers, ofc).

Goku also stated that him and Gohan have pushed their bodies as far as they could go post training in the RoSaT, yet we know they were far from their full potential. So limits seem basically like a throwaway line in DB. I prefer to look at it more in terms of temporary walls... characters hit temporary walls that are overcame through a new method of training or simply with time.

[p-hyvo]

New Fights

1. Young Moro vs Ssj Broly?

2. Merus vs Dyspo? (The first one to tag each other, wins)

3. GoD Toppo vs Base Gogeta?

4. Grand Buu vs Hit?

5. Jiren (100%) vs SsjB Gogeta? (No kaioken, no ssjbe, no ultra instinct)

1 can't say
2 dyspo definitely
3 Gogeta imo
4 Grand buu
5 Gogeta stomps easier than with broly

[Koitsukai]

New Fights

1. Young Moro vs Ssj Broly?

2. Merus vs Dyspo? (The first one to tag each other, wins)

3. GoD Toppo vs Base Gogeta?

4. Grand Buu vs Hit?

5. Jiren (100%) vs SsjB Gogeta? (No kaioken, no ssjbe, no ultra instinct)

1) Moro takes it. SS Broly is a beast but has zero brains, Moro would eat up his energy easily.
2) Before reading Chapter 51, I would've said Dyspo, but now I'm not so sure about Merus.
3) GoD Toppo. Gogeta would need SS to be on that realm.
4) Hi. You need a massive power to overcome his technique and Grand Buu doesn't have it.
5) If is still dressed Jiren, then Gogeta.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Seeing how Moro is still replenishing his power, I think that even in his Prime state, he would probably have quite the difference in strength with each power up.

Elder Moro was surprised by Super Saiyan God, but upon absorbing energy and powering up, he forced Vegeta to Blue. Then, Pre-Prime Moro was above that level and when he powered up via absorption again, he overpowered our dudes.

As of now, in his Prime he has powered up once with Zoon's power. I want to see whether his appearance will change even more after a couple more absorptions.

For a gag, imagine him being at his strongest as an infant, getting younger and younger. XD

[Melee_Sovereign]

For a gag, imagine him being at his strongest as an infant, getting younger and younger. XD

The Curious Case of Moro Buttons.

[RandomGuy96]

New Fights

1. Young Moro vs Ssj Broly?

2. Merus vs Dyspo? (The first one to tag each other, wins)

3. GoD Toppo vs Base Gogeta?

4. Grand Buu vs Hit?

5. Jiren (100%) vs SsjB Gogeta? (No kaioken, no ssjbe, no ultra instinct)

1. Moro. Even if Broly is stronger, Broly's habit of toying with his enemies (see: Freeza) would see him drained long before he actually finished Moro off.
2. I firmly maintain that Merus is solely dependent on dodging. We haven't seen him display any notable offensive power. So Dyspo.
3. Anime, pass.
4. Grand Kaioshin Buu was steadily losing to a version of Moro that Vegeta said Blue would be more than enough to handle. Hit, by the time of the ToP, was implicitly stronger than Blue (Goku said "when did you get so strong, Hit!?" when he was already between SSG and SSB last they fought, and Goku was sweating at the thought of facing him). Hit should win, especially if he uses time skip as his first resort.
5. Anime, Jiren should win easily; he was stated to be the strongest ki Kaioshin or Vegeta had ever sensed long before he actually went full power, and both Kaioshin and Vegeta sensed full-power mutated Fused Zamasu (who was equal to SSB Vegetto). Heroes further suggests this by stating Jiren is far more powerful than any version of Cumber, who fought SSB Vegetto evenly. Manga, it's ambiguous. I'd say SSB Gogeta if only because Jiren and Broly both have "stronger than a God of Destruction" as their highest feat there, while SSB Gogeta has "far stronger than a being stronger than a God of Destruction." I don't think Broly and Jiren are supposed to be very far apart in power.

[ahill1]

Didn't Toriyama state Broly is the strongest enemy Goku and co. have faced?

[Berserker1921]

Didn't Toriyama state Broly is the strongest enemy Goku and co. have faced?

No, it was the promotion material. They always say that for every villain. But by feats, as of now, Jiren is above Broly and Gogeta blue’s PL.

[Berserker1921]

-New Fights-

U7 Villains/Antagonists fight in the ToP! How long do they last?

1. Moro
2. Broly (Current)
3. C. Vegeta
4. O. Shenron
5. Bebi Vegeta
6. SS17
7. Frieza
8. SP Cell
9. Buuhan
10. Janemba

[TobyS]

-New Fights-

U7 Villains/Antagonists fight in the ToP! How long do they last?

1. Moro
2. Broly (Current)
3. C. Vegeta
4. O. Shenron
5. Bebi Vegeta
6. SS17
7. Frieza
8. SP Cell
9. Buuhan
10. Janemba

Broly is Beerus tier alone now.
Moro can drain the shit out of a lot of people before they even figure who's doing it and power up his own people.
Bebi Vegeta may be able to jump and possess Jiren or at least Toppo or something.
Janembas teleportation makes him hard to ring out although he'd have to be stopped from killing people probably.
Buuhan can abosrb further people and spit them off the edge unconscious in the last few moments.

This team stomps. Unless Jiren or someone can speed blitz Moro base broly and probably baby... But he wouldn't know he has to do that. They'd might even win by numbers even if they couldn't beat Jiren. Using their hax.

[TobyS]

Didn't Toriyama state Broly is the strongest enemy Goku and co. have faced?

No, it was the promotion material. They always say that for every villain. But by feats, as of now, Jiren is above Broly and Gogeta blue’s PL.

GOKU did say he is (might be?) Stronger than Beerus. And Even if we assume Jiren is stronger than all the gods incl. Beerus it's not miles more, yet Bluegeta stomped Broly with ease, so it's fair to assume Bluegeta could take Jiren just with slightly less ease.

Alternately Jiren is bit stronger than all Gods, and Beerus is not one he is stronger then in which case it's easy.

UI > Bluegeta > Jiren>=<Broly

[sunsetshimmer]

-New Fights-

U7 Villains/Antagonists fight in the ToP! How long do they last?

1. Moro
2. Broly (Current)
3. C. Vegeta
4. O. Shenron
5. Bebi Vegeta
6. SS17
7. Frieza
8. SP Cell
9. Buuhan
10. Janemba

As a team they should win ToP without big difficulty as every character listed is above half of DBS U7 team (assuming we talk about DBS Frieza or even GT Frieza) with Broly and Omega being absolutely top tier with only Jiren and maybe god Toppo being a threat to them.

[Berserker1921]

Didn't Toriyama state Broly is the strongest enemy Goku and co. have faced?

No, it was the promotion material. They always say that for every villain. But by feats, as of now, Jiren is above Broly and Gogeta blue’s PL.

GOKU did say he is (might be?) Stronger than Beerus. And Even if we assume Jiren is stronger than all the gods incl. Beerus it's not miles more, yet Bluegeta stomped Broly with ease, so it's fair to assume Bluegeta could take Jiren just with slightly less ease.

Alternately Jiren is bit stronger than all Gods, and Beerus is not one he is stronger then in which case it's easy.

UI > Bluegeta > Jiren>=<Broly

Goku isn’t a reliable person. He has never seen Beerus at his max. If it was Whis who claimed this, then I would put more stock into what he said. Whis did train Beerus, Goku and Vegeta. So until said otherwise, I give it to Jiren. Since he was the only person to push Goku and Vegeta to reach new heights of power. If Broly was that dangerous, Goku would have used ultra instinct against him. Until dbs returns and redoes this movie and fixing the scaling. Jiren is stronger than Broly and Gogeta Blue. By a decent estimate.

I personally see it like this

MUI Goku>=<LB Jiren>Jiren 100%>=<Gogeta Blue>FP Broly

[Zamasu55]

New Fights

1. Young Moro vs Ssj Broly?

2. Merus vs Dyspo? (The first one to tag each other, wins)

3. GoD Toppo vs Base Gogeta?

4. Grand Buu vs Hit?

5. Jiren (100%) vs SsjB Gogeta? (No kaioken, no ssjbe, no ultra instinct)

- Moro stomps.
- Manga Dyspo surely loses. Anime Dyspo... don't know.
- Toppo.
- Grand Buu.
- SsjB Gogeta.

-New Fights-

U7 Villains/Antagonists fight in the ToP! How long do they last?

1. Moro
2. Broly (Current)
3. C. Vegeta
7. Frieza
8. SP Cell
9. Buuhan
10. Janemba

I prefer not to speak about GT characters honestly...
- Cell's the weakest of them all. He lasts a bit, then I think he'd get defeated pretty easily by somebody like Berserker Kale.
- Janemba is the second weakest. He has interesting powers though, but he's a brainless demon just like Aniraza was, I reckon he'd kill somebody and get disqualified for it.
- Buuhan's next. He too has interesting powers and can regenerate, but in this Tournament it doesn't mean much. Someone like Dyspo would throw him off the ring very easily.
- Copy Vegeta is as strong as U6 vs U7 arc SsjB Vegeta. Certainly strong, but he'd be outclassed by the middle of the Tournament.
- Freeza... I don't know, I guess it'd be like in the actual ToP, but there would be no 17 to save his ass against Hakaishin Toppo.
- Broly would certainly be a finalist.
- Moro too. Though he'd get his ass handed to him if he challenges Jiren early.

[Koitsukai]

-New Fights-

U7 Villains/Antagonists fight in the ToP! How long do they last?

1. Moro
2. Broly (Current)
3. C. Vegeta
4. O. Shenron
5. Bebi Vegeta
6. SS17
7. Frieza
8. SP Cell
9. Buuhan
10. Janemba

1. I think the Pride Troopers might take Moro with their teamwork, Dyspo's speed should take him by surprise while the rest sacrifice themselves, and Toppo's power could seal the deal, or Jiren like vs Kale and Majikayo. As long as they know who they are facing.
2. I'm not sure if SS Broly could take Hakaishin Toppo. If he could, then Jiren would ring him out, in the event that FPSS Broly prevents that from happening, then LB Jiren would dispose of him.
3. I don't who C. Vegeta is.
4. Omega is taken out by Hit, without even knowing what happened.
5. Baby Vegeta would go for the U6 saiyans, the teamwork of SS2 Kale, SS2 Caulifla and SS2 Cabba would be enough. If Majikayo doesn't find him first.
6. Super 17 could be a tough nut to crack with his absorption(although can't believe Goku took so long to figure it out). I think Hit is smart enough to figure it out sooner than later and take him out.
7. The strongest form of Freeza peaked at Toppo/Dyspo.
8. Cell wouldn't be enough not even for U6. One of the girls on their own can do it.
9. He might absorb most of the fodder and perhaps some stronger dude (Dyspo?) to present a threat to Kefla. If he absorbs her, then I think Jiren would need to step up.
10. Janemba would end up killing someone and get disqualified.

[Questrider]

I don't think the U.I works as a multiplier. It's more so an ultimate technique that leaves the warrior in a position to swiftly dodge and attack without needing the usage of the body's nervous system, hightening the reaction speed to attacks. For instance, Kame-Sen'nin could easily dispose of Kasheral while his BP was read as below his. It's a technique that transcends simple BP, cold hard numbers.

You sure? Because Whis goes on to describe UI in fairly good detail. When Goku was first using it, he was unable to tap into UI's power. He was simply using UI's defense. So yeah, while it's a technique per say, it's far more than cold hard numbers. Why wouldn't it be a multiplier? Kefla even asks Goku if he wants to power up more to which he says: This is enough. That right there implies he could have used UI to make his attacks even stronger. And this was when he didn't even have full control of it. He couldn't even land good hits until much later.

[TobyS]

No, it was the promotion material. They always say that for every villain. But by feats, as of now, Jiren is above Broly and Gogeta blue’s PL.

GOKU did say he is (might be?) Stronger than Beerus. And Even if we assume Jiren is stronger than all the gods incl. Beerus it's not miles more, yet Bluegeta stomped Broly with ease, so it's fair to assume Bluegeta could take Jiren just with slightly less ease.

Alternately Jiren is bit stronger than all Gods, and Beerus is not one he is stronger then in which case it's easy.

UI > Bluegeta > Jiren>=<Broly

Goku isn’t a reliable person. He has never seen Beerus at his max. If it was Whis who claimed this, then I would put more stock into what he said. Whis did train Beerus, Goku and Vegeta. So until said otherwise, I give it to Jiren. Since he was the only person to push Goku and Vegeta to reach new heights of power. If Broly was that dangerous, Goku would have used ultra instinct against him. Until dbs returns and redoes this movie and fixing the scaling. Jiren is stronger than Broly and Gogeta Blue. By a decent estimate.

I personally see it like this

MUI Goku>=<LB Jiren>Jiren 100%>=<Gogeta Blue>FP Broly

He saw Beerus fight all the other gods in the top demo thing.