The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:03 pm

hleV wrote:If you get worked up so much over people pointing out that BOG is bad, then perhaps YOU shouldn't discuss BOG.

I feel like I said everything that needed to be said: there's no reliable implication/proof that Vegetto is inferior to SSG/Beerus/Whis, therefore one doesn't have to believe he definitely is. Your interpretations of evidence to the contrary are far from convincing.
How am I getting "worked up"? I'm not the one throwing out words like bullshit, nonsense, etc etc. Maybe it's far from convincing because of that bias that's been previously stated due to you just straight up hating BoG.

And I'm saying that because if all you bring to any BoG related discussions are "it's bullshit", "because BoG is BoG", "can't explain BoG it's bullshit", I'm not sure why you join in on the conversations since you're not really bringing anything to the table.

The reliable implication is no one brought up Vegetto once. Even when they lost with SSG and were about to die. Vegeta and Goku aren't stupid/selfish enough to not "permanently fuse" (which it wouldn't be, since Buu) and get everyone else killed. You can argue out of universe all you want, but in an In-Universe Discussions sub-forum that doesn't cut it.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by hleV » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:41 pm

Draken wrote: How am I getting "worked up"? I'm not the one throwing out words like bullshit, nonsense, etc etc. Maybe it's far from convincing because of that bias that's been previously stated due to you just straight up hating BoG.
Well, I said that there's no explaining BOG's bullshit and you came to a conclusion that I am biased and "hate it with such a burning passion". I said that I dislike BOG for its inconsistencies with DB, and you again repeated your story of me being biased and straight up hating BOG. Surely you're worked up, as a normal calm person would hardly come to such a conclusion. So, again, if you can't stand people pointing out that BOG is bad, perhaps don't get involved?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:43 pm

hleV wrote:
Draken wrote: How am I getting "worked up"? I'm not the one throwing out words like bullshit, nonsense, etc etc. Maybe it's far from convincing because of that bias that's been previously stated due to you just straight up hating BoG.
Well, I said that there's no explaining BOG's bullshit and you came to a conclusion that I am biased and "hate it with such a burning passion". I said that I dislike BOG for its inconsistencies with DB, and you again repeated your story of me being biased and straight up hating BOG. Surely you're worked up, as a normal calm person would hardly come to such a conclusion. So, again, if you can't stand people pointing out that BOG is bad, perhaps don't get involved?
So are you now insinuating that I'm not a normal person? Throwing out a lot of subjective opinions out here. You do hate BoG, you've stated it yourself. Where am I wrong in this assumption that you hate BoG? If you hate something and then join in a discussion on it, it's hard to not show bias.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by hleV » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:51 pm

I don't hate it.

Anyway, how many times do I have to repeat that Potara fusion not being mentioned doesn't automatically mean that it's inferior? I wouldn't even rule out Metamorian Fusion, even though it's not permanent. According to your interpretation which you cling to so much, fusion not being mentioned is a proof that it would've been useless. I say it's not, and not because BOG is shit, but because it simply isn't the only possibility. So, again, there's no reliable evidence to completely rule out Vegetto's superiority.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:14 pm

hleV wrote:I don't hate it.

Anyway, how many times do I have to repeat that Potara fusion not being mentioned doesn't automatically mean that it's inferior? I wouldn't even rule out Metamorian Fusion, even though it's not permanent. According to your interpretation which you cling to so much, fusion not being mentioned is a proof that it would've been useless. I say it's not, and not because BOG is shit, but because it simply isn't the only possibility. So, again, there's no reliable evidence to completely rule out Vegetto's superiority.
Then I must ask you, why do you think that they didn't mention fusion, from an in-universe standpoint? Again, Goku had just conceded defeat to Beers even with the Super Saiyan God powerup. Beers had stated he never goes back on his word and was preparing to blow up the Earth, which would kill off billions of innocent people and countless animals. Why would Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kaio, Kamesennin, EVERYONE not even think about mentioning a far more powerful fighter that could go and kick Beers' ass, thus saving the planet?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by hleV » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:22 pm

Draken wrote:Then I must ask you, why do you think that they didn't mention fusion, from an in-universe standpoint?
Vegeta wouldn't have fused with Goku.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Draken » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:34 pm

hleV wrote:
Draken wrote:Then I must ask you, why do you think that they didn't mention fusion, from an in-universe standpoint?
Vegeta wouldn't have fused with Goku.
He embarrassed himself completely and threw away his pride in order to appease Beers. There was also Gohan he could have fused with.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:09 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Saiga wrote:Doesn't Old Kaioshin basically say that Super Baby 1 or 2 is the strongest ki he has ever felt? That would mean he's definitely surpassed Vegetto.
I can't find that line in the GT Strength Checker.
Amazing information! Basically Super Baby 1, the one that gathers Gohan's (and the others) power, is most likely more powerful than Gohan-Boo.

Is there any Strenght Checker for the original series, movies or TV Specials?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:21 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Saiga wrote:Doesn't Old Kaioshin basically say that Super Baby 1 or 2 is the strongest ki he has ever felt? That would mean he's definitely surpassed Vegetto.
I can't find that line in the GT Strength Checker.
Amazing information! Basically Super Baby 1, the one that gathers Gohan's (and the others) power, is most likely more powerful than Gohan-Boo.

Is there any Strenght Checker for the original series, movies or TV Specials?
Huh, I've never seen that.

Hmmm... It would seem that Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, at least. That's cool. :P
Episode 7
Context: Pan's reply to the Village Elder questioning the possibility of Zunama being defeated
Pan: “It's okay! On our planet, Grandpa and Trunks are the first and second strongest people there are. And, although I hate to say it, I'm number three. Right?”
Trunks: “Well...you may be giving me too much credit by saying I'm second. After all, there's Gohan-san, and Dad, not to mention Piccolo-san...”
Do we have any idea how accurate this is?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:27 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Hmm... It would seem that Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, at least. That's cool. :P
Episode 7
Context: Pan's reply to the Village Elder questioning the possibility of Zunama being defeated
Pan: “It's okay! On our planet, Grandpa and Trunks are the first and second strongest people there are. And, although I hate to say it, I'm number three. Right?”
Trunks: “Well...you may be giving me too much credit by saying I'm second. After all, there's Gohan-san, and Dad, not to mention Piccolo-san...”
Do we have any idea how accurate this is?
In which way accurate?
In terms of Piccolo actually being stronger than the mentioned characters or the GT strength checker posting the actual statement?
If it's the former, then it's debatable, if it's the latter, then it's certainly an accurate citation(it's taken from the subtitles).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:30 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Hmm... It would seem that Piccolo is stronger than Goten and Trunks, at least. That's cool. :P
Episode 7
Context: Pan's reply to the Village Elder questioning the possibility of Zunama being defeated
Pan: “It's okay! On our planet, Grandpa and Trunks are the first and second strongest people there are. And, although I hate to say it, I'm number three. Right?”
Trunks: “Well...you may be giving me too much credit by saying I'm second. After all, there's Gohan-san, and Dad, not to mention Piccolo-san...”
Do we have any idea how accurate this is?
In which way accurate?
In terms of Piccolo actually being stronger than the mentioned characters or the GT strength checker posting the actual statement?
If it's the former, then it's debatable, if it's the latter, then it's certainly an accurate citation(it's taken from the subtitles).
I was referring to the Strength Checker in general. I just posted that particular quote because I thought it was interesting.
I don't really see how it's debatable though. Pan says that Trunks is second strongest, and Trunks replies, that he's not, since there's Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:52 pm

There is also this:
7. Piccolo

Episode 26
Time: around 19m40s
Context: After Piccolo warns Gohan with his Makankosappo
Gohan: "So you're the mightiest Namekian, Piccolo, huh? You might be a suitable opponent to test my current power out on."
Piccolo: "What!?"
[ ]
Baby: (to himself) "This is how strong the mightiest Namekian was, huh? No big deal. The only one I'm after on this planet is Vegeta. Come quickly, Vegeta!"
It suggests Piccolo's powerlevel is between SS Trunks' and SS Gohan's.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:56 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:There is also this:
7. Piccolo

Episode 26
Time: around 19m40s
Context: After Piccolo warns Gohan with his Makankosappo
Gohan: "So you're the mightiest Namekian, Piccolo, huh? You might be a suitable opponent to test my current power out on."
Piccolo: "What!?"
[ ]
Baby: (to himself) "This is how strong the mightiest Namekian was, huh? No big deal. The only one I'm after on this planet is Vegeta. Come quickly, Vegeta!"
It suggests Piccolo's powerlevel is between SS Trunks' and SS Gohan's.
Yeah, the chain seems to be Vegeta>Gohan>Piccolo>Trunks>=Goten, with Uub and Goku thrown in multiple times at random points.
There's also Piccolo taking over hell, which, by that point, includes Rildo and possibly Super 17.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:03 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: I was referring to the Strength Checker in general. I just posted that particular quote because I thought it was interesting.
Okay then.
I don't really see how it's debatable though. Pan says that Trunks is second strongest, and Trunks replies, that he's not, since there's Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo.
Well I don't know that much about GT, so I just said it was debateable, because it could have been revealed in a later episode for all i know.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:01 pm

Draken wrote:
hleV wrote:
Draken wrote:Then I must ask you, why do you think that they didn't mention fusion, from an in-universe standpoint?
Vegeta wouldn't have fused with Goku.
He embarrassed himself completely and threw away his pride in order to appease Beers. There was also Gohan he could have fused with.
And Vegeta even said that he wanted to go Super Saiyan God as well, and that he wanted Goku to help.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:35 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Know I'm opening a can of worms here but here goes.

SSJ4 Broly VS Omega Shenron

LSSJ4 Broly VS Omega Shenron
LSSj4 Broli would be around Mystic Gohan level at best. Normal SSj4 Goku would own LSSj4 Broli.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:22 am

What about Bardock (at the level he was on planet Kanassa) vs. The two past (illusion) Saiyans from the Kami training filler?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:25 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:What about Bardock (at the level he was on planet Kanassa) vs. The two past (illusion) Saiyans from the Kami training filler?
Those saiyans were stated to be half of the strength of the saiyans that were coming to Earth. So 2,000 and 9,000. Bardock gets stomped by the one that's at 9,000.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Godo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:18 am

Draken wrote:
hleV wrote:
Draken wrote:Then I must ask you, why do you think that they didn't mention fusion, from an in-universe standpoint?
Vegeta wouldn't have fused with Goku.
He embarrassed himself completely and threw away his pride in order to appease Beers. There was also Gohan he could have fused with.
I always assumed that they didn't try it or consider it because of that Beers wanted SSG, not a fusion.
The only reason he kept somewhat patient was because of that he waited for them to figure out how to achieve the SSG transformation.
I doubt he would even let them fuse.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:What about Bardock (at the level he was on planet Kanassa) vs. The two past (illusion) Saiyans from the Kami training filler?
Not knowing Bardock's strength before his near death powerup, I'd say that he'd defeat the weaker one easily, whilst struggling or losing to the stronger one.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:49 am

SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Vegeta VS Super Buu.
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