The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Koitsukai]

1. 23rd Budokai Chi Chi vs Tao Pai Pai (no dodonpa or dirty tricks like grenades)
2. Officer Black vs General Blue
3. Krillin (End of Freeza) vs Piccolo after training with Kaio (Pre-Nail)

1- I doubt Chi Chi was as strong as Goku when he destroyed the RRA. Tao Pai Pai should win without much effort.

2- I'm inclined to say General Blue, but there must be a reason why Black was of a higher rank. Based on what we've seen, I'd say Blue. Maybe the answer lies in their interactions, which I don't recall at the moment.

3- Krilin cannot compete with Piccolo after he was revived. Officially, he was at 75k, Piccolo must be higher than that considering Nail's reaction when they met. The gap between them might be like it was when they faced each other in the Tenkaichi Budokai. Krilin might put up a fight but if Piccolo goes all out it's a done deal.

[ZombieVito]

1. 23rd Budokai Chi Chi vs Tao Pai Pai (no dodonpa or dirty tricks like grenades)
2. Officer Black vs General Blue
3. Krillin (End of Freeza) vs Piccolo after training with Kaio (Pre-Nail)

1. Chichi one shots. She almost as strong as Roshi was at the 22nd TB.
2.- Blue should win this very easily.
3.- A repeat of their match in the 23rd TB but with Piccolo having to work harder for his win.

[Hero]

1. 23rd Budokai Chi Chi vs Tao Pai Pai (no dodonpa or dirty tricks like grenades)
2. Officer Black vs General Blue
3. Krillin (End of Freeza) vs Piccolo after training with Kaio (Pre-Nail)

1. According to this, Chi Chi was 130. The Crane Hermit was 120, and Goku (I think in the 22nd TB) was 150. I'd put Tao at 120, even though his cyborg version is a lot stronger at 210. I mean, that would make cyborg Tao stronger than Goku and Tien in the 22nd TB, which is nuts. Anyway, Chi Chi wins after a hard fight.

2. I never got the sense Black was there due to his fighting skill. I say Blue via murder.

3. I say Piccolo due to how amazed Nail was with his power

[XenoSaiyan]

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSB Goku (End of Moro arc)

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa

Base Vegito (DBS Broly) vs Android 17 (Post-ToP)

[Koitsukai]

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSB Goku (End of Moro arc)

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa

Base Vegito (DBS Broly) vs Android 17 (Post-ToP)

1) The Gammas were said to be on Goku's level. Then Piccolo said they were stronger than he thought, and Ultimate Gohan had the edge against the most serious Gamma. He should beat SSB Goku.
Should be noted that apparently, the movie follows up after the Broly movie, so the implication probably meant those SSB iterations and not Moro, but that only speaks of the authorial intent of a movie written 4 years ago.

2) If it's a Goku that can mantain KK like in Namek, he might have a mathematical shot, matching Nappa's +4,000 units. He probably won't win, though, it would be an even fight at best.
Most likely scenario is that he shouldn't be able to sustain it for too long, in that case, he'd be able to go head to head with Nappa for a few moments and then break down.
In any case, Nappa can tap into his saiyaboost, the one that let him fight Goku back, and with that power he'd trash KKx10 Goku, even if he can use KKx10 indefinitely without any drawbacks.

3) Android 17 never proved to be on par with the high level SSB level characters, like Toppo, Golden Freeza or the saiyans. He was clearly outclassed even when he had help. Base fusion from the movie is at the very least as strong as a high end SSB from one arc later, so 17 is not touching Vegito.

[Noah]

What are the strongest characters in these anime and how they compare to Dragon Ball universe?

- YuYu Hakusho
- Saint Seiya
- Inuyasha
- Hunter x Hunter

[Hero]

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

Using your own multipliers and headcanon, can this final version of fusion beat either of these two?



My answers haha:

1. I still have Perfect Cell with a slight edge. I don't see Goku here that much stronger than his Cell Saga self barring SSJ2/SSJ3.

2. I have SSJ Goku and FP Perfect Cell as equals here. Cell has his regeneration advantage, but I see Goku winning via his battle smarts

3. I have Gohan losing

4. Piccolo loses. The Buu saga never indicated Piccolo had grown much from his Cell Saga self.

5. Same as above

6. This completely depends on your numbers and if you go with base saiyans < Frieza. I have KKx10 Goku barely beating Semi Perfect Cell, and KKx20 Goku beating Cell Games Piccolo after a hard fight. KKx20 Goku wrecks SSJG2 Vegeta and SSJG3 Trunks.

7. If UI is the technique of the angels, then I have the fusion beating the Grand Priest. However, watch this somehow still be below Beerus lol.

[Koitsukai]

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

Using your own multipliers and headcanon, can this final version of fusion beat either of these two?



My answers haha:

1. I still have Perfect Cell with a slight edge. I don't see Goku here that much stronger than his Cell Saga self barring SSJ2/SSJ3.

2. I have SSJ Goku and FP Perfect Cell as equals here. Cell has his regeneration advantage, but I see Goku winning via his battle smarts

3. I have Gohan losing

4. Piccolo loses. The Buu saga never indicated Piccolo had grown much from his Cell Saga self.

5. Same as above

6. This completely depends on your numbers and if you go with base saiyans < Frieza. I have KKx10 Goku barely beating Semi Perfect Cell, and KKx20 Goku beating Cell Games Piccolo after a hard fight. KKx20 Goku wrecks SSJG2 Vegeta and SSJG3 Trunks.

7. If UI is the technique of the angels, then I have the fusion beating the Grand Priest. However, watch this somehow still be below Beerus lol.

1) Cell still has the edge. At best Goku can force Cell into using his FP and be trashed by it.

2) The difference between the arcs is minimal, Goku probably will last a little longer and make Cell earn the W, but that's it.

3) Gohan's boosts are crazy, by now I don't think they follow the usual route like Goku and Vegeta, so we cannot be too sure how strong his SS2 would've been in the Buu arc. Goku had confidence he'd be the top dog again if he managed to get angry like vs Cell. I actually think Gohan would be able to beat SP Cell. Keeping in mind he beat him with one just hand.

4) Seeing how weak Piccolo was by RoF, and never stopped training, there's no way he can compete with Perfect Cell.

5) Same as above, he's even closer in time to not being able to defeat Tagoma or Shisami, who were trashed by a rusty SS Gohan. I wonder if he could take 2nd form Cell by RoF

6) Goku probably was +90M, close to 100M, if not 100M by BoG, below Freeza but not that far off, so he'd be around 900M or 1,000M
With KKx10 he beats Freeza and King Cold together. He beats the androids as well, the fat and the geezer, who probably are in the low 200M at best. The twins, 16 and 1st form Cell should be around 400-500M, a piece of cake for a 900M Goku. I guess 2nd form Cell is where he meets his match, an even fight that Goku might actually win due to his technique and fighting prowess. Post ROSAT SS and Perfect Cell is already beyond his scope.
With KKx20, he'd be 1,800M or 2,000 M. I doubt he has problems sustaining KKx20 by now, and with that he should be strong enough to defeat all the grade forms. Cell Jrs, Perfect Cell, and the MSS form would be too much for him. But I think he'd be stronger than Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks from the Cell Games.

7) Maybe that crazy fusion can take on Whis, but the Daishinkan is on another level.

[Almighty Majin]

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

Using your own multipliers and headcanon, can this final version of fusion beat either of these two?

1. It's stated Goku and Vegeta already surpassed SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan and it was clear that Goku > Vegeta even without SSJ3 back on Babidi's ship so Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku >> Super Perfect Cell and since SSJ is just x2 weaker, I think that Buu Saga SSJ Goku >> Perfect Cell.

2. Goku is even stronger here, how exactly much stronger he got is up to interpretation, but I believe he did get substantially stronger than he was in the Buu saga so Goku should easily win here.

3. I think they'd be pretty even here and if Gohan were to get really angry, he would win against SPC. If this is post-Z-Sword training Buu Saga Gohan however, I think he wins easily. Gohan after Z-Sword training > Cell Games Gohan imo.

4. It's confirmed by various sources that Piccolo is not as strong as Shin and according to one of the databooks, Shin is supposedly = to Cell Games SSJ Goku. By this logic, Piccolo shouldn't be able to beat full power Perfect Cell. I don't really want to believe that Piccolo didn't surpass Perfect Cell after 7 years of training, but he doesn't really have any showings that suggest otherwise unfortunately. There's no way he didn't surpass Cell Games Goku though, I feel like that's too low for Piccolo by the time the Buu Saga rolls around.

5. Piccolo should be stronger here, but not sure how much stronger he is than his Buu Saga self. He probably still loses unfortunately.

6. I think KKx10 BoG Goku can take on the Androids and KKx20 BoG Goku would be around SSJ Cell Games Goku level. KKx20 BoG Goku vs Perfect Cell would be like KKx20 Goku vs Freeza on Namek imo.

7. Gogeta/Vegito should be able to win against Whis or at least push him to use a good amount of power, but I wouldn't be surprised if they can't even beat Beerus lol.

[ZombieVito]

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSB Goku (End of Moro arc)

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa

Base Vegito (DBS Broly) vs Android 17 (Post-ToP)

1) Gohan since the Gammas are stated to be as strong as current Blue Goku and Vegeta.
2) Goku would end up stronger than Nappa but not by much so he will lose thanks to the stress of the Kaioken x 10.
3) Vegetto will be stronger but not by THAT much so maybe 17 can stall the fusion timer out.

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

1) The same fight happens as before.
2) Goku actually wins this one but after a very hard fight.
3) Gohan gets one shotted. He doesn't have his rage boost anymore like when he was a kid.
4) Piccolo gets one shotted.
5) Same as above. The Piccolo that can beat Perfect Cell is his U6 arc self IMO.
6) With Kaioken x10 he can beat Semi Cell and with Kaioken x20 he can beat a Cell Junior/CG arc SS Vegeta/ CG arc SS Trunks/ Boo arc Piccolo.
7) Yes.

[Almighty Majin]

Master Roshi uses the Dragon Balls to regain his youth before the ToP, how far does he make it in the ToP now? How strong would he be in his Max Power state? Could he pull off Ultra Instinct properly now without his old age hindering him? If he did achieve UI during the ToP how far would he get?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

1. Captain Ginyu(Anime RoF), Tagoma (Anime RoF) & Shisami (Anime RoF) vs. Base form Cabba, Caulifla, & Kale

Vegeta instantly obliterated Ginyu, and these two would do no better. Any of the Saiyans alone would do the same here.

1. 23rd Budokai Chi Chi vs Tao Pai Pai (no dodonpa or dirty tricks like grenades)
2. Officer Black vs General Blue
3. Krillin (End of Freeza) vs Piccolo after training with Kaio (Pre-Nail)

1. Chi-Chi wins very easily. She could probably win the 22nd Budokai too; Chappa was back for revenge in the preliminaries of the 23rd but he did infinitely worse than Chi-Chi.

2. Close match. Black was definitely no ordinary human, ordinary humans like White or Silver (Who was really pushing the limits of "ordinary human" already) were defeated with little taps, Black was taking real blows and kept going. Black got humiliated by a stronger Goku while Blue got humiliated by a weaker Goku, but in neither fight was Goku bloodlusted. I'll give it to Blue because of his mental powers.

3. Piccolo. Vegeta said Kuririn's power was rising, but I don't think he went far past 75k on Namek if at all.

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSB Goku (End of Moro arc)

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa

Base Vegito (DBS Broly) vs Android 17 (Post-ToP)

Ultimate Gohan is only somewhat stronger than SSJB Goku from the same time. Granted this is 3 years after the ToP, but Goku hadn't trained nearly as hard as he did with Merus. So Goku wins.

Even if Goku doesn't get himself killed, Nappa still wins. He's gonna need Kaio-Ken x20 to hang with Nappa.

Base Gogeta would be around 17's level, so Vegetto is naturally ever stronger. He might have some trouble with 17's stamina and barriers, but should still win regardless.

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

Using your own multipliers and headcanon, can this final version of fusion beat either of these two?

1. Cell wins. Goku was only somewhat above SSJ Gohan from the Cell Games, FP Cell is way beyond that.

2. This one, I'm not so sure. Goku's improvements in this period aren't clear... But I think Goku takes this. He's stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by BoGs and even if it's they're rusty he still did some training.

3. Cell wins. He was right on Kid Gohan's hair, a much weaker Gohan can't do anything. I also doubt Gohan will manage a rage boost here since he failed against Dabra.

4-5. Even as late as RoF Piccolo was still weaker than a rusty SSJ Gohan. He'd be lucky to beat a Cell Jr by this time.

6. With KKx10 Goku would be around Semi Cell's level, right between his suppressed power and his FP, but I don't think he could win. He could definitely one shot 16 and Imperfect Cell though. With KKx20 he just doubles his power so he doesn't go very far; he stomps Super Vegeta and only puts up a bit of a fight against the Cell who beat Vegeta. If Goku gets past the stamina issues this fight would be just like their Cell Games fight.

7. I tend to say nothing can ever beat the angels, but this one has to beat at least Whis. I think he'd have an epic fight with Daishinkan too, but I don't know if Vegetto can counter his time manipulation. At least Whis will be defeated before he can do anything.

Master Roshi uses the Dragon Balls to regain his youth before the ToP, how far does he make it in the ToP now? How strong would he be in his Max Power state? Could he pull off Ultra Instinct properly now without his old age hindering him? If he did achieve UI during the ToP how far would he get?

Despite the title of strongest human belonging to Kuririn, I have no doubt Roshi would beat him fair and square even in his old state. Regaining his youth would at least improve his stamina, so he's not going to struggle so much with Ganos anymore. He might have lasted longer than he did against Frost too. Going by what we saw with Piccolo, Slug and Moro his would have his power multiplied several times by being rejuvenized, so I think saying he's around 100% Namek Freeza in his normal state seems fair, with his MAX Power nearing the powers of 17 and 18 in the Cell Saga.

I don't think this new power would make much of a difference though: Roshi lost by the time most fodder enemies were already defeated, and if Frost can counter the Mafuba then so can Jiren. Only people who could fall for it would be the girls from U2 and U6. That's ignoring UI, of course: I don't think he has the power or experience to pull it off, but if he managed to pull it off... Well his power would be beyond Gohan-Boo for sure, and his new skills could justify the feats he pulled in the manga against Jiren. He'd definitely pale in comparison to UI Goku though, so I think SSJ1 Kefla is the strongest fighter Roshi can face. And I'm not even sure if he could win that.

[XenoSaiyan]

What are the strongest characters in these anime and how they compare to Dragon Ball universe?

- YuYu Hakusho
- Saint Seiya
- Inuyasha
- Hunter x Hunter

The S Class fighters of Yu Yu Hakusho are at best around the levels of Piccolo fused with Nail and 3rd Form Freeza from the Namek arc, with Raizen being being about 10x better than that in his prime.

Saint Seiya verse is overall much stronger than Canon DragonBall (with a couple of characters being well above Zeno in power), Super DB Heroes is more comparable in power. Still, characters like MUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Beast Gohan, etc should be about to hold their own against any God-Cloth user from Saint Seiya.

Inuyasha, Naraku and Sesshomaru at their best are only as strong as Young King Piccolo.

The strongest HxH characters are only Mercenary Tao level.

[XenoSaiyan]

Who is the weakest character in Super that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta with infinite fusion time?

Who is the strongest character in Z that Krillin & Roshi from the ToP anime together could beat?

[Koitsukai]

Who is the weakest character in Super that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta with infinite fusion time?

Who is the strongest character in Z that Krillin & Roshi from the ToP anime together could beat?

1- Android 35 I guess should at least make Gogeta fight seriously. Dyt, Hit and Dyspo, who were able to challenge high end SSB characters while being weaker than them, should definitely beat Gogeta, if not with raw power, then with time skip and light speed, and plenty of other techniques.

2- Namek Freeza. Perhaps the twin androids, as well.

[Almighty Majin]

Who is the weakest character in Super that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta with infinite fusion time?

Who is the strongest character in Z that Krillin & Roshi from the ToP anime together could beat?

1. I'm of the idea that SSJ4 = SSJB personally. I know that the idea gets dismissed as Heroes nonsense, but with Heroes and FighterZ, it seems like the promotional material really wants the fans to treat SSJ4 and SSJB as equal forms. Obviously in terms of feats the god forms look way more impressive, but on a narrative level I think SSJ4 and SSJB should be treated about the same imo. That being said, by that logic, I think the weakest Super character that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta is probably either SSJB Gogeta or someone like Moro (Seven-Three Absorbed).

If you really just want to go by feats/power scaling, then I think U6 tournament Hit is probably the weakest character that could do it.

2. Well, Super's absurd power scaling would suggest that Krillin and Roshi are beyond anything in Z. The sane answer, assuming Z levels of power are still relevant in Super, Krillin and Roshi from the ToP should probably be able to take on initial Imperfect Cell together.

[ZombieVito]

Who is the weakest character in Super that could beat SSJ4 Gogeta with infinite fusion time?

Who is the strongest character in Z that Krillin & Roshi from the ToP anime together could beat?

1) I have no idea. Heroes shows SSB = SS4 so I guess Moro with Merus powers?
2) ToP Roshi could solo Z with the Mafuba but without it then I think they could beat Namek Freeza by working together and with some luck.

[XenoSaiyan]

SSJ4 being = to SSB in power/multiplier doesn't necessarily mean that GT = Super in power.

[Champa The Destroyer]

1. SSJ Goku (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

2. SSJ Goku (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (Full Power)

3. SSJ2 Gohan (Buu) vs Super Perfect Cell

4. Piccolo (Buu) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

5. Piccolo (BoG) vs Perfect Cell (FP)

6. Base Goku (BoG) KKx10 and KKx20: Who is the strongest person he can beat in each?

7. Meme fight: SSJGSSJ4 KKx20 Ultra Gogeta/Vegito vs Whis or Grand Priest

Using your own multipliers and headcanon, can this final version of fusion beat either of these two?



My answers haha:

1. I still have Perfect Cell with a slight edge. I don't see Goku here that much stronger than his Cell Saga self barring SSJ2/SSJ3.

2. I have SSJ Goku and FP Perfect Cell as equals here. Cell has his regeneration advantage, but I see Goku winning via his battle smarts

3. I have Gohan losing

4. Piccolo loses. The Buu saga never indicated Piccolo had grown much from his Cell Saga self.

5. Same as above

6. This completely depends on your numbers and if you go with base saiyans < Frieza. I have KKx10 Goku barely beating Semi Perfect Cell, and KKx20 Goku beating Cell Games Piccolo after a hard fight. KKx20 Goku wrecks SSJG2 Vegeta and SSJG3 Trunks.

7. If UI is the technique of the angels, then I have the fusion beating the Grand Priest. However, watch this somehow still be below Beerus lol.

1. *damn* this is close. I think SSJ Goku has the power edge, as he should be a good bit stronger stronger cell games SSJ Gohan, and when Gohan got serious he wasn't too far below perfect cell. But idk if Goku has enough of an edge to overcome the regen and all the techniques he has. I'll give it to Cell 5.5 times out of 10

2. Goku wins pretty decisively. Not quite a stomp, as I wouldn't put SSJ on the level of SSJ2 Gohan from the cell games, but it's not very big of a gap. Same as last one but goku can for sure get through his regeneration this time.

3. Yeah I'd give this one to Cell too. I think Super Perfect Cell is above Dabura by a bit as Cell Games Gohan needed an extra power boost to bring out his full power to be able to kill him. So it's Super Perfect Cell against a Gohan who is healthy this time, also who's not only weaker, but isn't in the middle of a rage boost.

4. I'd give it to Cell, Piccolo was thrown aside power wise in the Buu Saga and I don't think a Cell tier character wouldn't been thrown aside completely until SSJ3 was revealed (they would be weaker, but would still have some use). Yet Piccolo was thrown aside even when Dabura was the antagonist.

5. I think it'll be pretty close, as Piccolo was weak in the Buu saga and in the U6 saga, Piccolo became able to compete with base saiyan tier characters at the time. Since BoG is between those arcs, I think Piccolo would be at like a halfway point. So i think he'd win 5.5 times out of 10 against Cell.

6. Honestly think Namek arc Frieza for KKx10 and Android Arc 17 or 18 with KKx20, very narrowly though. He could very easily lose due to their infinite energy and his stamina drain

7. Does "Ultra" mean both instinct and ego at the same time? If so, that plus SSJ4 and SSB they beat Grand Priest. He'd have insane multipliers, ultra instinct to roughly keep up with Grand Priest, and will get stronger as the fight goes on. Unlike Grand Priest he also has hakai energy, giving him a slight advantage. Plus Vegito/Gogeta are dozens of times smarter and more skilled than Goku and Vegeta individually

[Champa The Destroyer]

Ultimate Gohan (Super Hero) vs SSJBKkx20 Goku (Pre-ToP)

Is Gohan one shotted again or can he put up a fight this time?

Goku dials back to regular Kaioken and one shots him.

How do you have Ultimate Gohan in Superhero compared to in the ToP? I know Gohan didn't really train but considering his parity with the Gammas, I think he seems quite a lot stronger than in the ToP. Whereas this Goku is way weaker than the one compared to the Gammas, as this is before the ToP (goku gained a ton of power throughout the tournament)

So I feel like if SSBKKx2 could one-shot Gohan then that would imply that Superhero Goku in normal SSB could do the same, as goku more than doubled in power since before the tournament

I respect your opinion though I just respectfully disagree