The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Koitsukai
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:59 am

Peach wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:51 pm Pikkon vs. Broly

Mecha Frieza vs. Dr. Gero
1) Broly kills him. Paikuhan's performance against Cell, considering he couldn't one-shot SS Goku, seems to be a case of sucker punching.

2) This is a blind spot in DB. We don't know how Gero compares to 19 or how Piccolo compares to Freeza.
If the androids are even, Gero, as 19 was, would be outclassed by a sick SS, who could be at Namek SS level. In that case, Gero vs Namek 100% Freeza would result in Freeza having the edge until his power starts to drop. Mecha Freeza, at full power, should defeat Gero.

But let's pretend sick SS > Namek SS. Here, Gero might beat Namek Freeza just like Goku did, and against Mecha Freeza we would have a pretty even fight.
I guess it depends on how much weaker Goku was due to the heart virus... considering Vegeta beat 19 who had absorbed Goku's power and his own power, and Vegeta should not be that much stronger than Goku, I'm inclined to believe the heart virus weakened Goku a great deal.

That, in terms of power, in practice, Gero would easily absorb Freeza's attacks and get the edge.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Makaioshin » Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:39 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:59 am Paikuhan's performance against Cell, considering he couldn't one-shot SS Goku, seems to be a case of sucker punching.
He takes him out very squarely and plainly. The narrative of the story is just that Goku has grown exponentially in strength from when the two of them first meet.

Paikuhan and Goku vs. Broli is actually a match up that is implied to happen later in the ending of Z11. Though I imagine Broli there would have grown strong enough to give Goku and him a dramatic fight.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:39 am

Ikari Broly vs Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc)
Vegeta (Final Zenkai on Namek) vs 3rd form Freeza

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 am

GatoF wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:39 am Ikari Broly vs Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc)
Vegeta (Final Zenkai on Namek) vs 3rd form Freeza
1. Ikari Broly was more or less high ssjgod to low SsjB tier. Gohan…in the manga? It’s confusing where to place him. I mean he fought and defeated Kefla. Beat 7/3 with Moro’s powers. But lost to Moro’s right hand man after being buffed.

To be honest the movies can fit better in the anime continuity.

Personally, I think Gohan wins this, but loses to ssj Broly or above.

2. Final zenkai Vegeta seemed to be confident enough to challenge final form frieza. Obviously, Vegeta was delusional. And frieza wasn’t even trying. However, whatever percentage Frieza was using then, it was far stronger than his previous form.

I give it to Vegeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm

How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Fused Zamasu wins this for the team. The Grand Priest is probably one of the most overrated characters in the manga, people think he can do anything, but he's never shown the ability to erase Immortals and the "Angel sealing technique" that was mentioned briefly by Whis is too ambiguous to be used in a debate (there is literally 0 intel on it aside from the fact that it exists, but we don't know its counters and weaknesses for example).

So in other words Fused Zamasu outlasts thanks to his Immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, which would allow him to always remain conscious too, and which can't be countered by Grand Priest.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:28 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Fused Zamasu wins this for the team. The Grand Priest is probably one of the most overrated characters in the manga, people think he can do anything, but he's never shown the ability to erase Immortals and the "Angel sealing technique" that was mentioned briefly by Whis is too ambiguous to be used in a debate (there is literally 0 intel on it aside from the fact that it exists, but we don't know its counters and weaknesses for example).

So in other words Fused Zamasu outlasts thanks to his Immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, which would allow him to always remain conscious too, and which can't be countered by Grand Priest.
We don't know HOW much stronger he is than one angel do we? He might only be like 1.5 times stronger than all the other angels who are about equal.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:20 pm

TobyS wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:28 pm We don't know HOW much stronger he is than one angel do we? He might only be like 1.5 times stronger than all the other angels who are about equal.
You can try to make that argument but it's useless because we don't know how the Angels compare to one another.

For example, the Grand Priest (as the father) might be a 100 and all other Angels individually might be like a 7. Does this sound ridiculous? Well then just think of how much stronger Goku is compared to his children :think: So all Angels together would still be weak against Grand Priest.

Or the Angels might be a 7 individually while the Grand Priest is a 14, which means that all Angels together would stomp him. In this case the Grand Priest would still be far stronger than every Angel individually, but too weak against all of them.

But again we literally don't know anything about how the Angels compare, so it's just safe to say that Fused Zamasu, in case the worst happened (as in everyone else got stomped), would secure a win thanks to his Immortality and Perfect regeneration capabilities.

The Win condition of the team is not killing the Grand Priest, but surviving for an hour. And Fused Zamasu, as an Immortal being, is one of the best at outlasting his opponent.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Thani » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:53 pm

The Grand Priest is the undisputed #1 in the multiverse, according to Whis himself. In a 1v1 there's no reason to assume he can't win handily by his mastery of Ultra Instinct alone, which Whis also stated to be superior to his own.

But against all of that opposition? I'd say he loses, honestly, because numbers can matter.

Also Fused Zamasu can theoretically tank the Grand Priest for the one hour if he needs to. He won't be laying a finger on him, though.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:57 pm

I don't see why Zamasu can't be knocked out. Immortality doesn't mean you don't ever sleep or go unconscious.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:09 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Fused Zamasu wins this for the team. The Grand Priest is probably one of the most overrated characters in the manga, people think he can do anything, but he's never shown the ability to erase Immortals and the "Angel sealing technique" that was mentioned briefly by Whis is too ambiguous to be used in a debate (there is literally 0 intel on it aside from the fact that it exists, but we don't know its counters and weaknesses for example).

So in other words Fused Zamasu outlasts thanks to his Immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, which would allow him to always remain conscious too, and which can't be countered by Grand Priest.
There are a few things to note. Merged Zamasu stood no chance to Zeno, as he was able to easily erase him.

And we know uneqivically that the Grand Priest is the Strongest as stated by whis here, clearly scaling him above Zeno as Whis is aware of Zeno's power :
Image

We also know that the Grand Priest has the ability to erase people much like Zeno as he Erased Merus from existence without even being near him:
Image

So from this, Merged Zamasu should be no trouble and neither should the rest of the list for that matter.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:26 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:09 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Fused Zamasu wins this for the team. The Grand Priest is probably one of the most overrated characters in the manga, people think he can do anything, but he's never shown the ability to erase Immortals and the "Angel sealing technique" that was mentioned briefly by Whis is too ambiguous to be used in a debate (there is literally 0 intel on it aside from the fact that it exists, but we don't know its counters and weaknesses for example).

So in other words Fused Zamasu outlasts thanks to his Immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, which would allow him to always remain conscious too, and which can't be countered by Grand Priest.
There are a few things to note. Merged Zamasu stood no chance to Zeno, as he was able to easily erase him.

And we know uneqivically that the Grand Priest is the Strongest as stated by whis here, clearly scaling him above Zeno as Whis is aware of Zeno's power :
Image

We also know that the Grand Priest has the ability to erase people much like Zeno as he Erased Merus from existence without even being near him:
Image

So from this, Merged Zamasu should be no trouble and neither should the rest of the list for that matter.
Interesting, but tell me, if the Grand Priest is soooo strong, why was he nowhere to be seen while Zamasu executed Project Zero Mortals? And even after he killed all his children (by causing them to go inactive)?

Also, Merus might not have been immortal. I don't even know if full Angels are immortal (is there any source for this?), but since Merus was just a novice he might not have been immortal yet.

And Zeno is literally known as the "King of All", it is impossible for someone stronger than him to exist, the reason is in his name.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:58 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Daishinkan can beat everybody but Beerus. He stands no chance against mighty Beerus and his full power of retcon.

About Zamasu, if Whis and Beerus had no worries with dealing with a creature that cannot be killed, why would the Daishinkan encounter any trouble? Jiren has a device that can trap somebody that gave CSSB level Toppo, and Dyspo, trouble. And with the mafuba being shown as failing only because they forgot the lid, not because it was not enough to hold him inside, Daishinkan should deal with MZ while yawning.

Now seriously, the GoDs are referred to as one big tier, even though there are big differences between them, while Daishinkan is ranked as the strongest, which makes me think the gulf between him and the rest is large.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:37 am

And for the record, let it be known that Future Zamasu =/= Fused Zamasu. There's no guarantee an attack might work on Fused Zamasu just because it worked on Future Zamasu. Fused Zamasu already exceeded everyone's expectations when he became a threat so great that only Zeno himself could defeat, so it would be foolish to underestimate him.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:27 am

I'm pretty sure Zeno is more powerful than Daishinkan. Daishinkan is just the strongest fighter, while Zeno isn't a fighter.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:59 am

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:58 am
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm How about Daishinkan vs. a team of:

- Every Hakaishin
- Every other Angel (including Merus before he lost his powers)
- Current Goku and Vegeta
- Moro (full power)
- Granolah
- Broly
- Jiren
- Toppo
- Dyspo
- 17
- Anilaza
- Bergamo
- Hit
- Kefla
- Golden Freeza
- Future Trunks
- Merged Zamasu

All at once?

The team wins if even one of them can remain conscious after 1 hour, but they are not allowed to run, they must fight.
Daishinkan can beat everybody but Beerus. He stands no chance against mighty Beerus and his full power of retcon.
This reminded me of that fan comic where Beerus decides to rebel against the OmniKing and starts killing every single angel and god of destruction, including the Grand Priest :lol:

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:26 am
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:09 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:11 pm

Fused Zamasu wins this for the team. The Grand Priest is probably one of the most overrated characters in the manga, people think he can do anything, but he's never shown the ability to erase Immortals and the "Angel sealing technique" that was mentioned briefly by Whis is too ambiguous to be used in a debate (there is literally 0 intel on it aside from the fact that it exists, but we don't know its counters and weaknesses for example).

So in other words Fused Zamasu outlasts thanks to his Immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, which would allow him to always remain conscious too, and which can't be countered by Grand Priest.
There are a few things to note. Merged Zamasu stood no chance to Zeno, as he was able to easily erase him.

And we know uneqivically that the Grand Priest is the Strongest as stated by whis here, clearly scaling him above Zeno as Whis is aware of Zeno's power :
Image

We also know that the Grand Priest has the ability to erase people much like Zeno as he Erased Merus from existence without even being near him:
Image

So from this, Merged Zamasu should be no trouble and neither should the rest of the list for that matter.
Interesting, but tell me, if the Grand Priest is soooo strong, why was he nowhere to be seen while Zamasu executed Project Zero Mortals? And even after he killed all his children (by causing them to go inactive)?

Also, Merus might not have been immortal. I don't even know if full Angels are immortal (is there any source for this?), but since Merus was just a novice he might not have been immortal yet.

And Zeno is literally known as the "King of All", it is impossible for someone stronger than him to exist, the reason is in his name.
To Answer your question, as far as inseries goes he still couldn't do anything as Angels aren't allowed to fight. Out of series, the arc would end immediatley :lol:

As for Meerus, the only immortality that has been confirmed is Longevity as it was stated Meerus was given a lifespan, Implying they never age and would under normal circumstances live forever.

And is there any concrete statments in the Manga that put the Grand Preist Below Zeno Power Wise?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:47 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:20 pm
TobyS wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:28 pm We don't know HOW much stronger he is than one angel do we? He might only be like 1.5 times stronger than all the other angels who are about equal.
You can try to make that argument but it's useless because we don't know how the Angels compare to one another.

For example, the Grand Priest (as the father) might be a 100 and all other Angels individually might be like a 7. Does this sound ridiculous? Well then just think of how much stronger Goku is compared to his children :think: So all Angels together would still be weak against Grand Priest.

Or the Angels might be a 7 individually while the Grand Priest is a 14, which means that all Angels together would stomp him. In this case the Grand Priest would still be far stronger than every Angel individually, but too weak against all of them.

But again we literally don't know anything about how the Angels compare, so it's just safe to say that Fused Zamasu, in case the worst happened (as in everyone else got stomped), would secure a win thanks to his Immortality and Perfect regeneration capabilities.

The Win condition of the team is not killing the Grand Priest, but surviving for an hour. And Fused Zamasu, as an Immortal being, is one of the best at outlasting his opponent.
I'm agreeing with the first part of what you were saying. someone said he would stomp I'm saying we don't know how much stronger he is.

Zamasu can be sealed by an angel he can easily be sealed by the GP. If it takes time to prep the attack or something and the other angels mess him it up then it's back to “can he beat everyone present”

Wether he's stronger weaker or equal I think no one is winning by lasting the hour. The top was 48 minutes, fights just don't last that long in DB the fight is ending fast.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:21 pm

I don't know where this idea that the "Grand Priest might be stronger than Zeno" comes from, but No. Zeno is literally known as the "King of All", so he is Grand Priest's superior. The Grand Priest is the strongest and most skilled FIGHTER in the cosmos, but Zeno obviously isn't a fighter he's just a brat. Regardless Zeno would erase Grand Priest if he wanted to. After all he erased 6 of his Angel children when he erased Universes 13-18.

Regardless Fused Zamasu is completely immortal and able to remain conscious even with half his brain split (as evidenced by the fact that he was laughing and talking when he was literally split in half by Trunks). And again, people can bring up the "Angel sealing technique" as many times as they want, but there's nothing to discuss since we know literally nothing about it. So it's a moot point.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:33 pm

Let's bring it down a notch:

Whis vs the 12 hakaishin
(can Whis win? how long can he last?)

The 12 hakaishin vs the strongest angel, whoever that might be? Vados, Marcarita, Whis... whoever.
(Can all of them beat the strongest angel?)

Whis and Vados vs the 12 hakaishin
(Can they take 2 angels?)

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