The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:27 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.
1) Vegito needs SSB to fight Zamasu at his max. With SSG he'd be outclassed, his fusees didn't grow that much stronger by the time the ToP started, for SSG to do what SSB does.

2) I think Jiren has this, but it could go either way. Goku needed UI to counter his giant sun, I think Gogeta would need SSB to do so.

3) Goku should still be the strongest chikuijin even in his base form. Krilin was rusty already by that arc, so his techniques and fighting style might not be as sharp for it to make it a close fight, in spite of the power difference,

4) Freeza. Kefla was SSG level, I don't think SSG level from the ToP is on SSB level from a few arcs ago. Actually, Golden Freeza was stronger than SSB, so SSG would need to be even stronger.

5) Goku takes it. Gohan easily disposed of regular Perfect Cell Jrs, if he were to fight SPC Jrs, he could also do it , but maybe struggle a little bit, needing more than one hit to take them out. And Goku was already stronger than Gohan, so he might take them out as easily as Gohan took out the original Jrs.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8233
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:35 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:23 pmIf Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become
Omnipotent.
MrGohanks wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:23 pmand who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?
Daishinkan.

"Studies" show that Freeza catching up to Goku in four months and Android 17 catching up to Goku in thirteen years without doing anything are both okay, Cell training under Whis for a year should make him an omnipotent guy, be a very plausible thing to occur and be something viewers will come to accept at the end of the day.
The fact that Cell is in his perfect form means something regarding Android 17 must still be inside of him, which will help him to reach that level. Combine that with Freeza's "increase rate in power" and the zenkai thing (if it still exists), and you have this dude who can reach maximum power in no time.

Cell wouldn't be stuck in Super Saiyan 2 either, if he couldn't get god Ki/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, then he'll be able to have Super Saiyan 3 at least. If he has any issues with said transformation, Golden Cell kicks in. Oh, Cell now can become Orange Cell too, thanks to Piccolo (as well as the red-eyed form, whatever it might be). I don't remember if he has Gohan's cells, if he does, Beast Cell should be available to him (Cell can also ask Shenlong to have his potential unlocked and achieve Ultimate).

Since Mira is a "Cell 2.0", all of this goes to him as well. They both have the means to reach omnipotence in this franchise. Hopefully someone eventually notices this and officialize it.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5886
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:18 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:28 am Who’s the strongest character Pre-ToP Piccolo (the one that trained Gohan) could beat from Z and GT?
Can he beat Super Buu? Buutenks? Dabura?
What about after making Gohan grow much stronger, who can ToP Piccolo beat from Z and GT?
Piccolo pre episode 90 beats any SS2 from the Boo arc and he falls to any version of Boo. Post episode 90 he solos everyone from Z with the exception of SS Vegetto.
MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.
1) Zamasu finger flicks.
2) Jiren finger flicks.
3) I'm going to say Krillin. I do believe he trained with 18 for that month in preparation for the TB and grew way stronger as a result.
4) Freeza finger flicks.
5) I have no idea how strong a Super Perfect Cell Junior is supposed to be lol. I guess Goku loses if all 7 attack at the same time.

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2393
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:33 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:28 am Who’s the strongest character Pre-ToP Piccolo (the one that trained Gohan) could beat from Z and GT?
Can he beat Super Buu? Buutenks? Dabura?
What about after making Gohan grow much stronger, who can ToP Piccolo beat from Z and GT?
The Piccolo from this time could possibly defeat the weaker iterations of Buu. It's debatable he may have surpassed the BOG Super Saiyans by the U6 tournament. Skip ahead three sagas and now Piccolo is pressuring Gohan to the point of submission when the Saiyan uses his Super Saiyan 2 form. Gohan's previous opponent, Lavender, was a challenge for an untransformed Vegeta during the Tournament of power; an opponent whom Gohan himself was compelled to use SSJ again but at that point who knows how much of a toll Lavender's toxin had on him. Gohan seemed generally comparable to his father and Vegeta, perhaps a bit weaker and less tuned of course due to lack of fighting for years.

Does the above sequence of interactions make sense? I don't know. One of Piccolo's most powerful attacks was withstood by base Goku during their practice match and that was after the Namekian had trained with Gohan. Prior to their training Gohan could measure up with an opponent who pressured base Vegeta. Something we know to have occurred three sagas following the Copy Vegeta incident with SSJ3 Gotenks. Sound logical? Honestly, no. It doesn't make sense for a waning base Gohan to challenge an opponent who is probably much stronger than what Vegeta's imitation displayed against a Super Buu level fusion. Now SSJ2 Gohan being stronger than Good Buu, I could believe that.

I suppose SSJ3 Goku and base Gotenks are where Piccolo stops, I think. After training with Gohan maybe Super Buu or even Buutenks is a possibility. It's all an inconsistent mess which I doubt the writing staff paid close attention to. If you consider Copy Vegeta then Piccolo might be able to defeat everything from the Z era and then move on to become a threat to the stronger Shadow Dragons.
MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.
SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality): I'm leaning towards Zamasu. The Saiyans' strength escalated greatly between the Future Trunks and Tournament of Power sagas but I doubt it was to the tune of being multiple dozens of times stronger. Merged Zamasu was comparable with SSJB Vegetto from the same arc. Super Saiyan God alone isn't going to cut it for this fight. His only hope would be to use the Mafuba, provided he has the tools necessary.

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly): Do you mean before the upper portion of Jiren's unitard was reduced to tatters and he had obtained that garish looking power boost to fight against MUI Goku with? I don't know. You have so many different forms and iterations of forms that it all gets confusing. The Jiren here overwhelmed Ultra Instinct Sign Goku. Is SSJG Gogeta from the Broly film stronger? I would say so. I think that answers it for me.

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc): Somehow Krillin would win this unless Goku resorted to the Kaioken. I don't know how but by extension of my interpretation of Tenshinhan's growth, I believe Krillin would defeat this version of Goku.

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF): Golden Freeza from the ROF era boasted a power level that was superior to the blue Saiyans' from that time. From her time of battling Goku, Kefla's opponent was still reeling from the exhaustion of challenging the Pride Troopers' poster child. Her performance was likely circumstantial and it may not have been guaranteed that she could win against SSJG Goku who was fully rested. How that translates into this fight is contingent on the comparability of red from the TOP saga with blue from ROF. Considering that Hit's standing gradually decreased from threatening a Kaioken amplified blue to equalling just blue and then afterwards sharing a battlefield with red Goku, I believe that should answer this. Kefla will win.

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.: If the Cell Jrs receive the same increase as their progenitor did then they may come to rival the MSSJs from the Cell Games. Keep in mind that Super Perfect Cell was arguably a peer of SSJ2 Gohan's; this when coming off being significantly stronger than the MSSJs. It wasn't too big of a jump. I doubt it even doubled his power. It probably wouldn't be enough for them to oppose SSJ2 Gohan from the same era, let alone the stronger SSJ2 Goku from the Buu arc.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4043
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:49 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)
Since this is the Anime you are talking about, Zamasu oneshots him. Vegito went full power Blue mode and he still had issues with Zamasu at several points during their fight.

If this was the Manga, it would be a very interesting match-up. Zamasu was overwhelmed by SSB Vegito, but I see him doing quite well against SSG Vegito, since he would be much weaker in raw power. He'd be faster (SSG is faster and less taxing than SSB, this is the point of Vegeta alternating the two forms against Goku Black), but I'm pretty sure Zamasu can deal with fast opponents simply by using his telekinesis force choke technique as soon as they appear. Plus Zamasu is a very nimble opponent because he can teleport parts of his bodies away like Janemba did, so it would be hard to hit him.

Regardless, Vegito felt the need to go SSB, despite knowing that more power wasn't going to make a difference against an Immortal. This implies that he deemed his SSG insufficient against Fused Zamasu, regardless of the medium.

User avatar
FPSSJ4_Goku
Regular
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:33 pm
Location: New York, US
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:19 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:18 pm
5) I have no idea how strong a Super Perfect Cell Junior is supposed to be lol.
Well, the Cell Juniors were all said to be equal to Cell himself, so the Super Perfect Cell Juniors are probably just equal to Super Perfect Cell
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

If you'd like, check out my YouTube channel, and maybe subscribe?

User avatar
ZombieVito
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5886
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:40 am

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:19 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:18 pm
5) I have no idea how strong a Super Perfect Cell Junior is supposed to be lol.
Well, the Cell Juniors were all said to be equal to Cell himself, so the Super Perfect Cell Juniors are probably just equal to Super Perfect Cell
They clearly weren't. No one would have been shocked at SS2 Gohan beating FP Cell otherwise.

Also the Daizenshuu says they were equal to Vegeta and Trunks.

User avatar
Goku9001
Regular
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:37 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:40 am

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.
SSJG Vegetto (ToP Anime) vs. Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality): At the Saiyans' peak power, Vegetto wins no contest. As of Episode 122, the power Jiren was using was stated to be stronger than anything Vegeta had ever encountered. The Saiyans had continued to evolve to the point where they were pushing back Jiren and forced him to use even more power. That is naturally a gargantuan difference that is much larger than the difference between God and Blue. Even without taking that into consideration, Vegeta was Goku's equal and Goku required Kaioken x10 Blue to match Toppo's power. By the time the tournament started, Blue Vegeta was capable of battling Toppo and Blue Goku was considered to be the strongest fighter at the tournament by a decent margin by the time he first battled Jiren. That power progression is enough for Vegetto to win, especially since Merged Zamasu can no longer regenerate from his attacks so he would naturally grow weaker and weaker as the fight progresses.

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs. SSJG Gogeta (DBS Broly): The novelization implies that SSJ Broly was the strongest fighter in existence according to Frieza barring obvious exceptions. So naturally, Super Gogeta let alone SSJG Gogeta should definitely be stronger than Jiren.

Kuririn (Buu Saga) vs. Base Goku (Android): I'm leaning towards Base Goku. I don't think there's a massive difference between the humans and the Base Saiyans during the Android arc to begin with. The humans' energies were stated to be substantial for Android 20. But, I don't see anything that suggests Kuririn had improved substantially so I'll stick with Goku.

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs. Golden Frieza (RoF): Base Kefla wins, no contest. It was firmly established that Base Kefla was stronger than both Blue Vegeta and Toppo during that time. Vegeta caught wind of Kefla's power, was anxious about it, and was distracted long enough for Toppo to almost overcome him. Vegeta's response to Base Kefla's power clearly shows that Base Kefla was stronger than his own. This was Vegeta who had grown stronger in preparation for Universe 6 Tournament, during the Copy Vegeta arc, training in the RoSaT to overcome SSJR Goku Black at his peak, powered up tremendously to briefly overpower Merged Zamasu, and during his training in preparation of the Tournament of Power. Base Kefla is firmly much stronger than Golden Frieza in the anime.

SSJ2 Goku (Buu) vs. Super Perfect Cell Jrs.: Hard to say. I still think SSJ2 Goku would be over twice as strong as them so he would naturally win quite easily.

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:26 am

GatoF wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:37 pm 1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.
1) Gotenks is made of stronger guys, so he should win fairy easily even though he’s made from an inferior method.

2) Freeza vaporizes Boo with no problem. He was keeping up with Dyspo who’d beaten up Hit pretty badly. Base Freeza is more like, SSJG level than just base level.

3) One or two Gohans should be more than enough. With that official power level of 200k there’s hardly anything the Ginyu Force can do without some really tight teamwork.
MrGohanks wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:23 pm If Super Perfect Cell came back to life and trained for a whole year with Whis, how strong do you think he would become and who is the strongest character do you think he could beat?
Cell is much stronger than Pre RoF Freeza, trains thrice as much, with the best teacher in the universe and might be more gifted than Freeza. I think it’s fair to say he’s coming out stronger than ToP Freeza. Maybe Kaio-Ken Goku level? Or Vegetto Blue level? I’m going to draw the line at Kefla and Hakaishin Toppo for him, but at least he can outlast Kefla’s fusion time I think. And that’s not even taking into account a potential new form, which I have no idea how strong it could be.
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:28 am Who’s the strongest character Pre-ToP Piccolo (the one that trained Gohan) could beat from Z and GT?
Can he beat Super Buu? Buutenks? Dabura?
What about after making Gohan grow much stronger, who can ToP Piccolo beat from Z and GT?
Probably beats everyone. I don’t buy this “retcon” stuff, when have power levels ever been retconned in Dragon Ball? At the very least he’s Post Rosat SSJ1 or 2 Gotenks level since he’s stronger than Exhibiton Match SSJ2 Gohan, and Base Gohan was only somewhat below Mr Boo given how they compared to Lavender and Basil.

For simplicity’s sake, I don’t think Piccolo improved much if at all when he trained Gohan. Their training was mostly focused on
MrGohanks wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:32 pm SSG Vegito (ToP anime) vs Full Power Merged Zamasu (Anime, no immortality)

Base Jiren (Full Power) vs SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly)

Krillin (Buu saga) vs Base Goku (start of Android arc)

Base Kefla (ToP anime) vs Golden Freeza (RoF)

SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc) vs All 7 Super Perfect Cell Jrs.
Goku by the start of the ToP was comparable to Hit as a SSJG, meaning Start of ToP SSJG ~ FT Saga SSJB at least. At best the fight is a replay of the original one, and Vegetto might win depending on whether Zamasu healer, tanked or just healed away that Final Kamehameha.

SSJG is just a mere fraction of SSJB. I don’t think Gogeta Blue ends up many times above Jiren, so God Gogeta gets destroyed.

Kefla one shots. She’d probably survive a bit even with ToP Freeza. Even the unfused girls could probably take Pre FT Saga SSJBs by this point.

Goku fairly easily. I don’t think Kuririn was far behind in the Androids Saga, but after slacking off for all those years I don’t think he’s closed the gap.

Goku wins as easily as Gohan did. Going Super Perfect isn’t as impressive as going SSJ2. Cell was greatly above SSJ1 Gohan but still died to SSJ2 Gohan with that power up. I think the Cell Jrs would be like, Cell Games Goku level, so even SSJ1 Goku would be able to hang around with a few of them.
Battle Powers List (Manga)

Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm

Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiyan007 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:26 am

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)
Baby doesn't stand a chance at all

ikari Broly >SSG Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bog Goku who nearly destroyed the universe in a couple of punches

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4043
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:21 pm

Saiyan007 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:26 am
Koitsukai wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)
Baby doesn't stand a chance at all

ikari Broly >SSG Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bog Goku who nearly destroyed the universe in a couple of punches
I don't think there's even any Universal character in GT at all.

Even Omega Shenron couldn't take over the entire Universe instantly but had to slowly spread his influence, meanwhile Goku and Beerus were straight up going to destroy it with their fight.

So basically GT gets cleared by anyone who is equal to or stronger than SSG Goku and 10% Beerus.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm

How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku? Also:

SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc)

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc)

Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron

User avatar
Galan007
Regular
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Galan007 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:30 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku?
If we're talking manga, then the heavy implication is that Beerus is still above current MUI Goku. Meanwhile, Whis is capable of KO'ing Beerus with one casual chop.

That said, Whis is likely still orders of magnitude beyond Goku at this point.

User avatar
FPSSJ4_Goku
Regular
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:33 pm
Location: New York, US
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:34 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:21 pm
Saiyan007 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:26 am
Koitsukai wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)
Baby doesn't stand a chance at all

ikari Broly >SSG Vegeta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bog Goku who nearly destroyed the universe in a couple of punches
I don't think there's even any Universal character in GT at all.
Would you take a gamble and say that Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta would be universal with the x100 Big Bang Kamehameha?
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

If you'd like, check out my YouTube channel, and maybe subscribe?

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:03 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)
As everyone else pointed out, GT hardly ever stands to Super. Broly will point at Baby and he blows up, Vegeta vs Saibaman style.
MrGohanks wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku? Also:

SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc)

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc)

Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron
Last time we had a solid placement on Whis he was 1.5x Beerus. I’m not sure if Beerus is the strongest anymore, but I like to keep Whis with that kind of advantage over whoever’s the strongest right now. That title probably belongs to either Gogeta Blue or Beast Gohan, so Whis can easily be 2x as strong as UI Goku, maybe even more.

I’ll give it to Kefla. SSJ Kefla rivaled the Genki-Dama that was several tens of times Early ToP SSJB. I can see Vegeta getting some 10x stronger in his Yardrat training, but not to this extent.

RoF Piccolo was weaker than Base Gohan who wasn’t even as strong as his Boo Saga self. Goku won’t even need SSJ here.

Tenshinhan doesn’t have any real feats, but I’d say he one shots since I doubt he’s far behind Kuririn and Roshi.

Super 17 was pretty strong, but Yi Xing Long just tanked a Kamehameha x10. 17’s absorptions can help him for a minute, but he’s going to lose anyway.
Battle Powers List (Manga)

Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2393
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:07 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:32 pm Super Baby 2 vs DBS Broly
(Baby can turn golden ohzaru, Broly can use his ikari form but not SS)
Broly would have my wager here as his Ikari state was giving a good fight to blue Goku. Great Ape Baby would be hardpressed to defeat SSJG Goku during his onset in the BOG saga.
MrGohanks wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku? Also:

SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc)

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc)

Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron
A question where one of the characters in question has been in an indeterminate condition of strength that is ever malleable for suiting the needs of the author. At least with this most recent go around Goku could prompt Whis into applying himself with stances, focused defensive actions and retaliatory blows. The angel characterised Goku's Ultra Instinct as being like that of a new explorational endeavour that he was only just getting into the depths of. Whis seems to be an accomplished UI user who may be a prodigy even compared to the likes of his fellow angels. On a numerical scale I would place Whis at an 8 or 9 out of 10 whereas Goku is maybe 2 or 3 at the time of their battle.

SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc): I'm leaning towards Vegeta. Kefla's power as a regular Super Saiyan was discussed by pertinent members of the audience with Vados speculating that her strength may not guarantee Kefla victory in a potential fight with blue Goku if he were undamaged and refreshed. The Vegeta in question is from two story narratives in the future after the Saiyan Prince has been training earnestly. Golden Freeza from the Broly film could arguably take Kefla here.

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga): We have no way to properly determine what Piccolo's strength was at this time. In both the film and anime renderings of BOG he was easily dispensed with by Beerus. In the following saga his power was only comparable to an out of practice base Gohan's. Make of that what you will. It may be safe to conclude that Piccolo is stronger than base Goku and Vegeta during the Champa tournament. After all his actions against Frost who prompted Vegeta subsequently to transform do lean towards him being strong enough to challenge an opponent that requires Super Saiyan. BOG is some time before the U6 tournament, however.

I want to place BOG Piccolo somewhere around the Cell Games MSSJs or perhaps even a bit stronger but not yet comparable with Cell. If it's the more generous projection then maybe Piccolo can take on Buu arc SSJ Goku on equal footing or better. The Namekian would need an advantage to win though as Goku is without a doubt the more skilled of the two.

Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc): The humans tend to have an incongruent array of feats, statements and implicative positions that fling them from one possible place on the charts to the other. If we judge the set up of the anime by what the studio members themselves say then the humans are all still weaker than the Saiyan children; this doesn't mean they're weaker than an early Super Saiyan like Android arc Vegeta. What is Tenshinhan's claim to credence for surpassing this Vegeta though? It would probably be his weathering the brunt of an attack from a Roshi who impressed base Goku. Maybe Tenshinhan is stronger than this iteration of Vegeta. At the very least his Shin Kikoho should easily destroy the Saiyan Prince.

Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron : Didn't Syn Shenron initially overwhelm a blinded SSJ4 Goku who was at half strength? We can only speculate as to how powerful he may have actually been but I'm leaning towards Syn only being as strong as SSJ4 Goku with all of his power at the most if we're taking into account the dragon's lack of impact of any kind from the Kamehameha. Super 17 apparently surpassed SSJ4 Goku when he absorbed the kamikaze attack from Goku, right? On the other hand we see Syn Shenron survive an attack intended to kill him by an SSJ4 Goku who had exceeded his limits.

Toss up here I might side with Super 17 for the simple reason that his energy is infinite and he can absorb his opponent's ki projectiles.

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiyan007 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:29 pm

Manga Base TOP Goku vs Super Perfect Cell

SSJ2 Manga Trunks vs Kid buu

Moro 73 Vs Jiren and Broly

Buu saga piccolo vs Cell Games Goku

Manga Zamasu vs Majin Vegeta

SSJ Goku & Gohan Cell Games vs Perfect Cell

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:11 am

MrGohanks wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku? Also:

SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc)

Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)

Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc)

Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron
1) Many, many times stronger. Goku's been growing stronger and surpassing foes that were much stronger than he was, and he is still below Beerus, who is one shot material for a suppressed Whis. Since Whis is more of a moving goalpost than Beerus, there's no way to tell how strong he is, and probably we'll never know. No matter how much stronger than Gas the next foe is, and no matter how much stronger Goku gets to beat him, he will still be far from Whis.


2) With SSBE he is above 4th Sign Goku, and 2nd Sign was already too much for Kefla's SS2. I just don't see SSB Vegeta losing to a lesser form of Kefla, when he is one boost away from beating the strongest version of the "form" that rung her out at her strongest.

3) Piccolo got surpassed a long time ago by regular SS. His decline should've already been a thing by BoG, so he shouldn't be on par with a form that was already ahead of him at his best. I'd give it to Goku.

4) Tenshinhan ain't touching no Super Saiyan. Only during the ToP he could shoot a NKH on a busy SS Vegeta and do something. He'd need him to be distracted, but most importantly, SS Vegeta cannot know he is fighting Tenshinhan to lose to him.

5) I remember Super 17's speed was his greatest asset or what Goku was struggling the most, and also Suu Shenron was incredibly fast, too. No comment was made but they should be at least as fast. That speed didn't prevent Ih Shenron from oneshotting him and then fucking up SS4 with no effort. I'm going with Ih, here, specially because he is not braindead like GT Goku, he is not spamming ki attacks on strangers, he'll melee the fuck out of Super 17.
Saiyan007 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:29 pm Manga Base TOP Goku vs Super Perfect Cell

SSJ2 Manga Trunks vs Kid buu

Moro 73 Vs Jiren and Broly

Buu saga piccolo vs Cell Games Goku

Manga Zamasu vs Majin Vegeta

SSJ Goku & Gohan Cell Games vs Perfect Cell
1) An arc prior, he needed SS2 to match Trunks' who he said was even stronger than the Gohan that killed Cell, having Trunks and himself on a very specific tier. Therefore, he'd need to become 100x stronger to be on that level without SS2. Cell wins.

2) Trunks definitely. He was overwhelming SS3 Goku, who by now should destroy Kid Buu.

3) Moro73 without any problems actually. He is individually stronger than both of them, although if they were to team up, it would be a problem (the saiyans never fought him together), Broly would be the most fun source of food for Moro. Just a mindless brute that is weaker than Moro. Jiren would have to face a Moro73 powered up by Broly, and if he grabs his neck, fuck it.

4) I think Goku takes it. Mainly RoF, and also U6, established Piccolo's growth wasn't as great as people originally thought. So, after the Buu arc and BoG, he is not getting any stronger, so I doubt he close the gap early on.

5) Future Manga Zamasu was said to be even weaker than Trunks, who was above Z SS3 tier. Present Zamasu probably wasn't that strong 20 years ago, so if he got 10x stronger in that period of time, that already makes him weaker than Majin Vegeta. If we go by his sparring session with Kibito, which had him struggle a tiny bit, then he is not touching Majin Geets.

6) I think they could do it. Of course, Cell powers up to his full power and he cleans the closet, but the power he showed while not being serious should be surpassed by a Son Family Team Up, and they might be able to kill him before he goes FP. Cells is full of himself, enough for it to backfire on him.

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:39 pm

Saiyan007 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:29 pm Manga Base TOP Goku vs Super Perfect Cell

SSJ2 Manga Trunks vs Kid buu

Moro 73 Vs Jiren and Broly

Buu saga piccolo vs Cell Games Goku

Manga Zamasu vs Majin Vegeta

SSJ Goku & Gohan Cell Games vs Perfect Cell
Probably Cell. I’m leaning towards Goku not being very different from his Z self today. Toyotaro didn’t have RoF in mind when writing the manga, and being dimensions above other Z Fighters in base isn’t anything beyond his Boo Saga power anyway.

Trunks did the same training that made Gohan about as strong as Fat Boo, and then he trained his ass off for years. Normal SSJ2 Trunks vs Boo could be a good fight, but in reality Trunks would go FPSSJ2 and vaporize Boo.

Moro. Jiren and Broly could pull with good teamwork, but these guys are terrible team players.

Goku goes to base and one shots. Piccolo sort of ran into a wall between the Cell Games and Super, and he’s lucky if he can beat Semi Cell post Rosat.

Zamasu one shots. He’s said to be much weaker than Trunks, but I think he’s comfortably above SSJ2 level still. Goku still opts to use SSJG to beat him up after the Mafuba fails.

Perfect Cell. Dabra is about as strong as Cell, and he’s confident on taking 3 SSJs at once. 2 is just too easy.
Battle Powers List (Manga)

Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

Post Reply