The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Goku9001]

That's not implied in the least. While it's true that Zamasu's body wasn't healing due to a result of having half of his body being comprised of Goku Black, the main statement we are given is that it would allow Saiyans to overcome Zamasu so long as they can inflict enough damage to overcome his pseudo immortality. Vegeta even states that Merged Zamasu wasn't healing the moment his body deformed and patently clear that Merged Zamasu had gotten stronger and he initiates a power-up and begins to match Vegetto Blue in power whereas Blue Goku was enough to drop kick him and Kaioken was enough to shatter his halo.

Sorry, I disagree.

It's very evident to me Fused Zamasu is getting weaker while fighting Vegetto. He clashes evenly with him twice, if he isn't getting weaker then he would have beaten Vegetto after powering up with his Power Stressed form.

His body wasn't healing the moment he deformed yet it's blatantly clear that he powered up. Vegeta even notes that he wasn't healing prior to fusing. The only relevance to all of this is to signify that they can damage him provided they strike him with a move powerful enough to kill him. Vegetto Blue overcame Merged Zamasu at that moment since his Power Stressed form obviously slowed him down. A Final Kamehameha wasn't enough to even damage him so clearly his power hadn't fallen.

[nineko]

And now for something different:

(1) Bulma versus the Tenkaichi Budokai announcer, in the regular DB era.

(2) they have a rematch in the Z era, and Bulma got her potential unlocked when she was on Namek with the boys.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Master Roshi (TOP) vs....

1. Zarbon

2. Ginyu

3. Frieza

4. King Cold

5. Android 19 or 20

6. Android 17 or 18

7. First form Cell

8. Android 16

9. Semi Perfect Cell

10. Perfect Cell

11. Fat Buu

12. Super Buu

13. Buuhan



Basically, what is the strongest Z villain Roshi from Super could beat?

Between getting Goku excited to spar, being capable of sensing God Ki and his UI-esque skills in the Manga, Roshi ought to clear.

And now for something different:

(1) Bulma versus the Tenkaichi Budokai announcer, in the regular DB era.

(2) they have a rematch in the Z era, and Bulma got her potential unlocked when she was on Namek with the boys.

In the first one I say the announcer because grown man > teenage girl. In the rematch Bulma should definitely be superhuman. A potential unlock isn’t something to sneeze at. She stomps unless the announcer shows his true power.

Sorry, I disagree.

It's very evident to me Fused Zamasu is getting weaker while fighting Vegetto. He clashes evenly with him twice, if he isn't getting weaker then he would have beaten Vegetto after powering up with his Power Stressed form.

I’m pretty sure we only see Vegetto clashing evenly with normal Mutated Zamasu. After Zamasu bulks up we cut to the others and when we see the fight again Vegetto is getting by on raw speed. Looks like a Cell vs Trunks situation.

[DBZAOTA482]

And now for something different:

(1) Bulma versus the Tenkaichi Budokai announcer, in the regular DB era.

(2) they have a rematch in the Z era, and Bulma got her potential unlocked when she was on Namek with the boys.

1. The announcer is a grown man while Bulma was a teenager girl so he wins.

2. Bulma stomps. A potential unlock would boost her to superhuman levels.

[ZombieVito]

I’m pretty sure we only see Vegetto clashing evenly with normal Mutated Zamasu. After Zamasu bulks up we cut to the others and when we see the fight again Vegetto is getting by on raw speed. Looks like a Cell vs Trunks situation.

They clash again while Shin and Gowasu talk about him not healing again.

[Goku9001]

I’m pretty sure we only see Vegetto clashing evenly with normal Mutated Zamasu. After Zamasu bulks up we cut to the others and when we see the fight again Vegetto is getting by on raw speed. Looks like a Cell vs Trunks situation.

They clash again while Shin and Gowasu talk about him not healing again.

When Zamasu expands and Vegetto Blue explicitly flares his aura to combat him? Where is the implication that Zamasu's power had dropped? Vegetto's response to it is that Zamasu had powered up again.

[MrGohanks]

Who are the strongest characters in the series that each of these hypothetical versions of fighters could beat?

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma)

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc)

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z)

SSB Kefla (anime)

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed)

Base Gogeta (U6 arc)

[Lionel]

Who are the strongest characters in the series that each of these hypothetical versions of fighters could beat?

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma)

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc)

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z)

SSB Kefla (anime)

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed)

Base Gogeta (U6 arc)

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma): Probably somewhere in the range of the late Buu arc characters. I could see SSJ2 Gotenks being pressured though his ability to use ki and fly might net him the win here.

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc): As a guesstimate perhaps SSJB Kaioken Goku from the Champa tournament or perhaps SSJR Black. All of this is largely spit balling so I can't say for certain.

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z): Super Saiyan Gotenks from the Buu arc or perhaps SSJ2 if he's able to capitalise on the disparities in mindset and talent.

SSB Kefla (anime): Everything ever seen of mortals thus far. Kefla was already a powerful character with just SSJ2 to surpass blue Goku and pressure him into resorting to Kaioken amplification, assuming he was at peak strength. The blue amplifier for Kefla could likely result in a fighter that surpasses mortals, Hakaishin and perhaps even the angels sans Daishinkan.

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed): It won't amount to much, I'm afraid. Maybe the defeat of enraged SSJ2 Vegeta from BOG and some other fighters projected to be in the void between Buu arc Vegetto and SSJG would be possible.

Base Gogeta (U6 arc): An easier performance against Hit. I could believe this iteration of Gogeta challenging Black, particularly with the Kaioken, but he would to end the fight soon or else his opponent is going to continue to improve to the point that Gogeta won't be able to defeat him.

[Koitsukai]

Who are the strongest characters in the series that each of these hypothetical versions of fighters could beat?

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma)

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc)

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z)

SSB Kefla (anime)

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed)

Base Gogeta (U6 arc)

1- Whatever the MUI multiplier is, times 10. Nobody is really sure, I guess in the anime it's like 100xSSB or 200x. If SSG is 4,000xbase, and SSB is 50x SSG. With a PL of 10, he'd be around 400 M, where the androids are. I think I highballed as much as I could.
That means that's how strong he'd be, but with UI you can fight stronger people, due to the technique. I think the technique can make him beat 2nd form Cell, but Perfect Cell is just too much.

2- Starting on 24,000, he'd be like 9M as a SS3. For simplicity sake, gets 10x stronger than that as a SSG, so 90M. With SSB he'd be on initial Perfect Cell's level, with SSBE he'd be as strong as FPSS Goku. UE's boost is still anybody's guess, but if it doubles the power, then UE Vegeta would be on SS2 Gohan's level. If it's actually more, then he should still be below Fat Buu. I doubt the boost is so big he could take on SS3 tier characters.

3- Kefla as a SS was SSB tier. She'd follow Gogeta's route, being one step behind, Gogeta was SSB in his base, she was SSG level in base. She probably is strong enough to challenge Broly and Jiren, losing to both of them without them exerting themselves as much as they did in their respective fights.

4- He shouldn't be reaching SSG realm, at most that's what he accomplishes: being able to fight SSG Goku, and lose. We don't know how Buu's body, with all of his hax, might take advantage of all that power, maybe I'm wrong and he'd be much stronger than SSG. A SS3 Buugito might end up being a decent participant on the U6 tournament.

5- He'd be SSB in base, so Freeza and Hit go down. For Black, he'd need to use KK.

[Hellspawn28]

Complete Cell Max vs. Transformed Moro

Rules:
No copy powers
No ki drain
No outside help

If a Complete Cell Max is meant to be stronger than Broly, could he stand a chance against Moro.

[Goku9001]

Who are the strongest characters in the series that each of these hypothetical versions of fighters could beat?

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma)

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc)

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z)

SSB Kefla (anime)

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed)

Base Gogeta (U6 arc)

MUI Goku (beginning of DragonBall): I peg MUI Goku at 12.8 billion assuming this is the anime where the power bloat thanks to Kaioken and the Genkidama inflates things drastically. Naturally, he'd likely be able to beat Warm Up Perfect Cell and perhaps 50% MSSJ Goku but I don't think he goes further than that.

UE Vegeta(Beginning of Namek): Assume the same above and multiply that by 2400. Goes way up and can likely handle the majority Buu Arc characters, especially with the power boost from damage. Without factoring in Kaioken and the Genkidama inflating the multiplier and assuming MUI = UE for simplicity's sake, he'd likely be capable of fighting against MSSJ Goku and Gohan.

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z): No clue, never saw the movie. For simplicity's sake, he would be near Namek Goku if we assume it's below manga UI Omen and around Semi Perfect Cell if it's in relation to anime UI Omen.

SSJB Kefla (Anime): This is a mystery namely because Kefla's transformation isn't an ordinary one due to Kale's influence so it could naturally be much greater. Given how much more powerful Goku and Vegeta had become during the ToP just to face up against Jiren in the anime, I would actually consider Blue Kefla being weaker than Jiren.

Buuhan (w/ Buu Arc Vegetto absorbed): He would lose to a fusion between Goku and Vegeta at the start of Super given the anime's and movie's implications of Goku being the strongest including Gohan and Vegeta still being a close rival to him.

Base Gogeta (U6): Base Gogeta would presumably be stronger than KKx10 Blue Goku. I think a safe assumption is that the strongest he would beat is SSJR Goku Black before his final power-up.

[GatoF]

1 - Ultimate Piccolo vs Post Rosat SSB Vegeta (Black arc)
2 - Android arc Piccolo (Pre Kami assimilation) vs Future SS Vegeta

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Who are the strongest characters in the series that each of these hypothetical versions of fighters could beat?

MUI Goku (beginning of series when he met Bulma)

UE Vegeta (start of Namek arc)

Orange Piccolo (Start of Z)

SSB Kefla (anime)

Buuhan (with Buu arc Vegito absorbed)

Base Gogeta (U6 arc)

SSJB is probably 200,000x base (400x from SSJ3 + an arbitrary 10x to SSJG + 50x to Blue), plus Kaio-Ken x20 it’s 4,000,000x. Kefla went from rivaling KKx20 Goku to UI Sign Goku, so UI Sign is similar to SSJ2 over Goku’s highest power (In episode 109 the Genki-Dama he absorbed and temporarily boosted him, later it’s just over Blue Kaio-Ken). I say UI Sign is 2.5x, going to 10 million, and MUI is something similar. 25 million x 10 = 250 million, slightly stronger than SSJ Trunks in his first appearance, and ought to win since Trunks is a poor fighter and would fail to outlast Goku.

Ultra Ego fits being the same as UI Sign: SSJBE Vegeta goes from just a bit below Granolah to considerably stronger, a 2.5x boost fits perfectly. 10 million x 24k = 240 billion. Considerably above Majin Vegeta and Good Boo, but Evil Boo is killing him.

I’m not sure how strong base Piccolo is, but I’ll say he kept his status quo as equaling Base Gohan and other Base Saiyans. Orange Piccolo is vaguely up there with Goku and Vegeta according to Toriyama, presumably their strongest forms: Kaio-Ken Blue and SSJBE, respectively. That’s a multiplier 4 million x 408 = 1.632 billion. Falls in the gigantic gap between Kamiccolo/17 and Imperfect Cell/16, one shotting the former and being one shot by the later.

SSJ3 Kefla is gonna be stronger than Jiren when he powered up in episode 123, after Goku almost made him fall out of bounds. Goku somehow matched that Jiren blow for blow before he further powered up, so Kefla is gonna be comparable to Kaio-Ken x10 SSJB Goku in the end of the ToP. A 50x boost and she’s rivaling 3rd UI Sign Goku, probably repeating how their fight played out in canon.

I don’t see any reason to consider Boo’s absorptions to be more than addition, so Vegetto ain’t getting Gohan-Boo much higher in the ladder. He can beat Pre SSJG SSJ3 Goku and equals Enraged Vegeta, obviously beating him in the end.

Based on the Boo Saga, I have Vegetto being 20x the sum of Goku and Vegeta’s strongest powers (Minus Kaio-Ken because). I see no reason why this would change, so he sits comfortably above SSJR Goku Black at his strongest, but isn’t scratching Merged Zamasu without Kaio-Ken, and even then Halo Zamasu should still murder him.

Complete Cell Max vs. Transformed Moro

Rules:
No copy powers
No ki drain
No outside help

If a Complete Cell Max is meant to be stronger than Broly, could he stand a chance against Moro.

A complete Cell Max would definitely be even smarter than Perfect Cell. Moro might be tough, but without his magic I think Cell can just regenerate from anything he does and eventually kill him. He does have Boo’s cells after all, I think.

1 - Ultimate Piccolo vs Post Rosat SSB Vegeta (Black arc)
2 - Android arc Piccolo (Pre Kami assimilation) vs Future SS Vegeta

Piccolo finger clicks both fights. On the first one, Ultimate Piccolo is up there with the Gammas, who are ToP SSJB level. As for the second, Future Vegeta is presumably weaker than even Future Gohan since Gohan, while Piccolo is comfortably above even Trunks and Goku from 3 years before.

[Goku9001]

Complete Cell Max vs. Transformed Moro

Rules:
No copy powers
No ki drain
No outside help

If a Complete Cell Max is meant to be stronger than Broly, could he stand a chance against Moro.

Interesting question. Both are firmly established to be stronger than Broly but we don't know how much. Moro-73 is quite far ahead of Broly at least. Prior to absorbing 73, he was already stronger than UI Omen Goku and Blue Evolved Vegeta who firmly surpassed Broly according to Whis. Moro emerges even stronger after absorbing 73 and then powers up again against MUI Goku.

In the case of Completed Cell Max, having an unstable mind has adverse effects on a user's power. Ginyu was many times weaker due to having an unstable mind when in control of Goku's body. Vegeta had a stable mind but honing his spirit allowed him to become tremendously stronger to the point where he had surpassed Broly when all is said and done. Cell Max likely has both an unstable mind and weak spirit because of it so I would naturally assume the increase that Completed Cell Max would be more significant than whatever dominance Moro would have over Broly.

[TobyS]

The teams we have in SDBH:

3 way fight:

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Jiren, Hit, Yamcha

Xenos: Goku, Vegeta, TP Trunks, Goten, Pan, Chronoa, Gohan

Golden Freeza, Golden Metal Cooler, Hearts, Cumber, Super 17 (mask) Dr Willow, Turles.

Which team is more powerful?

[ZombieVito]

Complete Cell Max vs. Transformed Moro

Rules:
No copy powers
No ki drain
No outside help

If a Complete Cell Max is meant to be stronger than Broly, could he stand a chance against Moro.

Can Moro even drain Cell Max's ki? He's not like the old Cell, he's artificial.

Anyway, Cell Max wins.

A complete Cell Max would definitely be even smarter than Perfect Cell. Moro might be tough, but without his magic I think Cell can just regenerate from anything he does and eventually kill him. He does have Boo’s cells after all, I think.

Cell Max can't regenerate and he doesn't have Boo cells in him.

1 - Ultimate Piccolo vs Post Rosat SSB Vegeta (Black arc)
2 - Android arc Piccolo (Pre Kami assimilation) vs Future SS Vegeta

Considering a Ultimate Gohan that hasn't train much since the ToP was on par with the Gammas and then Piccolo was weaker than them makes me give this to Vegeta but it's not going to be easy.

Piccolo but Vegeta puts a good fight.

[DBZAOTA482]

The son of the ogre tries to enter the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, enticed to fight Goku and Tien.

Does he clear the gauntlet?

1. King Chappa

• Chaozu

• Yajirobe

• Anonymous (Chi-Chi)

• Tao Pai Pai

• Yamcha

• Krillin

• Tien

• Shen (Kami)

• Piccolo

• Goku

[Peach]

Krillin, 18, Tien, Roshi, Piccolo, Yamcha, Chiaotzu (Moro arc) vs. Base Black

Goku (Battle of Gods) and Future Trunks vs. Gohan (TOP) and 17 (TOP).

Super Saiyan Rage Trunks vs. Golden Frieza

[ZombieVito]

Krillin, 18, Tien, Roshi, Piccolo, Yamcha, Chiaotzu (Moro arc) vs. Base Black

Goku (Battle of Gods) and Future Trunks vs. Gohan (TOP) and 17 (TOP).

Super Saiyan Rage Trunks vs. Golden Frieza

1) Black murders everyone in a way that makes Nappa's rampage back in the Saiyan arc look tame.
2) Goku gets finger flicked like the ant he is at the start of the fight and team B eventually wears Future Trunks down.
3) Only way Freeza wins this is if this is his ToP arc self. If this is RoF arc Freeza then it's a repeat of their battle from Z.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Future Trunks (DB Super) vs Zamasu and Hypothetical Super Saiyan Goku Black (anime)