The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TobyS]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

I don’t think so. I personally see Ssj4 Goku at half of the power of Ssj GOD. While I feel ssj4 brings saiyans to their highest potential. That isn’t SsjGOD.

I could see Ssj4 Gogeta at or slightly above SsjGOD Goku from the BoG arc.

If Goku is half ssjgod Gogeta has to be more otherwise you are saying fusion is a X2 multiplier.

To scale we have that 1 guidebook statement that DBZ Vegetto =SS4 but we don't know if that's SS1 or 3 and that's and 8 times difference.

[sunsetshimmer]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

I don’t think so. I personally see Ssj4 Goku at half of the power of Ssj GOD. While I feel ssj4 brings saiyans to their highest potential. That isn’t SsjGOD.

I could see Ssj4 Gogeta at or slightly above SsjGOD Goku from the BoG arc.

If Goku is half ssjgod Gogeta has to be more otherwise you are saying fusion is a X2 multiplier.

To scale we have that 1 guidebook statement that DBZ Vegetto =SS4 but we don't know if that's SS1 or 3 and that's and 8 times difference.

It didn't say DBZ Vegetto = GT SS4 though. It said potara fusion + going SSJ gives about as much power as SSJ4 does.
Otherwise it would contradict actual anime, where Super Baby 1 was confirmed by Goku to have highest ki he ever felt. Baby alone knew that, saying he has obtained the greatest saiyan power after first transformation, since he had Vegeta's memories as well apparently. BoG kinda confirms that they know how strong their fusion was, as Goku stated that Vegetto (i assume he meant Z Vegetto) wouldn't be enough to stand against Beerus. Baby alone in adult form was said to be strongest thing in universe, not counting Goku SSJ4 and Majuub as it was before their existence in series, let alone Baby Vegeta. Majuub alone shouldn't have problems beating DBZ Vegetto. It's easy to assume Baby Oozaru became at least (most likely exactly) 10 times stronger after going Oozaru and since Goku SSJ4 at his full power was actually stronger, or lowball equal to him at the very least, not even SSJ3 Z Vegetto would beat him.

I personally think Baby Saga SSJ4 Goku would beat BoG SSJG pretty easily. It isn't easy task to compare those two series, both use completely different logic when it comes to power scaling so those comparisons will always be more subjective than if you compare any of them to DBZ for example, but i personally think even Super Baby 2 could beat BoG SSJG or at least give him a good fight rather than being dominated by him. I mean if we look at BoG alone, SSJG seemed very impressive, but if you look at the rest of Super, it wasn't. God ki didn't feel as impressive since RoF arc and many non-god ki character could easily beat them, including Frieza after 4 months who was actually stronger than SSB in RoF arc. No surprise that after BoG movie release people assumed SSJG is stronger than SSJ4 by a mile, since they did very good job showing how god ki apparently is superior to regular ki + GT wasn't that good at displaying how strong certain characters are, which is why some people still think characters like Vegeta or Gohan were weaker than in Z. But after seeing RoF and pretty much entire Super, god ki greatly lost its status, becoming more like a nice boost rather than becoming completely different league of power it supposed to be in BoG.

Answering your post in short:
GT SS1 Vegetto ~= GT SS4 Goku
DBZ SS3 Vegetto < GT SS4 Goku

I also remember many people saying over years that SSJ4 boost being comparable to potara+SSJ isn't impressive, but let's also not forget that SSJ Gogeta from DBS Broly was not weaker than SSJB Goku or Vegeta either.

[GatoF]

1. 3rd Grade Ssj Trunks (First Hyberbolic Time Chamber) vs Bio-Broly
2. 2nd grade Ssj Future Trunks (Cell Games) vs 2nd grade Ssj Vegeta (Cell Games)
3. Ssj2 Future Trunks (Black arc) vs Ssj3 Gotenks (BoG)
4. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Seven-Three with Piccolo abilities
5. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Dyspo

Trunks doesn't have his sword in the first and second battle

[ZombieVito]

1. 3rd Grade Ssj Trunks (First Hyberbolic Time Chamber) vs Bio-Broly
2. 2nd grade Ssj Future Trunks (Cell Games) vs 2nd grade Ssj Vegeta (Cell Games)
3. Ssj2 Future Trunks (Black arc) vs Ssj3 Gotenks (BoG)
4. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Seven-Three with Piccolo abilities
5. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Dyspo

Trunks doesn't have his sword in the first and second battle

Trunks loses without the use of water. I have this Trunks around SS Kid Trunks.
Vegeta since his more skillful.
Trunks powers down to base and one shots Gotenks.
Pass until Toei animates Moro.
Dyspo, he will wear Trunks down eventually thanks to his speed.

[Peach]

Merged Zamasu and Toppo vs. Broly and Hit

Zarbon and Dodoria vs. Nail

Vegeta and Nappa vs. Zarbon and Dodoria

Dabura vs. All Six Cell Jr's

Tien and Yamcha vs. Krillin and Chiaotzu - (Saiyan saga)

Beerus vs. Moro

Goku (Battle of Gods) vs. Dyspo

Hit vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

Golden Frieza vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

[ZombieVito]

Merged Zamasu and Toppo vs. Broly and Hit

Zarbon and Dodoria vs. Nail

Vegeta and Nappa vs. Zarbon and Dodoria

Dabura vs. All Six Cell Jr's

Tien and Yamcha vs. Krillin and Chiaotzu - (Saiyan saga)

Beerus vs. Moro

Goku (Battle of Gods) vs. Dyspo

Hit vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

Golden Frieza vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

It all depends on if Zamasu has immortality or not. If he does then he wins. If not then Broly alone clears. Hit is an ant on this fight.
Nail wins this with small difficulty.
Dabura is SS2 tier. He kills them all like Gohan did.
Team A wins. Chaoz is really a handicap lmao.
Beerus. Moro sucks.
Goku is stronger but can't really do anything against Dyspo's speed. He loses eventually.
Hit is weaker but Trunks wouldn't get pass his time abilities. Hit wins easily.

[Hellspawn28]

SSj3 GT Gogeta vs. Super Yi Xing Long

Would a SSj3 Gogeta in GT able to defeat Super Yi Xing Long or does he need SSj4 to win?

[Koitsukai]

1. 3rd Grade Ssj Trunks (First Hyberbolic Time Chamber) vs Bio-Broly
2. 2nd grade Ssj Future Trunks (Cell Games) vs 2nd grade Ssj Vegeta (Cell Games)
3. Ssj2 Future Trunks (Black arc) vs Ssj3 Gotenks (BoG)
4. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Seven-Three with Piccolo abilities
5. Ssj Rage Future Trunks vs Dyspo

Trunks doesn't have his sword in the first and second battle

1) I'm not sure if that Trunks is on par with Boo arc Kid Trunks. I'm going with Bio-Broly unless the fight takes place near a lake or sea.
2) I think Vegeta has the power edge, plus the experience.
3) Manga Trunks loses. Anime Trunks wins without much effort.
4) Trunks. OG-73 copied Piccolo's abilities before training with Gohan for the Moro invasion, he shouldn't provide much to 7-3.
5) Trunks, but only if he is fighting regular Dyspo and not the one Gohan and Freeza had to team up to take out.

Merged Zamasu and Toppo vs. Broly and Hit

Zarbon and Dodoria vs. Nail

Vegeta and Nappa vs. Zarbon and Dodoria

Dabura vs. All Six Cell Jr's

Tien and Yamcha vs. Krillin and Chiaotzu - (Saiyan saga)

Beerus vs. Moro

Goku (Battle of Gods) vs. Dyspo

Hit vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

Golden Frieza vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

1) The Zamasu team wins because he is immortal. If he is not, then Broly beats everyone, including his teammate Hit.
2) I think Nail deals with them fairly quickly, not even letting Zarbon transform.
3) The FAG and the lady erradicate the saiyans
4) Dabura eventually loses, but takes most of them with him.
5) Tenshinhan is the only one still standing after everyone is defeated.
6) Depends on what Moro. Beerus defeats every Moro iteration but Moro7-3. Then it gets messy, until they officially retcon Beerus' power, and that will happen, I'm going with Moro7-3.
7) ToP SSG Goku couldn't defeat Dyspo, his BoG version would definitely lose.
8 ) Trunks isn't smart enough to figure out Hit's hax.
9) Freeza finally gets his revenge

SSj3 GT Gogeta vs. Super Yi Xing Long

Would a SSj3 Gogeta in GT able to defeat Super Yi Xing Long or does he need SSj4 to win?

Based on SS4 = SS potara fusion, Z SS4 Goku would've been a great deal stronger than SS3 Goku. If that is true for Gogeta(Kaboom's fusion theory implies otherwise), then probably as a SS3 the fight would've been much closer but with the same outcome.
But SS4 Gogeta did use his most powerful attack and Omega was still standing, flying, laughing, not even on the floor, only losing the DBs... SS3 Gogeta shouldn't be able to do that. If SS4 Gogeta needed more than that to kill him, SS3 should fail.

[Grand Marshal 1]

SSj3 GT Gogeta vs. Super Yi Xing Long

Would a SSj3 Gogeta in GT able to defeat Super Yi Xing Long or does he need SSj4 to win?

I got mixed feelings on this.

First, Gogeta 4 was stated as dozens of times stronger than normal SS4s and able to finger flick Omega who's 10 times as strong as SS4. For me, SS4 is a 4,000x Base, or 10 times SS3. So logically Gogeta 3 should still be able to wreck Omega even if on this form. Buuuut then you got the statement from Daizenshuu which seems to imply Super Fusion = SS4. Taking that into consideration, SS3 being 8 time stronger than SS (I know GT can be argued to have different multipliers, but I never saw hard evidence implying normal multipliers can't work on the show), Gogeta would hardly reach Omega's power. Hell he would be at a disadvantage.

But even if this is the case, a Fusion couldn't logically have it's base form below/equal to SS2 (if Super Fusion = SS4 with my numbers). SO Gogeta should at the very least be SS3 tier (as we saw Vegito wasn't SS2 tier in the Buu saga), therefore SS2 Gogeta and Omega should be a tossup and SS3 should defeat mid-high diff.

I feel like the latter option is the best one. As in SS3 Gogeta would not yield enough power to one-shot the Dragon Balls out of Omega. But SS4 ended up being overkill. Same with Broly and Blue Gogeta in the new film. God Gogeta would probably lose, but the gap to Blue allowed him to not get attcked once.

[sunsetshimmer]

Omega who's 10 times as strong as SS4.

Where was it stated exactly? I only remember Omega saying he became 10 times stronger or more (let's assume it's 10) after swallowing all the dragon balls. And before that he was already much stronger than SSJ4 Goku before he ascended beyond his own limits.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Omega who's 10 times as strong as SS4.

Where was it stated exactly? I only remember Omega saying he became 10 times stronger or more (let's assume it's 10) after swallowing all the dragon balls. And before that he was already much stronger than SSJ4 Goku before he ascended beyond his own limits.

Yeah, mistyped that one. Still Syn Shenron was on par with Goku in SS4 who needed to go full power to even deal damage, to which Syn replied with becoming Omega and overwhelming even the full power Goku just used. Difference isn't big anyway, so it's still valid. Syn and SS4 are on pretty even grounds.

[sunsetshimmer]

Yeah, mistyped that one. Still Syn Shenron was on par with Goku in SS4 who needed to go full power to even deal damage, to which Syn replied with becoming Omega and overwhelming even the full power Goku just used. Difference isn't big anyway, so it's still valid. Syn and SS4 are on pretty even grounds.

Syn basically took Kamehameha X10 at his face and was completely unimpressed by it.
I'd say the difference between Syn and SSJ4 Goku was even bigger than between Omega and SFPS4 Goku.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Yeah, mistyped that one. Still Syn Shenron was on par with Goku in SS4 who needed to go full power to even deal damage, to which Syn replied with becoming Omega and overwhelming even the full power Goku just used. Difference isn't big anyway, so it's still valid. Syn and SS4 are on pretty even grounds.

Syn basically took Kamehameha X10 at his face and was completely unimpressed by it.
I'd say the difference between Syn and SSJ4 Goku was even bigger than between Omega and SFPS4 Goku.

10× Kamehameha is a can of worms imo. Like yes, times 10, but times 10 what? If it's SS4 (which it implies it is) then why use it in this form? Does it actually amplify his power tenfold? Pretty sure he used normal kamehameha's as well that left the same impact no?

Screw it I overthink this. Syn tanking the attack doesn't rly matter anyway, cause Omega tanked Gogeta and he was getting humiliated. Bleh GT feats.... Brrrr... Top tier trash. Luud AP>>Nappa>Omega.

Joking ofc. Back to the main point SS3 Gogeta would not be able to finish off Omega.

[Locutus]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

This depends how you look at certain feats and scaling.

Everyone always hypes up Goku and Beerus nearly destroying the universe but that kind of power was already shown by Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) with Vice shout and Super Vegito not only stopped it but told Super Buu to hit him with that same amount of energy and Buu continued to power up.

Regardless of any personal feelings the anime says Kid Buu is the strongest. Not only do they say that, but he powers up to insane heights and so does Goku. Then you have GT which is a sequel to the Z anime and makes everyone so much stronger considering Uub is already as strong as Kid Buu and GT Gokus normal form is on par with him.

I also feel people downplay Omega, the guy was destroying the Universe just by releasing his energies and not doing anything, we don't get anything similar till Jiren shakes the world of Void.

Super is a sequel to only the manga, ergo the dbz anime feats and scaling wouldn't be absorbed by it.

GT definitely is above the first 3 major arcs, once Zamasu fuses with a timeline is when Super most likely beats GT, depends how strong you have Zamasu at that point.

[TobyS]

Merged Zamasu and Toppo vs. Broly and Hit

Zarbon and Dodoria vs. Nail

Vegeta and Nappa vs. Zarbon and Dodoria

Dabura vs. All Six Cell Jr's

Tien and Yamcha vs. Krillin and Chiaotzu - (Saiyan saga)

Beerus vs. Moro

Goku (Battle of Gods) vs. Dyspo

Hit vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

Golden Frieza vs. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks

Manga hit and his improvements I believe can beat Toppo especially with killing moves.
Zamasu would eventually beat broly due to immortality only.
Nail easily. They dont have the moves or skill to pull of a Piccolo Goku vs raditz scenario.

Vegeta got beat by zarbon alone and Dodoria was far stronger then Nappa.

Dabura was about equal to Cell and I cant see Cell being bought down by his own creations. Especially comparing how he was versus gohan vs the Juniors.

In the saiyan Saga Ten was still stronger then Kuririn imo. Chaozu could perhaps hold Yamcha indefinitely with the TK but then Ten's gonne be free to fight soon and that wont help him.

Beerus.

Hitto, Rage wasn't as strong as Blue and Hit leveled up in both mediums by the ToP.

Freeza was on par with blue with or w/o stamina problems.
Perhaps Rage can hold out till Freeza is weaker if its RoF freeza.

But Rage is stupid AND non canon imo.

[GatoF]

1. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs Bardock (broly movie)
2. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs King Vegeta

If Bardock had super saiyan what is the strongest character he could defeat in the Freeza saga?

[PurestEvil]

1. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs Bardock (broly movie)
2. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs King Vegeta

1. I am sure Goku would actually beat bardock. Goku was pretty much as powerful as a mid class saiyan, and bardock was a low class saiyan. Not knowledgable about the power levels, though, this is my assumption.
2. King Vegeta for sure, he was the most powerful saiyan of at that point.

If Bardock had super saiyan what is the strongest character he could defeat in the Freeza saga?

I would like to say Zarbon, possibly even Recoome.

[Koitsukai]

1. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs Bardock (broly movie)
2. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs King Vegeta

If Bardock had super saiyan what is the strongest character he could defeat in the Freeza saga?

1- Goku was revived with a PL or like 8,000 or so. Original Bardock was around 10,000 I think, and retconned Bardock is much below that. Goku wins.
2- Probably the King, we don't know when his son surpassed him. It could go either way, Goku's fighting skills might give him the win.

3- Reecoome, Burta, Jeece.

[Grimlock]

1. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs Bardock (broly movie)

We don't know Bardock's power level in Dragon Ball Minus/Dragon Ball Super Broly. It could still be ten thousand or it couldn't. If it's not that much, Goku wins. Otherwise Bardock wins.

2. Saiyan Saga Goku (can't use Kaioken) vs King Vegeta

We don't know King Vegeta's power level in Dragon Ball Minus/Dragon Ball Super Broly as well as Toei's King Vegeta.

If Bardock had super saiyan what is the strongest character he could defeat in the Freeza saga?

Which Bardock?

If it's TV Special Bardock - He could defeat everyone except for Freeza.

If it's OVA's Bardock - He could defeat Freeza. Which form of Freeza we don't know.

If it's Dragon Ball Minus'/Dragon Ball Super Broly's Bardock - No idea.

If it's Dragon Ball Online's Bardock - He could defeat everyone.

[Lionel]

What if the matches in the 21st DB tournament were switched around and most characters battled against different opponents?

1. Goku vs Bacterian
2. Krillin vs Nam
3. Yamcha vs Giran
4. Jackie Chun vs Ran Fan

Since the touranments afterwards became progressively streamlined from a mechanics standpoint it's difficult to find interesting match ups that wouldn't end up with one character predictably dominating the other. Here's a few that might work though...

22nd Tournament
1. Goku vs Chaozu
2. Krillin vs Yamcha
3. Pamput vs Man-Wolf

23rd Tournament
1. Krillin vs Tao Pai Pai
2. Tenshinhan vs Hero (trying to keep in mind the Taiyoken and Kikoho here)
3. Yamcha vs Chichi