The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:10 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate Gohan vs Base Vegetto. Go!
Rou Kaioshin said that if Goku & Gohan were to merge with Potara, they would be strong enough to beat Gotenks Boo without Super Saiyan, because "Potara are that extreme". Since I believe that Vegetto is stronger than hypothetical GokuXGohan in base/SS/2/3, with GokuXGohan only surpassing Vegetto with his Ultimate state, then base Vegetto beats Ultimate Gohan.
This. Vegetto stomps Gohan even harder than Buutenks did.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:44 pm

Ultimate Gokhan is already in base though.... Naturally he would think they didn't need SSJ to win.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:51 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate Gohkan is already in base though.... Naturally he would think they didn't need SSJ to win.
Since his appearance is different when he is fighting and when he is not (different hairstyle & eyes), and since we see him powering up in BoG like he is transforming, I think that the Ultimate state is different from his base state. And also, Rou Kaioshin said that GokuXGohan wouldn't need Super Saiyan because of the power of the Potara, not because of Gohan's power.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:00 pm

Can't both Gohan's power and the Potara's power being factored here? No Rou Kaioshin said transforming is the wrong way of doing things. Ultimate Gohan isn't a transformation. It's his base form, just powered up. Gohan's power could be merely doubled and he would still Kick Buutenks' ass.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:10 pm

I didn't say that the Ultimate power-up is a transformation, I said that it's a different state. And as for what Kaioshin was talking about, here is the line:

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”
Doesn't sound like he is talking about Ultimate to me.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:44 pm

He says probably, he doesn't know. We also don't even know how Gohan's ultimate form will effect the fusion. Hypothetical Gokhan could very well be stronger than Vegetto despite the rival boost since Gohan is so powerful. I have Ultimate Gokhan hitting about 46,200,000,000,000 upon fusing with Goku and that's as strong as he can get. I don't think he can go SSJ. If I went with my current level for base Vegetto, which is only stronger than SSJ2 Gotenks, his SSJ3 level would be 25,600,000,000,000. Which makes sense IMO. So I have Ultimate Gohan taking this
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:54 pm

IMO, Vegetto would be stronger than GokuXGohan because Goku matches better with Vegeta than with Gohan. Goku & Vegeta belong to the same race, they are around the same age, they are equals, they are both fighters at heart, they are both fighting geniuses, and they are both rivals. On the other hand, Goku & Gohan are from slightly different races (Goku is 100% Saiyan, while Gohan is 50% Saiyan, 50% Earthling), there is a big age gap (father & son), base Goku is stronger than base Gohan, Goku is a fighter at heart, while Gohan is not, and they are not rivals. GokuXGohan would only overpower Vegetto with his Ultimate state IMO.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:59 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:IMO, Vegetto would be stronger than GokuXGohan because Goku matches better with Vegeta than with Gohan. Goku & Vegeta belong to the same race, they are around the same age, they are equals, they are both fighters at heart, they are both fighting geniuses, and they are both rivals. On the other hand, Goku & Gohan are from slightly different races (Goku is 100% Saiyan, while Gohan is 50% Saiyan, 50% Earthling), there is a big age gap (father & son), base Goku is stronger than base Gohan, Goku is a fighter at heart, while Gohan is not, and they are not rivals. GokuXGohan would only overpower Vegetto with his Ultimate state IMO.
I think Gokhan can only be base and Ultimate. I don't think he can go SSJ, well he can but it would be inferior to his ultimate form. While I agree that a Vegeta and Goku fusion is a better match up, Gohan is just super powerful. He exceeds Vegetto with Ultimate, I agree there, but in base, he doesn't come close.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:01 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:I think Gokhan can only be base and Ultimate.
Why? Both Goku & Gohan can still go Super Saiyan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:03 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:I think Gokhan can only be base and Ultimate.
Why? Both Goku & Gohan can still go Super Saiyan.
I just edited my last post. He can but it would be inferior to his ultimate form. He can't stack SSJ and ultimate.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:06 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:I just edited my last post. He can but it would be inferior to his ultimate form. He can't stack SSJ and ultimate.
Yeah, I agree. If he could go Super Saiyan on top of Ultimate, he would have done that against Boo.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:20 pm

Hmm I'm actually starting to second guess myself here. Maybe Vegetto should be stronger than Ultimate Gokhan. He would need SSJ2 but still....
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Undertaker » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:42 pm

I saw Cardle's M8 Broly vs SPC thread. Anyway FP PC would stomp M8 Broly effortlessly. M8 Broly is just stronger than SSJ Grade 3 Trunks. I am surprised people can't realise when M8 gets placed. :o

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:44 pm

Undertaker wrote:I saw Cardle's M8 Broly vs SPC thread. Anyway FP PC would stomp M8 Broly effortlessly. M8 Broly is just stronger than SSJ Grade 3 Trunks. I am surprised people can't realise when M8 gets placed. :o
I am surprised you still think everything you say is fact.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:46 pm

IKR :lol: . Goku showed us half his FPSSJ power so why can't he use it in Movie 8? Broly is much stronger than SSJG3 Trunks.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:01 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:IKR :lol: . Goku showed us half his FPSSJ power so why can't he use it in Movie 8? Broly is much stronger than SSJG3 Trunks.
Let's not start this again please. It's already taken over every other thread that he gets involved in. So......
GT Pan vs Android 16. We know she's stronger than Dr. Gero, but how much stronger?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:04 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:IKR :lol: . Goku showed us half his FPSSJ power so why can't he use it in Movie 8? Broly is much stronger than SSJG3 Trunks.
Let's not start this again please. It's already taken over every other thread that he gets involved in. So......
GT Pan vs Android 16. We know she's stronger than Dr. Gero, but how much stronger?
I really don't know. But if she's like Majin Vegeta level I wouldn't find it surprising... isn't even Freeza ultra haxxed in GT?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:05 pm

Hmm I haven't yet completed my GT power levels but I wanna say she is around Semi-Perfect Cell or higher so Pan takes this.
RandomGuy96 wrote:I really don't know. But if she's like Majin Vegeta level I wouldn't find it surprising... isn't even Freeza ultra haxxed in GT?
Freeza's stronger but not haxxed.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:38 pm

16 because everyone knows only Goku can accomplish things in GT.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Vertical » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:04 am

dbzfan7 wrote:16 because everyone knows only Goku can accomplish things in GT.
Of course.... it is after all Dragon Ball: Goku Time. :D
TheMightyOzaru wrote:I have Ultimate Gokhan hitting about 46,200,000,000,000 upon fusing with Goku and that's as strong as he can get. I don't think he can go SSJ.
Based on this quote; Gohkan should be able to transform into a Super Saiyan.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”


Elder Kaioshin understood the Potara, and also understood the ceremony he performed on Gohan. He would have said something if transforming was an impossibility or of no benefit.

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