The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:11 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:07 pm Damaged Android 16 vs Super Saiyan Goku pre ROSAT.

SS Goku, SS Trunks, Kamicollo (all pre ROSAT) vs strongest 1st form Cell. (SS Vegeta joins later)
Damaged Android 16 seemed to barely be able to move around unassisted. He was basically down for the count imo. I'd give it to Goku unless 16 has some kind of mega destructive hail mary options. This would have been interesting to see.

Cell handled 17 and Piccolo like they were nothing, and tanked Piccolo going all out with a ki blast. I don't think they stand a chance, and Trunks especially is a non factor considering how he was knocked out in only 2 blows vs the Androids previously. And then Cell has his regeneration properties on top of that.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:44 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:11 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:07 pm Damaged Android 16 vs Super Saiyan Goku pre ROSAT.

SS Goku, SS Trunks, Kamicollo (all pre ROSAT) vs strongest 1st form Cell. (SS Vegeta joins later)
Damaged Android 16 seemed to barely be able to move around unassisted. He was basically down for the count imo. I'd give it to Goku unless 16 has some kind of mega destructive hail mary options. This would have been interesting to see.

Cell handled 17 and Piccolo like they were nothing, and tanked Piccolo going all out with a ki blast. I don't think they stand a chance, and Trunks especially is a non factor considering how he was knocked out in only 2 blows vs the Androids previously. And then Cell has his regeneration properties on top of that.
Well, 16 does have his bomb. Maybe he uses it to kill this Goku. I actually have damaged 16 and SS Goku Pre RoSaT around the same level lol.

Piccolo was tired though. Maybe Cell can't tank a Light Grenade from a full power Piccolo. I don't see this Cell stronger than Super Android 13 so the battle might go similar to that and the Z team pulls a win.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Peach » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:32 pm

Is Cooler stronger than King Cold and Mecha Frieza?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:58 pm

Peach wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:32 pm Is Cooler stronger than King Cold and Mecha Frieza?
Ooh this is an interesting one. King Cold, yes I think. Frieza though is trickier to me - Cooler couldn’t handle base post-Namek Goku without his 5th form. And then his 5th form stood no chance against Super Saiyan Goku. Meanwhile, Frieza, on Namek, put up something of a fight (right? I haven’t actually seen the namek saga in full) against Super Saiyan Goku.

So it depends on: how much stronger Goku is, and if Frieza got any stronger in his mecha form or not.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:01 pm

Continuing my trend of comparing timelines’ Gokus - SDBH anime Goku (all the way up to the latest episode) vs DBS Manga Goku (all the way up to the latest chapter)?

Their post-ToP powers have evolved in different ways, and each of them have exhibited different feats. Can Manga Goku’s instinct-driven fighting skills match up against SDBH Goku’s huge ki levels and ability to control a ridiculous amount of it at a moments notice?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:26 pm

jamiljamtheman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:01 pm Continuing my trend of comparing timelines’ Gokus - SDBH anime Goku (all the way up to the latest episode) vs DBS Manga Goku (all the way up to the latest chapter)?

Their post-ToP powers have evolved in different ways, and each of them have exhibited different feats. Can Manga Goku’s instinct-driven fighting skills match up against SDBH Goku’s huge ki levels and ability to control a ridiculous amount of it at a moments notice?
They really aren't that different. Anime Goku was using a genki dama esque technique with blue perfect ki control with these unique beams of universal energy flying around. That's not normal.

Granola Goku has greater mastery of UI and trained with Merus, Manga Goku wins.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jamiljamtheman » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:38 am

TobyS wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:26 pm
jamiljamtheman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:01 pm Continuing my trend of comparing timelines’ Gokus - SDBH anime Goku (all the way up to the latest episode) vs DBS Manga Goku (all the way up to the latest chapter)?

Their post-ToP powers have evolved in different ways, and each of them have exhibited different feats. Can Manga Goku’s instinct-driven fighting skills match up against SDBH Goku’s huge ki levels and ability to control a ridiculous amount of it at a moments notice?
They really aren't that different. Anime Goku was using a genki dama esque technique with blue perfect ki control with these unique beams of universal energy flying around. That's not normal.

Granola Goku has greater mastery of UI and trained with Merus, Manga Goku wins.
I do agree with your last sentence. But, as I was thinking about this, I do think they are a little different (at least enough to warrant a battle comparison). In particular, their experiences after the ToP were handled differently and (to me) shapes somewhat how each would fight.

Probably due to the nature of the show, above all else, SDBH Goku’s battles are usually won by blatant overpowering of his opponent or executing some flashy new move. This is most exemplified by the fact that he and Vegeta appear to rely much more on fusion—which is ultimately a power boost. I’m sure Gogeta is a skilled fighter, but he’s too strong to give his opponents the chance to find out.

In the Moro and Granolah arcs of the manga, Goku is taught mastery of UI by Merus and later Whis, and in the cases of both major opponents he is unable to simply overpower them. He learns explicitly not to use UI as a transformation but as a technique, most exhibited by his battle with Granolah.

All this to say is that I think that each Goku at this point would approach a battle from slightly different angles. I do think that Manga Goku’s focus on skill and energy conservation would give him the upper hand.

Extra: SDBH goku’s absorption of Fu’s universe energy is, to me, a feat of excellent raw ki control. The fact that he could weaponize it like that. I suppose that kind of goes in line with anime goku’s use of kaio Ken. But I think manga Goku is ultimately just as capable of such feats, since he’s not that different as you said. He just didn’t do them in the manga.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:23 pm

Peach wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:32 pm Is Cooler stronger than King Cold and Mecha Frieza?
I'd think so. Cooler is definitely stronger than King Cold, who is weaker than Organic Freeza. Now Cooler vs Cyborg Freeza is more debatable. I'd give it to Cooler since Cyborg Freeza doesn't have to be considerably stronger than his organic self. He was already quite an even match to Goku before his cybernetic enhancements, after all.
jamiljamtheman wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:58 pm So it depends on: how much stronger Goku is, and if Frieza got any stronger in his mecha form or not.
Freeza is definitely stronger in his mecha form, he says as much on the way to Earth and even thinks he could beat Goku without Cold's help.

Roshi says Goku has gotten considerably stronge since returning to Namek, and it's vaguely suggested he got a Zenkai when he ate that senzu in the movie. I'd say he's considerably stronger, but I'm not sure about any exact figures.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 pm

New match:

- SSJ3 Vegetto (Boo arc) vs. Final Form Freeza (RoF)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:32 pm

Noah wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 pm New match:

- SSJ3 Vegetto (Boo arc) vs. Final Form Freeza (RoF)
Freeza in his first form was above, or at least equal to a rusty SS Gohan, who should be around his Cell Games self, or pre-Buu arc self, the weakest SS Gohan's ever had. If the gap between his 1st and final form remains the same, then he'd be somewhere around base and SS Vegito. Still far from SS3 Vegito.


---

1st form Cell vs Kamiccolo, Android 17 and Android 18, who joins the fight instead of not running away and just watch the fight. Can these 3 beat Cell?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Peach » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:23 pm

Noah wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 pm New match:

- SSJ3 Vegetto (Boo arc) vs. Final Form Freeza (RoF)
Frieza, with high difficulty without Golden.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:08 pm

Fu, with all his resources and henchmen at his disposal, versus Moro with all his resources and henchmen/army at his disposal (including 73 and etc)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:40 pm

Peach wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:29 pm Master Roshi (Tournament of Power) vs. Semi Perfect Cell

Tien's Tri-Beam (Cell saga) vs. Frieza (Namek)

Gohan (after Z Sword training) vs. SSJ2 Gottenks

Super Perfect Cell vs. 18 and Krillin (Tournament of Power)

Bardock & His Squad (as Great Apes) vs. Dodoria
Master Roshi (Tournament of Power) vs. Semi Perfect Cell : If it's the anime then you could make a good argument for the Turtle Hermit taking the fight easily. If it's the manga then absent Ultra Instinct there's nothing concrete to adequately determine if he would win. Considering #18's power being described as superior to the strongest human, Krillin, I'm inclined to say no here.

Tien's Tri-Beam (Cell saga) vs. Frieza (Namek): It didn't inflict any lasting damage but Tenshinhan's Kikoho was able to knock the air out of Cell continuously and even leave some superficial marks on his body. Freeza's incredible physical resilience would have to allow him to stay in the fight long enough for exhaustion to take its course. I see Tenshinhan managing to severely damage the tyrant here.

Gohan (after Z Sword training) vs. SSJ2 Gottenks: At the time of the Buu arc? I believe Gohan had improved enough to find himself in some peculiar limbo between SSJ2 and SSJ3 standards. A fight between him and Grey Buu would have been intense and entertaining if you ask me. As for Gotenks? I consider his base state to be superior to Fat Buu. It should go without saying that SSJ2 would thrash this Gohan.

Super Perfect Cell vs. 18 and Krillin (Tournament of Power): A similar conundrum like with the Roshi match up. If it's the manga rendition then it's difficult to find a good competition here. Should it be the anime, though, I see the wedded pair having a solid chance. Krillin was able to challenge base Goku to a match and handle himself capably. Goku at this time has grown so much during his training that his untransformed state could contest a souped up Good Buu.

Bardock & His Squad (as Great Apes) vs. Dodoria They would need to coordinate attacks, rely on their greater mass, and the ki attacks to have a chance. Dodoria is noticeably superior to all of them in terms of speed. If they don't weaken him through teamwork and areal ki attacks then they'll quickly lose.
Koitsukai wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:07 pm Damaged Android 16 vs Super Saiyan Goku pre ROSAT.

SS Goku, SS Trunks, Kamicollo (all pre ROSAT) vs strongest 1st form Cell. (SS Vegeta joins later)
Damaged Android 16 vs Super Saiyan Goku pre ROSAT. Hard to say. #16 was needing aid from #18 and Krillin just to move about though the android still seemed capable enough to try to blindside Cell with an attack. Although we don't know how the performance of a mechanical being with infinite energy who suffered severe structural damage would wane. They're not like organic finite beings. All I can say for certain is that Goku would need to unleash everything he has to have a chance.

Edit: I overlooked #18's remark about her own survival against Cell's systematic destruction of the island chain they were hiding amongst versus #16's. If that's to be taken as meaning that the android would in all likelihood die in the attack then we could infer that this damaged iteration of #16 has been weakened to the point of physical inferiority to #18. I think Goku could win this. The android does have infinite energy but he's architecturally damaged and handicapped. It may take a good amount of effort but I see the Super Saiyan winning.

SS Goku, SS Trunks, Kamicollo (all pre ROSAT) vs strongest 1st form Cell. (SS Vegeta joins later): Piccolo's most powerful attack did nothing to Cell. All three or four of these characters together would not make a difference, unfortunately. The only sliver of hope would be for Goku to gather energy for the Spirit Bomb. I highly doubt Cell would allow that to happen though given his preemptive understanding of the technique.
Peach wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:32 pm Is Cooler stronger than King Cold and Mecha Frieza?
Prior to becoming mechanised himself? I would say so. Cooler was able to surpass his brother with his amplification form, right? The cybernetic upgrades Freeza had received bolstered his strength but he evidently still felt it necessary to bring his father along as a precaution in the fight against what he likely assumed was the same Super Saiyan that he fought on Namek. Cooler was outmatched against SSJ Goku but this is a Super Saiyan who seemed to have trained a good deal more if his performance against the natural form of Cooler indicates anything.
Noah wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:13 pm New match:

- SSJ3 Vegetto (Boo arc) vs. Final Form Freeza (RoF)
SSJ3 Vegetto (Boo arc) vs. Final Form Freeza (RoF): Going by the original notion of base Goku having surpassed SSJG it would be Freeza easily. Without it, things become much more debatable. I might go with Vegetto since Freeza was arguably weaker than Good Buu in his most suppressed form.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:15 pm

Yamcha ( Vegeta and Nappa arc) vs Goku, Piccolo and enraged Kid Gohan (Raditz arc and Gohan can hit Yamcha just once)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:43 am

GatoF wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:15 pm Yamcha ( Vegeta and Nappa arc) vs Goku, Piccolo and enraged Kid Gohan (Raditz arc and Gohan can hit Yamcha just once)
The team will defeat Yamcha. He is somewhat stronger than Raditz yet he is unexperienced in comparison and lacks the confidence to fight two people that strong at once, not to mention people he knows. He died at the hands of a weaker opponent after all.

I reckon the fight would develop in a similar way as Raditz's, with small changes that cancel each other out(no weakness in the form of a tail but also no armor to reduce the impact of Gohan's attack). Goku might not need to sacrifice himself to take Yamcha down.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by NickLord » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:44 pm

Who do you guys think is the strongest DBS character that GT Gogeta could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:51 pm

NickLord wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:44 pm Who do you guys think is the strongest DBS character that GT Gogeta could beat?
Based on SS4 granting a smaller boost than SSG, but GT Goku being stronger than DBS manga Goku, making SS4 Goku somewhat closer to SSB, probably GT Gogeta can stomp Merged Zamasu, but with not as much flair as Vegito.
He probably is not enough to push Jiren beyond his limits either.

For the anime, base Goku is definitely stronger than GT Goku, and we've seen Vegito Blue struggle with Merged Zamasu. He shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with Zamasu.
Kefla, Hakaishin Toppo, SSBE Vegeta, Sign Goku, SS Broly, all of them should be stronger than SS4 Gogeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:16 pm

GatoF wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:15 pm Yamcha ( Vegeta and Nappa arc) vs Goku, Piccolo and enraged Kid Gohan (Raditz arc and Gohan can hit Yamcha just once)
Crucial differences in this match up compared to Raditz are the exact difference in power there was between this Yamcha and the Saiyan, Yamcha's willingness to use brutal methods to defeat his opponent (destroying limbs like Raditz did), and Yamcha lacking body armour.

Yamcha was willing to allow the Mummy Man to be submerged in a highly corrosive pool of acid just to help Goku learn the location of the Dragon Ball so I assume he'll take similar methods here. Yamcha's power level is supposedly 1480 if you go by the Daizenshuu. The downside for him is the lack of armour though his power level being arguably higher than Raditz's should make up the difference.

I'm gonna say that Gohan's headbutt could inflict some damage but it may not be enough to cripple Yamcha like it did Raditz. Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon would need to land directly for the match to be won by the team. It's otherwise going to come down to Yamcha overpowering and outlasting them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by NickLord » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:22 pm

SSB Gogeta vs Awakened Jiren

UE Vegeta vs Full Power Broly (DBS)

SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:59 pm

NickLord wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:22 pm SSB Gogeta vs Awakened Jiren

UE Vegeta vs Full Power Broly (DBS)

SSJ4 Goku (17 arc) vs SSJ3 Vegito (Buu saga)
1- Gogeta after taking some minor damage.
2- Vegeta wears Broly as a scarf.
3- Goku.

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