The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:21 pm
Why do so many people in this form think Current Gohan isnt SSB level, despite having MANY SSB levels feats and statements in both the anime & manga?

Its ridiculous to assume ToP Gohan wouldn't even beat RoF Freeza lmao. If he was that weak he wouldn't have done even 25% as good as he did in either version of the ToP.
Well, Gohan fought base Toppo and couldn't even lay a finger on him, not even with 17 on his side. Toppo is the definition of SSB level, he stalemates Vegeta and tanks a SSB KHH in the Exhibition match.

What I don't understand is why people downplay RoF Golden Freeza. It's not like he trained in hell for the ToP, his mind training or whatever he did most likely served him to be able to control that power much better and for longer periods of time without drawbacks. He was never stated to be stronger than before, just better at it.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:49 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 pm
Well, Gohan fought base Toppo and couldn't even lay a finger on him, not even with 17 on his side. Toppo is the definition of SSB level, he stalemates Vegeta and tanks a SSB KHH in the Exhibition match.

What I don't understand is why people downplay RoF Golden Freeza. It's not like he trained in hell for the ToP, his mind training or whatever he did most likely served him to be able to control that power much better and for longer periods of time without drawbacks. He was never stated to be stronger than before, just better at it.
Gohan was said to rival Blue Goku though. He has to be at the absolute bare minimum mid Blue tier.

And Freeza was stated to get stronger in both mediums.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:26 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:21 pm
Why do so many people in this form think Current Gohan isnt SSB level, despite having MANY SSB levels feats and statements in both the anime & manga?

Its ridiculous to assume ToP Gohan wouldn't even beat RoF Freeza lmao. If he was that weak he wouldn't have done even 25% as good as he did in either version of the ToP.
Well, Gohan fought base Toppo and couldn't even lay a finger on him, not even with 17 on his side. Toppo is the definition of SSB level, he stalemates Vegeta and tanks a SSB KHH in the Exhibition match.

What I don't understand is why people downplay RoF Golden Freeza. It's not like he trained in hell for the ToP, his mind training or whatever he did most likely served him to be able to control that power much better and for longer periods of time without drawbacks. He was never stated to be stronger than before, just better at it.
ToP SSB and RoF SSB are two different levels of power. Goku and Vegeta got so much stronger between RoF and the start of ToP (like much over 10x stronger) that they're not comparable.

And Freeza was stated to have gotten much stronger thanks to his mental training. If he didnt then he wouldn't have been able to match Post-Black arc SSB Goku in their rematch.

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:35 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:49 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:51 pm
Well, Gohan fought base Toppo and couldn't even lay a finger on him, not even with 17 on his side. Toppo is the definition of SSB level, he stalemates Vegeta and tanks a SSB KHH in the Exhibition match.

What I don't understand is why people downplay RoF Golden Freeza. It's not like he trained in hell for the ToP, his mind training or whatever he did most likely served him to be able to control that power much better and for longer periods of time without drawbacks. He was never stated to be stronger than before, just better at it.
Gohan was said to rival Blue Goku though. He has to be at the absolute bare minimum mid Blue tier.

And Freeza was stated to get stronger in both mediums.
My bad, although IIRC, only in the manga he is stated to be stronger, in the anime he says he has improved his energy control in a substantial way, losing the drawbacks like the rapid stamina drain. So he didn't achieve a new power, he just perfected the one he had which was already above initial SSB, becoming "stronger" without actually getting stronger. Unless what was presented at Uranai Baba's was retconned or expanded upon in some dialogue from the ToP I don't remember.

Gohan rivals Blue Goku just as 17 does, both low blue tier for me, both trash for high-blue-tier Toppo. A match for RoF SSB, I'd say.

User avatar
Dragon Ball Gus
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: Planet Sadla

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:26 am

New Hypothetical Question
How strong would Pan be in GT if she had Super Saiyan 4? (I know sunsetshimmer is loving the sound of this question. :mrgreen:)
Caulifla best girl! :)

User avatar
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips
Regular
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:16 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:34 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:26 am
New Hypothetical Question
How strong would Pan be in GT if she had Super Saiyan 4? (I know sunsetshimmer is loving the sound of this question. :mrgreen:)
I think the real question is whether she'd age up like Goku did and whether it would make the Rule 34 situation worse.

More seriously; she'd probably get to be pretty damn strong considering how danger happy she was. Could probably have matched if not exceeded Uub by series end.
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.

Cigarettes and Whisky and Wild, Wild Women are the only reasons to get out of bed.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:35 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:35 am
My bad, although IIRC, only in the manga he is stated to be stronger, in the anime he says he has improved his energy control in a substantial way, losing the drawbacks like the rapid stamina drain. So he didn't achieve a new power, he just perfected the one he had which was already above initial SSB, becoming "stronger" without actually getting stronger. Unless what was presented at Uranai Baba's was retconned or expanded upon in some dialogue from the ToP I don't remember.

Gohan rivals Blue Goku just as 17 does, both low blue tier for me, both trash for high-blue-tier Toppo. A match for RoF SSB, I'd say.
The anime also stated it.

https://youtu.be/_hPef3Wq874?t=127
Last edited by ZombieVito on Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:50 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:26 am
New Hypothetical Question
How strong would Pan be in GT if she had Super Saiyan 4? (I know sunsetshimmer is loving the sound of this question. :mrgreen:)
To answer your question. Pan is Gohan's daughter and we saw her being pretty strong when mad which is something Gohan also displayed many times. Trunks implied that she might be stronger than him although we know that Rildo wasn't really hurt by her attack so it's hard to say if its accurate statement. I believe enraged Pan SSJ4 could've been Majuub tier at best.

Anyway, i hope to see female SSJ4 someday. Maybe for DBH avatars like Note or Xenoverse chars or maybe for U6 saiyan girls in Heroes. THe closest thing we got is Goku SSJ4 outfit in Xenoverse that can be worn by females with top covering breast similar to what Caulifla is wearing.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:01 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:35 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:35 am
My bad, although IIRC, only in the manga he is stated to be stronger, in the anime he says he has improved his energy control in a substantial way, losing the drawbacks like the rapid stamina drain. So he didn't achieve a new power, he just perfected the one he had which was already above initial SSB, becoming "stronger" without actually getting stronger. Unless what was presented at Uranai Baba's was retconned or expanded upon in some dialogue from the ToP I don't remember.

Gohan rivals Blue Goku just as 17 does, both low blue tier for me, both trash for high-blue-tier Toppo. A match for RoF SSB, I'd say.
The anime also stated it.

https://youtu.be/_hPef3Wq874?t=127
Oh the same episode, I see. I stand by my post then.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:26 am
New Hypothetical Question
How strong would Pan be in GT if she had Super Saiyan 4? (I know sunsetshimmer is loving the sound of this question. :mrgreen:)
Her base is tough to say, sort-of-enraged Pan, while not damaging it, can send Rildo to the ground. Also she probably is stronger than base CEO Trunks. Which Buu Goku was talking about is a discussion for another day that will never be settled, so there's a lot of assumption going on with her. Assuming Rildo is Fat Buu-Kid Buu level and Pan is below that, her SS would be high Z tier. And her SS4 probably between Majuub and Vegeta Baby. Definitely weaker than SS4 Goku, maybe relatable to Baby.

------

more fights

Kid Buu appears in U9 and the dogs go to fight him together
-Lavender, Basil and Bergamo vs Kid Buu (he can absorb but the dogs are aware of it)

-Namek Freeza vs Namek age Frost (we know U6 Frost stomps, but what about him from the same time period, 10 years ago)

-17&18 vs 16

-SS2 Gohan vs Perfect Cell (19 and 20 absorbed, they were artificial humans so he should be able to absorb them)

-Piccolo before merging with Kami vs Namek Freeza.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:35 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:01 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:35 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:35 am
My bad, although IIRC, only in the manga he is stated to be stronger, in the anime he says he has improved his energy control in a substantial way, losing the drawbacks like the rapid stamina drain. So he didn't achieve a new power, he just perfected the one he had which was already above initial SSB, becoming "stronger" without actually getting stronger. Unless what was presented at Uranai Baba's was retconned or expanded upon in some dialogue from the ToP I don't remember.

Gohan rivals Blue Goku just as 17 does, both low blue tier for me, both trash for high-blue-tier Toppo. A match for RoF SSB, I'd say.
The anime also stated it.

https://youtu.be/_hPef3Wq874?t=127
Oh the same episode, I see. I stand by my post then.
Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:26 am
New Hypothetical Question
How strong would Pan be in GT if she had Super Saiyan 4? (I know sunsetshimmer is loving the sound of this question. :mrgreen:)
Her base is tough to say, sort-of-enraged Pan, while not damaging it, can send Rildo to the ground. Also she probably is stronger than base CEO Trunks. Which Buu Goku was talking about is a discussion for another day that will never be settled, so there's a lot of assumption going on with her. Assuming Rildo is Fat Buu-Kid Buu level and Pan is below that, her SS would be high Z tier. And her SS4 probably between Majuub and Vegeta Baby. Definitely weaker than SS4 Goku, maybe relatable to Baby.

------

more fights

Kid Buu appears in U9 and the dogs go to fight him together
-Lavender, Basil and Bergamo vs Kid Buu (he can absorb but the dogs are aware of it)

-Namek Freeza vs Namek age Frost (we know U6 Frost stomps, but what about him from the same time period, 10 years ago)

-17&18 vs 16

-SS2 Gohan vs Perfect Cell (19 and 20 absorbed, they were artificial humans so he should be able to absorb them)

-Piccolo before merging with Kami vs Namek Freeza.
- Kid Buu gets annihilated easily. Pretty much anyone comparable to at least Post-BoG Base Goku would solo Z (particularly in the anime, not sure about the manga).

- Impossible to know since we have no info on how strong Frost was at the time.

- 16 would easily stop the cyborg twins (Z), since he was should to be somewhat better than 1st form Cell at his peak, who easily stomped 17 and Kamicollo.

- Cell can't absorb 19 & Gero since they aren't organic beings (besides Hero's brain).

- Piccolo stomps, since its implied he even surpassed Trunks' power of when he killed Mecha Freeza.

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:52 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:35 pm

- Cell can't absorb 19 & Gero since they aren't organic beings (besides Hero's brain).
Wait, they were jinzou-ningen, artificial humans like 17 and 18, shouldn't they be absorbable too?

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:52 pm

Nevermind what I said, the DBZ Kakarot archives explains 19 and 20 are syntethic and not with a human base like the absorbable twins.

User avatar
Alruneia
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:40 pm
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:57 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:52 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:35 pm

- Cell can't absorb 19 & Gero since they aren't organic beings (besides Hero's brain).
Wait, they were jinzou-ningen, artificial humans like 17 and 18, shouldn't they be absorbable too?
The original story (or at least the anime) shows that 19 is all mechanical and 20 is Gero's brain placed in a robot body. There are scenes where 19 and 20's wires and such are visible, namely when 19 is blown up by Vegeta and only his head remains, and when 20's hand is chopped off by Piccolo. (The DBZ Kakarot observation is okay too.)
Current avatar: DBU Bulla
Probably Kanzenshuu's biggest Bulla fangirl. Dragon Ball Ultimate (fanfic) progress: 69 out of 150 chapters complete

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link
(I'm just gonna start working on chapters 12-18...)

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:27 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:57 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:52 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:35 pm

- Cell can't absorb 19 & Gero since they aren't organic beings (besides Hero's brain).
Wait, they were jinzou-ningen, artificial humans like 17 and 18, shouldn't they be absorbable too?
The original story (or at least the anime) shows that 19 is all mechanical and 20 is Gero's brain placed in a robot body. There are scenes where 19 and 20's wires and such are visible, namely when 19 is blown up by Vegeta and only his head remains, and when 20's hand is chopped off by Piccolo. (The DBZ Kakarot observation is okay too.)
Yeah, so many wires, I completely forgot about that.

GatoF
Newbie
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:55 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:27 am

1 - SSJ2 Goku Black vs Base Broly
2 - Tien (RoF) and Krillin (RoF) vs Android 19 and Android 20
3- Piccolo (Moro) vs Present Zamasu
4- Ssj2 Cabba(ToP) vs 100% final form Frost (ToP no poison)
5 - Majin Buu (Grand Supreme Kai control) vs Majuub

User avatar
TobyS
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:33 pm

GatoF wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:27 am
1 - SSJ2 Goku Black vs Base Broly
2 - Tien (RoF) and Krillin (RoF) vs Android 19 and Android 20
3- Piccolo (Moro) vs Present Zamasu
4- Ssj2 Cabba(ToP) vs 100% final form Frost (ToP no poison)
5 - Majin Buu (Grand Supreme Kai control) vs Majuub
Base pre rage got slapped around by SS1 and red God so Black.
The blade thing would do it in a pinch.

If they can absorb Kikohos they lose.
I think they'd need two on one to win agains't either android.

Not sure if Piccolo is also SS2 tier in the manga. Zam but not a stomp.

Manga wise Not far behind U7 in the same form and SS1 Goku slapped frosts shit. So SS2 Cabba can take it, but with some effort.

He's just smarter than fat Buu, but his extra god power died with Kid Buu.
So Majuub already absorbed fat buu and his power before that was on par with begining of GT goku who's haxed.
Majuub takes it.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1779
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:44 pm

GatoF wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:27 am
1 - SSJ2 Goku Black vs Base Broly
2 - Tien (RoF) and Krillin (RoF) vs Android 19 and Android 20
3- Piccolo (Moro) vs Present Zamasu
4- Ssj2 Cabba(ToP) vs 100% final form Frost (ToP no poison)
5 - Majin Buu (Grand Supreme Kai control) vs Majuub
- Ssj2 Black doesn't exist. There's Ssj Black, but only in the manga.
- 19 can solo on his own.
- Present Zamasu's only feat in the manga was defeating Kibito with some trouble. Piccolo takes it.
- Cabba doesn't even need Ssj2 to win.
- This Buu curbstomped Moro. He wins.

User avatar
Mac
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:20 pm
Location: New York, United States

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mac » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:07 pm

GT Pan (Shadow Dragons Saga) I'm just curious where you guys rank her.

Pan vs SSJ1 Goten (Buu Saga)
Pan vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
Pan vs Majin Vegeta
Pan vs Buutenks
Pan vs SSJG Goku (Beerus fight)

User avatar
Koitsukai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:13 pm

GatoF wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:27 am
1 - SSJ2 Goku Black vs Base Broly
2 - Tien (RoF) and Krillin (RoF) vs Android 19 and Android 20
3- Piccolo (Moro) vs Present Zamasu
4- Ssj2 Cabba(ToP) vs 100% final form Frost (ToP no poison)
5 - Majin Buu (Grand Supreme Kai control) vs Majuub
1- Black should do as good as Vegeta did.
2- I think if their teamwork is on point, they can take them. I mean, Tenshinhan managed to stall 2nd Form Cell on his own. A stronger version of himself, aided by Krilin, might have a chance against the weakest androids.
3- I don't know if Piccolo can tangle with DBS SS2 Goku, who is were Zamasu's roof is.
4- U6 RoF FF Frost was weaker than SS Goku, so by the ToP he might be equal to SS Goku, specially with his full power. SS2 Caulifla wasn't enough to overpower a tired base Goku, so if Caulifla and Cabba are equals, they would be out against a well-rested SS Goku. I'm going with Frost.
5- Majuub I think. He is part Majin Buu, so...

Mireya
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:54 pm

Kid Buu appears in U9 and the dogs go to fight him together
-Lavender, Basil and Bergamo vs Kid Buu (he can absorb but the dogs are aware of it)

-Namek Freeza vs Namek age Frost (we know U6 Frost stomps, but what about him from the same time period, 10 years ago)

-17&18 vs 16

-SS2 Gohan vs Perfect Cell (19 and 20 absorbed, they were artificial humans so he should be able to absorb them)

-Piccolo before merging with Kami vs Namek Freeza.
1 -- The wolves fared fairly well against Mr. Boo whom, although could land a few shots, seemed pretty outclassed by Kid Boo. So Kid Boo has got this.

2 -- Tough to say as we have nothing expanding Frost's backstory or his development as a warrior. Still I'd give this to Frost under the assumption he hasn't evolved that much.

3 -- 16 wins with no problems. Cell post humans is at the same level as him and yet not even the combined efforts of Piccolo and #17 could help it against this Cell. It would be of little difference against #16, either.

4 -- Piccolo should win this without problems as, while not 100% stated, most evidences are on his side such as him stating he doesn't lack confidence in his own powers knowing these expected foes are above 3 years later and later on holding the possibility of he and Vegeta going too strong as a likely scenario in the off chance the androids weren't weaker than foretold.

Post Reply