The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Beyond]

Gohan doesn't seem to be a very skilled fighter. Let's test it. How far do you think he gets with power equalized? He is refreshed after every fight.
1. Goten
2. Kid trunks
3. Yamcha
4. Mirai trunks
5. Krillin
6. Tien
7. Piccolo
8. Vegeta
9. Goku

[Krillin1994]

Gohan doesn't seem to be a very skilled fighter. Let's test it. How far do you think he gets with power equalized? He is refreshed after every fight.
1. Goten
2. Kid trunks
3. Yamcha
4. Mirai trunks
5. Krillin
6. Tien
7. Piccolo
8. Vegeta
9. Goku

With Equal power I'd say the only ones he definitely defeats is Future trunks and Kid Trunks.

In the android saga trunks was shown to be quite a novice in battle. Though maybe his technique has increased after encountering Dabura. But generally from what we've seen of future trunks is that he only does well when he's stronger than an opponent.

Kid trunks has the arrogance and cockiness of Vegeta without the combat knowledge.

Yamcha and the Goten are maybes.

I'd say Goten is a maybe because although he is young and relatively inexperienced he gave Trunks a good run for his money despite being inferior in strength. Goten seems to be hard to predict in battle and I reckon he could catch Gohan off guard.

Yamcha has been shown to have sloppy technique before during the martial arts tournaments, But he always had an impressive arsenal of moves and has managed to surprise stronger rivals before (Tien and Kami). After receiving training from Kami I'd say that he now doesn't make unessecary movements and after the saibaman he is definitely less cocky.

Yamcha post Saibaman and probably wins post Kami training.


All the other characters are far too skilled for Gohan to keep up with.

[apex_pretador]

- SSJ Son Gohan (Cell Games) vs. Paikuhan (no Burning Shoot).
- SSJ Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Perfect Cell.

- Who is the strongest character Ledgic could beat in the Manga?
- Who is the strongest character Tagoma (Super) could beat in the Manga?
- Who is the strongest character Ginyu-Tagoma could beat in the Manga?

- Gohan dies

- Goku wins if cell is suppressed. If cell uses full ower from the very start, it is a repeat of cell games.

-
- Weakened SS2 adult gohan
- Same as above

SSJ2 Future Trunks (Black Goku Arc) gauntlet:

1. Full Power Perfect Cell
2. Super Perfect Cell
3. SSJ2 Kid Gohan (raging)
4. Majin Vegeta
5. SSJ2 Goku (BoG)
6. Fat Buu
7. SSJ3 Goku (Buu)
8.SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu)
9. Mystic Gohan
10. Buuhan
11. Super Vegito and above

I have him on the level of SSJ2 Goku from BoG (due to him being a better warrior now skill-wise and having that half-Saiyan genetics for improvement). Goku still wins due to a skill advantage.

Hits a brick wall on buuhan,

Gohan doesn't seem to be a very skilled fighter. Let's test it. How far do you think he gets with power equalized? He is refreshed after every fight.
1. Goten
2. Kid trunks
3. Yamcha
4. Mirai trunks
5. Krillin
6. Tien
7. Piccolo
8. Vegeta
9. Goku

- Beats goten with a lot of trouble.

- Beats kid trunks rather easily.

- Loses here.

- Beats after a prolonged battle.

- Gets stomped.

- Can go either way in a long battle in a tournament fight, dies in a death-match.

- Piccolo

- Vegeta

- Goku

[DanielSSJ]

- SSJ Son Gohan (Cell Games) vs. Paikuhan (no Burning Shoot).
- SSJ Son Goku (Boo arc) vs. Perfect Cell.

- Who is the strongest character Ledgic could beat in the Manga?
- Who is the strongest character Tagoma (Super) could beat in the Manga?
- Who is the strongest character Ginyu-Tagoma could beat in the Manga?

- Normal Logic: Ledgic should juts be a much stronger than average alien who should be around Freeza's strength, if I was being exceptionally generous. GT Logic: The man who forced Lord Goku The All Mighty to go Super Saiyan would beat anybody from the manga except maybe Super Vegetto.
- I''d say he could beat Gohan and maybe Goku and Vegeta in their basic Super Saiyan forms.
- Same as above, but with Super Saiyan 2.

SSJ2 Future Trunks (Black Goku Arc) gauntlet:

1. Full Power Perfect Cell
2. Super Perfect Cell
3. SSJ2 Kid Gohan (raging)
4. Majin Vegeta
5. SSJ2 Goku (BoG)
6. Fat Buu
7. SSJ3 Goku (Buu)
8. SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu)
9. Mystic Gohan
10. Buuhan
11. Super Vegito and above

I have him on the level of SSJ2 Goku from BoG (due to him being a better warrior now skill-wise and having that half-Saiyan genetics for improvement). Goku still wins due to a skill advantage.

I'm going with the idea Toei doesn't actually have a properly thought out power scale in regards to Goku's and Vegeta's non-God forms and say that Trunks realistically shouldn't be able to go any further than Fat Boo, and even that is being generous.

Gohan doesn't seem to be a very skilled fighter. Let's test it. How far do you think he gets with power equalized? He is refreshed after every fight.
1. Goten
2. Kid trunks
3. Yamcha
4. Mirai trunks
5. Krillin
6. Tien
7. Piccolo
8. Vegeta
9. Goku

- As rusty as Gohan is, he should be able to trounce the completely inexperienced twerps without too much trouble.

- Yamcha and Kuririn would be out-of-practice from not fighting for seven years just like Gohan, and even at equal power levels, Gohan, as a Saiyan, is just built tougher than a human.

- Future Trunks, while somewhat inexperienced, would definitely be skilled enough to give Gohan a run for his money, especially if he has his sword.

- Tenshinhan is way too skilled and has way too many tricks up his sleeve for Gohan to be able to handle him without a sizable power advantage.

- Goku, Vegeta, or Piccolo would all need to be sick as a dog and/or blind drunk for Gohan to have a hope of beating them.

[In Brightest Day]

Gohan doesn't seem to be a very skilled fighter. Let's test it. How far do you think he gets with power equalized? He is refreshed after every fight.
1. Goten
2. Kid trunks
3. Yamcha
4. Mirai trunks
5. Krillin
6. Tien
7. Piccolo
8. Vegeta
9. Goku

One cold hard fact we have learnt about Son Gohan throughout the series is this: At his core, Gohan is just not a fighter.

Inspite of his impressive retinue of mentors (namely Son Goku and Piccolo), he often finds a way to fuck up spectacularly despite generally having a massive power advantage over whoever he is fighting. He is skilled in hand-to-hand but has no idea what to do with all of his ability and potential. Gohan is a pretty great example of the phrase "power level isn't everything."


So, keeping that mind, their are basically three tiers he is going up against here...

1. Trunks and Son Goten.

Trunks and Goten don't have the experience or training Gohan has. This is pretty much a wash for Gohan.

2. Future Trunks.

This would be a pretty interesting fight, kind of like a lower level Goku vs. Vegeta. The more technically skilled fighter against the hardened brawler who can take a lot of damage. The main difference is that unlike their dads, neither of these two are great in the strategy department.

Ultimately, I would give it to Trunks. He's less likely to fuck around and more willing to finish it quickly and efficiently.

3. Son Goku, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha and Vegeta.

All of these guys have years of experience on Gohan and are straight up better fighters. They know what he is capable of. Somehow, I don't see any of these guys struggling against Dabra the way Gohan did.

[Kamiccolo9]

I seem to recall Goku considering Gohan to be an exceptionally skilled fighter in the Cell Arc, to the point where his whole purpose for fighting Cell was so that Gohan would be able to analyze how Cell fought, and therefore develop his own strategy for fighting him.

Gohan strikes me more as the "overweight coach who still knows full well how to play the game" type, rather than the "is totally worthless, and just flails around" type. Gohan's rusty; he's not incompetent.

[Krillin1994]

I assumed Goku fought cell first because Gohan would have been stomped if he started/ just given up so Goku could fight.

[Kamiccolo9]

I assumed Goku fought cell first because Gohan would have been stomped if he started/ just given up so Goku could fight.

No, Goku literally says that he fought first so that Gohan could see how Cell fought.

[In Brightest Day]

I seem to recall Goku considering Gohan to be an exceptionally skilled fighter in the Cell Arc, to the point where his whole purpose for fighting Cell was so that Gohan would be able to analyze how Cell fought, and therefore develop his own strategy for fighting him.

Gohan strikes me more as the "overweight coach who still knows full well how to play the game" type, rather than the "is totally worthless, and just flails around" type. Gohan's rusty; he's not incompetent.

I wouldn't say Gohan is incompetent, but he does tend to make mistakes that really come back to bite him in the ass. That's inexperience. By the time of the Boo arc, you can add rustiness on top of that.

[Kamiccolo9]

I seem to recall Goku considering Gohan to be an exceptionally skilled fighter in the Cell Arc, to the point where his whole purpose for fighting Cell was so that Gohan would be able to analyze how Cell fought, and therefore develop his own strategy for fighting him.

Gohan strikes me more as the "overweight coach who still knows full well how to play the game" type, rather than the "is totally worthless, and just flails around" type. Gohan's rusty; he's not incompetent.

I wouldn't say Gohan is incompetent, but he does tend to make mistakes that really come back to bite him in the ass. That's inexperience. By the time of the Boo arc, you can add rustiness on top of that.

Yeah, but his mistakes don't really have anything to do with technical skill as a fighter. He's just kinda an idiot, like his dad, only in different ways.

[Krillin1994]

I assumed Goku fought cell first because Gohan would have been stomped if he started/ just given up so Goku could fight.

No, Goku literally says that he fought first so that Gohan could see how Cell fought.

yeah so Gohan didn't have the fighting ability to be able to work out somebodies style whilst fighting them. So he would have been stomped if he didn't watch Goku fight first.

[Kamiccolo9]

I assumed Goku fought cell first because Gohan would have been stomped if he started/ just given up so Goku could fight.

No, Goku literally says that he fought first so that Gohan could see how Cell fought.

yeah so Gohan didn't have the fighting ability to be able to work out somebodies style whilst fighting them. So he would have been stomped if he didn't watch Goku fight first.

....I don't think you understand how learning by example works.

[Krillin1994]

Gohan had to witness Cell's movements in a fight prior to him fighting,

He would have done worse if Goku hadn't foughtcell first.

Gohan simply doesn't have the means to react to an opponent in a fight.

[In Brightest Day]

I seem to recall Goku considering Gohan to be an exceptionally skilled fighter in the Cell Arc, to the point where his whole purpose for fighting Cell was so that Gohan would be able to analyze how Cell fought, and therefore develop his own strategy for fighting him.

Gohan strikes me more as the "overweight coach who still knows full well how to play the game" type, rather than the "is totally worthless, and just flails around" type. Gohan's rusty; he's not incompetent.

I wouldn't say Gohan is incompetent, but he does tend to make mistakes that really come back to bite him in the ass. That's inexperience. By the time of the Boo arc, you can add rustiness on top of that.

Yeah, but his mistakes don't really have anything to do with technical skill as a fighter. He's just kinda an idiot, like his dad, only in different ways.

I think it's just that Gohan isn't really a fighter, as I was saying in my post earlier. He's been trained well and probably gets some enjoyment out of it, but I think he'd just rather be doing something else with his time (which we see any time there is a period of peace).

Because of that, his fighting instincts are terrible and he makes mistakes in dire situations.

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan had to witness Cell's movements in a fight prior to him fighting,

He would have done worse if Goku hadn't foughtcell first.

Gohan simply doesn't have the means to react to an opponent in a fight.

Okay, prove it. Go against what Goku says. By all means, show us you're right.

[In Brightest Day]

Gohan really didn't do that very well against Cell. Not that I blame a 12 year old kid for lacking confidence in a situation like that. With a bit of coaching, Goku was able help him gain some confidence throughout the fight.

Doesn't change the fact that everyone would have died if it weren't for Cell being an arrogant prick.

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan really didn't do that very well against Cell. Not that I blame a 12 year old kid for lacking confidence in a situation like that. With a bit of coaching, Goku was able help him gain some confidence throughout the fight.

Doesn't change the fact that everyone would have died if it weren't for Cell being an arrogant prick.

How so? Gohan did just fine, until Cell started torturing his friends, and was holding back the whole time due to not wanting to fight. He shrugged off everything Cell did to him.

All of Gohan's problems in the fight were in his head; they had nothing to do with his fighting skills.

Edit, I missed your previous post.

I'm referring purely to his technical skills, not his fighting instinct or anything. There is nothing wrong with his technique, it's his mentality that is the problem.

[Krillin1994]

Can you quote Goku for exactly what he says?

Because all I can find at the moment is Goku telling Cell that Gohan's raw strength surpasses his and he tell Gohan he wasn't holding back but Gohan just assumed he was.

All evidence in the Cell saga seems to put emphasis on Gohan being a strong fighter not a skilled one.

[Kamiccolo9]

Can you quote Goku for exactly what he says?

Because all I can find at the moment is Goku telling Cell that Gohan's raw strength surpasses his and he tell Gohan he wasn't holding back but Gohan just assumed he was.

All evidence in the Cell saga seems to put emphasis on Gohan being a strong fighter not a skilled one.

Goku flat out says that he fought Cell first so that Gohan would be able to analyze the fight.

I don't think you realize how big of a deal that is. That isn't something some novice could do.

[Krillin1994]

But its undeniable that he required some time to be able to analyse, whereas other character could do this analysis in a fight.

So Gohan is still less skilled as he couldn't analyse on the fly.

Gohan wasn't a skilled fighter in the cell arc he assumed the Bulked up Super Saiyan forms were a good idea like trunks did.