The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Perfect]

Yeah, I mean saying it means he's stronger is really one of many interpretations. The main argument I see for it is Gohan struggling when transformed against him, but he also struggled in his base form initially. By that logic, Base Goten > SSJ Gohan, which is indeed not true. We can attribute all of it to surprise really, seeing that Gohan wasn't expecting Goten to be that strong and wasn't able to react appropriately, much like his encounter with his base form (plus why would Gohan even use his maximum during a training session).

[jackjack]

Would have to say people with the "gravity resistance = A's stronger than B" argument have little room to stand on; pre-SSJ Gohan comments that his body feels heavy under mere 10g, which is exactly what Yamcha complains about while training with Kaio. So by that logic I guess Raditz dwarfs them both in strength? What about the Saiyan kids that had lived in a planet with the same gravitational pull?

[Perfect]

It makes little difference, especially seeing that once he transforms he has no issues, so it's literally the gravity being too strong for his base form.

Plus Vegeta and Goku could easily do a shit ton of gravity during the Cell arc, since Goku during the Freeza arc could withstand x100 easily before he landed (also note the anime shows Vegeta at x500 gravity whereas the manga only shows x300). Also note that Gohan doesn't struggle under the gravity, he's just taken aback by it, not actually struggling under it. He's surprised by how thin the air is, basically the atmosphere. It's a culmination of things that momentarily takes him aback, as opposed to "getting used to it". If anything, he'd have to get used to looking out into the hypnotic white space.

[jackjack]

I'm pretty sure 20x (never mind 100x) would give Gohan just as much trouble seeing how a 8k Goku still struggles with 20x. Would I believe Gohan is < 90k? Not a chance.

[Perfect]

How would it give him trouble when the manga gives no indication of any such incident? He merely comments on air and atmosphere, which of course involves the gravity, stating how weird it is. There's not one indication he's struggling with it, since he walks fine in every panel, unlike Trunks.

[jackjack]

Did you read my post carefully?

[Perfect]

Again, considering there's indication of x10 causing him to struggle, there's no indication x20 would either.

[jackjack]

seeing how a 8k Goku still struggles with 20x

That'd be an indication^

[Perfect]

Considering Gohan's well in the millions, that means absolutely nothing.

[jackjack]

...so does Trunks struggling with 150x.

[Perfect]

Because quite clearly that's too much for him? I don't know how to make myself any clearer. Goku at 8k is of course going to struggle with x20. Obviously someone in the millions would be able to handle x10 (because someone in the thousands has), but we know Vegeta in his base form struggled with x300 and x500, which was well into the millions. Goku at 90k can well withstand x100. There comes a point where if you're strong enough, you're strong enough. You wouldn't be struggling the way Trunks was, you might look a little goofy and feel weird, but you wouldn't be shaking, almost unable to walk.

[jackjack]

If you're saying Trunks must be below a certain level, what would that be? 90k?

[Fox666]

also note the anime shows Vegeta at x500 gravity whereas the manga only shows x300

Well, technically the manga doesn't show anything, expect for Vegeta asking Dr. Brief for a 300x gravity room and a panel of him struggling at an unknow gravity.

The Daizenshuu somewhere says that Goten is equal to Gohan, and that Trunks is stronger than #18, from what people here say.

The Daizenshuu doesn't state anything about Trunks being stronger than No.18. It only says he had an even fight with her at the Budokai and doesn't specify to which form it refers.

[jackjack]

Not to mention Trunks is shown doing one-finger push ups and we don't know what gravity setting he's in, either.

[Perfect]

Below Cell arc Vegeta/Goku for certain:

Trunks - 12
Goten - 12
Vegeta (Cell arc) - 16
Goku (Cell arc) - 15
Vegeta - 27
Goku - 27.8

Well, technically the manga doesn't show anything, expect Vegeta asking Dr. Brief for a 300x gravity room and a panel of him struggling at an unknow gravity.

Regardless of which, Vegeta would have to be training at a level beyond x100 given his strength. He could have been very well stronger than Goku given the time spent training from his revival to Freeza's invasion. That would put him at something like 3-4 million? Who knows, but it'd have to be over x100; even if he didn't get any stronger in that time frame. Remember that chi is what allows the user to continually train under the stress of such high gravity, it was only after Goku's continuous surpluses of zenkai, raising his battle power, that allowed him to kept upping the gravity. Through this we know that fundamentally, the higher the battle power, the higher the gravity one can train under.

Not to mention Trunks is shown doing one-finger push ups and we don't know what gravity setting he's in, either.

It could very well be a very low setting. There's no figure given, unlike the x300 model we have, so that's completely pointless to bring up (not to mention he's actually struggling with it).

Plus y'know, the anime is as valid as any other supplementary material, unless it directly contradicts something, which it doesn't here.

[Fox666]

[jackjack]

I'd definitely place them above the pre-ROSAT Saiyans.

[Perfect]

If Trunks were to struggle in his base form, but not in his SSJ form immediately after, how does that not mean that the higher the battle power the more gravity one can take on? Obviously if he weren't used to the gravity he would still be struggling in his SSJ form. Thus by that logic they'd be below the Pre-RoSaT Saiyans.

[jackjack]

By that logic pre-SSJ Gohan would be far, far below 90k.

The theory I have is that one, while still unaccustomed to higher gravity levels, would need to have power surpassing 10 million to not get initially affected by 10x gravity, and over 150 million for 150x and so on...

[Perfect]

By that logic pre-SSJ Gohan would be far, far below 90k.

He not once shows an indication of struggling.

The theory I have is that one, while still unaccustomed to higher gravity levels, would need to have power far surpassing 10 million to not get initially affected by 10x gravity, and over 150 million for 150x and so on...

Why would they have to have a battle power that high to overcome that amount of gravity? Why would it have to be those exact numbers? What indicates that correlation between battle power and gravity? Plus Goku wasn't phased by x100 a day or so before reaching Namek and he was only at 90k.