The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Lionel
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Sun May 01, 2022 3:11 pm

Wait a minute so #17 is nearly as powerful as the completed blue state yet he perceivably has his hands full fighting Dyspo, an opponent whom Vegeta in his blue form swatted aside and who was impressed by Super Saiyan 2.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun May 01, 2022 5:15 pm

Pre Rosat Base Gotenks vs SSJ Goten. Ignoring how strong SSJ Gotenks might be and whether it's enough to warrant a >50x gap, is it possible for a perfect fusion to be weaker than it's fusers? Or was Gotenks just not perfected yet?
Lionel wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 3:11 pm Wait a minute so #17 is nearly as powerful as the completed blue state yet he perceivably has his hands full fighting Dyspo, an opponent whom Vegeta in his blue form swatted aside and who was impressed by Super Saiyan 2.
I wouldn't say he had his hands full. Dyspo wasn't really harmed by Vegeta's slap, just pushed away. Dyspo vs 17 might have lasted longer, but Dyspo admittedly had no energy left to even get him and Toppo back to the arena afterwards.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Sun May 01, 2022 6:02 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:15 pm Pre Rosat Base Gotenks vs SSJ Goten. Ignoring how strong SSJ Gotenks might be and whether it's enough to warrant a >50x gap, is it possible for a perfect fusion to be weaker than it's fusers? Or was Gotenks just not perfected yet?
Lionel wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 3:11 pm Wait a minute so #17 is nearly as powerful as the completed blue state yet he perceivably has his hands full fighting Dyspo, an opponent whom Vegeta in his blue form swatted aside and who was impressed by Super Saiyan 2.
I wouldn't say he had his hands full. Dyspo wasn't really harmed by Vegeta's slap, just pushed away. Dyspo vs 17 might have lasted longer, but Dyspo admittedly had no energy left to even get him and Toppo back to the arena afterwards.
A small but noticeable spattering of blood can be seen gushing from Dyspo as he's thrown aside. It didn't put him out of commission but it probably took a moment to recover from the disorientation of the attack. Anyone at comparable levels to a cyborg like #17 is going to find themselves at a disadvantage due to the nature of their energy supply.

Doesn't the Daizenshuu label the kids as comparable to early Buu arc SSJ Gohan? I usually have base Gotenks pegged somewhere above Majin Vegeta yet weaker than Fat Buu. I'm not certain on your question of the fusion's weakness to its fusees unless the person in question was capable of unlocking a new form but one which they possibly don't have easy access to and wouldn't inherently measure into the fusion's power at their inception. Imagine something like MUI Goku fighting Broly during that whole incident and managing to perform better than base Gogeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 01, 2022 6:53 pm

Lionel wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 3:11 pm Wait a minute so #17 is nearly as powerful as the completed blue state yet he perceivably has his hands full fighting Dyspo, an opponent whom Vegeta in his blue form swatted aside and who was impressed by Super Saiyan 2.
We never saw the fight.
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:15 pm Pre Rosat Base Gotenks vs SSJ Goten. Ignoring how strong SSJ Gotenks might be and whether it's enough to warrant a >50x gap, is it possible for a perfect fusion to be weaker than it's fusers? Or was Gotenks just not perfected yet?
SS Goten one shots. I never believed base Gotenks was anything special and Daizenshuu 7 even states SS Gotenks didn't surpass Vegeta until the RoSaT so his base is weak.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon May 02, 2022 10:27 am

Lionel wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:10 pm Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits
1) Team A wins.
Kamiccolo can remove 17 from the equation. Eventually, 17 will win, but not before the rest take care of the androids.
Majin Vegeta should now be strong enough to fight android 18 and not lose. How strong the M makes him? don't know, but should suffice to close the gap between 18 and himself.
Super KK Goku is basically SS2 Goku, in terms of power. I don't think it can actually beat android 16, but at least put up a decent fight, even if he is on the losing end. But add Tenshinhan shooting the attack that stalled Cell, who oneshot 16, and I think Goku has a chance.
SS Trunks won't be helping the saiyans, but he can aid Piccolo. If they work together, they have the power to win this.

2) I doubt Chaozu's mental powers are relevant anymore. Pui Pui isn't remarkable, and we've seen Shimorekka destroy the royal guard of Pui Pui's race. I think Pui Pui, growing up in a planet with 10x gravity, takes this.

3) Majuub was weaker than Vegeta Baby. Vegeta Baby needed a 10x boost to be on SS4's realm. Majuub would be close to SS4, but still not there.
SS4: 100
Ozaru Baby:100
Vegeta Baby 10
Majuub: 8
KK: 80

4) Hit's time skip works only with people on his level, and SS Goku was already making it hard on Hit. 17 is, at the very least, above SS3, so more than enough to put Hit in a lot of trouble. With Tournament rules, 17 probably rings him out before Hit can use his FP, that should be on SSG's realm, 17 probably is above that.

5) Goku needed SSB, and while he was mopping the floor with Saganbo, the dude wasn't staying down. SS3 would not be enough, perhaps SSG wouldn't be enough either. Goku's training made him much stronger, but not to the point where his SS3 was above Gohan's FP who was low-SSB tier by the ToP.
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:15 pm Pre Rosat Base Gotenks vs SSJ Goten. Ignoring how strong SSJ Gotenks might be and whether it's enough to warrant a >50x gap, is it possible for a perfect fusion to be weaker than it's fusers? Or was Gotenks just not perfected yet?
I don't recall there being something that makes their fusion different from the others, where the base power of the fusion is equal or above the fusees' strongest form.
Without that, I don't see why base Gotenks wouldn't be able to beat Goten, the weakest fusee. He should be able to beat the stronger SS Trunks, as well. In any case, if Gotenks cannot beat a fusee, it should be Trunks.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm

Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 03, 2022 2:02 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
1) Not sure if fusion takes into account the power of KK. If it does, then base Vegito would be as strong as Dodoria and Zarbon. Vegito would need KKx5 to match Ginyu's 120k, while his fusee could only take KKx3, and KKx4 only for a KHH.
I'm going with Ginyu on this one. Vegito would need to exert himself way too much to even be on his level, and I'm not certain that just fusing would allow him to use a higher KK than Goku. He'd need KKx6 to win.

2) Goku loses badly. Kale and Caulifla were pushing on SSG Goku. Add Cabba into the mix, and have Goku revert 2 forms and our boy is dead.

3) Anime Zamasu is on Vegito's level. Gohan is not close to that. Yet. He dies.

4) That's a fun fight that Gogeta wins. I suscribe to Kaboom's fusion theory about how the multipliers aren't as big as for the fusees as new forms are added, and that the big gains mostly come for the base form.
Sign's boost on top of SSB is fucking crazy in the anime, way higher than the boost SS Broly got, I think Gogeta needs above SS3 to be able to tag Goku, if at all. Gogeta wins anyway because UI cannot deal much damage and should run out sooner than fusion.

5) Vegeta takes this one.
He was fighting Prime Moro, who should be on Broly and Jiren's realm. SSG fusion from the ToP probably is not enough for somebody that strong. Plus, Whis said that he didn't know anybody stronger than the saiyans, so by then, probably SSB fusion is needed to take them down.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 03, 2022 4:12 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change): Koitsukai raises a good point about the determination of Kaioken in the fusion's overall power. It's an amplification technique, not a transformation. Having said that this fusion's parameters may take into account Vegeta's Oozaru transformation and allow for Vegetto to surpass it. So if that's to be the case I would argue that the fused Saiyan takes this match easily.

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba: Odd conflicting dynamics with these characters. Caulifla was able to challenge and fight SSJ2 Goku on equal footing early on into the tournament. We see this exchange resume some time later when Goku is exhausted though I think members of his universe credit this to his aptitude as a fighter. Once Kale in her controlled SSJ2 form comes into the picture they have him on the ropes. It prompts him into transitioning two levels higher to the red form. I question how much power SSJG actually had at the time though it must have at least exceeded what Goku would have had with just SSJ3.

It's difficult to rationalise because of how much accommodation there is for the sake of having an entertaining fight. I suppose I would side with Goku here though.

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality): Gohan's position at this time is in some enigmatic realm between the qualifying standards of a blue fighter during the Tournament of Power yet below the metrics for blue come the latter half of the Moro arc. Having said that Fused Zamasu in the anime would mount an impressive resistance against blue Vegetto. In spite of how much time has elapsed since the Zamasu incident and the training undergone, I don't believe Gohan here has surpassed that rendition of Vegetto.

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP): Wasn't Broly branded the most powerful mortal in the novelisation? Gogeta could handle himself well against the brute using just Super Saiyan before things escalated even further. I believe he would win against the imperfect Ultra Instinct form here.

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP): Since Vegetto wasn't present during the TOP his position here is up to speculation. Perhaps he would be stronger than Goku or Vegeta's blue forms but not Ultra Instinct without transformations? I may side with Vegetto here though it may not be one sided.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue May 03, 2022 5:32 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
A) Vegito should win this pretty easily. At the bare minimum I see him reaching 180,000.
B) Kale finger flicks him less than a second after the match starts.
C) Zamasu. Goku needed at the bare minimum Kaioken times 2 (I have Goku use times 10 myself) to beat him. Gohan is getting there but he still falls short.
D) Even first sign UI Omen Goku wins easily.
E) Vegeta. He was stronger than UIO Goku so he one shots.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed May 04, 2022 11:56 am

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
Base Vegetto, easily. He’d be at least 1st form Freeza level.

Caulifla and Cabba should be no problem to Goku, but Kale is a bit harder. Still giving it to Goku though.

Merged Zamasu. Manga characters are on the very low end of universal bursters, while Zamasu is hundreds of times above casual universe busters like SSJG Goku.

Goku. I don’t think SSJB Gogeta is many times stronger UI Goku, and the difference between God and Blue is way bigger than the difference between Sign and Complete UI.

Vegeta wins thanks to Spirit Fission, not sure who’s stronger though.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Thani » Wed May 04, 2022 7:51 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
1. Supposedly, fusion in general has been treated as taking the maximum power of it's combined fusees in order to stabilish it's regular amount of ki. So a Saiyan Saga Vegito would be, at best, comparable to Vegeta using his fully charged Galick Gun. Stronger than Zarbon and Dodoria, in general, but not quite on the ginyu's level. With kaioken, though, he should easily close the gap.

2. Goku wasn't inferred to have gotten noticeably stronger outside of Ultra Instinct by that time, so his SS2 is terribly outclassed by Kale's SS2. In fact, he would be evenly matched with Caulifla or Cabba. Give him SSG and it's a closer match (with him holding the advantage), but with just SS2 he's going down.

3. That Gohan is weaker than Goku's SSB, but Goku was also regarded as much stronger than in the ToP (despite Piccolo having no way to know that since he was never estabilshed as capable of sensing godly ki). Anyway, that still should be way weaker than Vegito Blue, who Zamasu is somewhat comparable in the anime. Gohan should lose this fight.

4. Honestly, a SSG fusion should be somewhat on par with Goku's UI Sign in terms of performance. So it's a matter of whether he can outlast Goku's UI. To me, because Sign is "canonically" lacking in the offensive department, Gogeta should be able to power through Goku's attacks and defeat him.

5. Again, it's the same case as above. This Vegeta is considered (although I disagree) stronger than Goku's UI Sign, or at the very least on the same level as him. Because of that, he might very well be capable of handling the SSG version of his potara fusion with Goku. Combine that with Forced Spirit Fission, and his victory is almost assured.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed May 04, 2022 9:49 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:39 pm SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)
Hmm Vegito needs SS to beat Buuhan and SS1 is a 50x multiplier. It's hard to say, I think Vegito is about half as strong. so it depends where buu falls between Base Vegito and SS1. I can't say, I like to lowball if possible so while Vegito thrashed buu it doesnt take much more 25% to own someone.

No idea, anime scaling is whack. I think Goku needs Blue to beat Base Toppo in the Top arc like vegeta, about equal to Toppo I think GOD is about a 10th of Blue and Goku isn't 10x stronger so he loses.

Piccolo easily, he's bare minimum ss3 tier now.

Base Gogeta would be SS1 Goku's level at best even if we say he rival boost puts them at Gohans ss1 or a hypothetical Goku ss2 Gohan was stronger than Goku here.

Any human solos. Chaozu takes it if we swap him in.

We know that the humans are below base goku in BoG and Goku is weaker than Freeza, but there is an insane jump from third form freeza to 100% final form. The humans showed up to fight the androids.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed May 04, 2022 9:57 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 12:54 pm Base Vegito (Saiyan Saga) vs Captain Ginyu (no body change)

SSJ2 Goku (DBS Broly) vs Mastered Berzerk Kale, SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Moro arc) vs Merged Zamasu (anime, no purple arm and no immortality)

SSG Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs UI Omen Goku (End of ToP)

SSBE Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSG Vegito (ToP)
Yeah if we count Oozaru as a Vegeta form and one Goku sorta would have too. Then base Gogeta is debatably 180,000 above Ginyus 120,000 If it's Goku's over 8000x10 he's weaker but either way he has kaioken and is extra skilled at fighting and takes it.

I mean the anime has feats outstripping the manga, which are boring and op and make it worse. So anime wins. But if we also take into account that the anime contradicts itself all the the time and scale it back down with low feats, Gohan wins. Gohan is about on par with an old perfected blue just not the current one.

Hmm interesting, if we say Blue fusion is about equal to MUI then I guess we could say that because the Red to Blue jump is seemingly bigger than the UI to MUI jump then Goku takes it?

Red is 10x weaker than blue and E is bigger than Blue. But fusion is fucking massive, and in Vegito's case he starts our ToP blue level in base. so basically the difference between E vs blue and Vegetas improvement are less than the base to god multiplier. Vegito owns unless Vegeta can use his spirit fission to break the fusion. But even then the team can win if Goku pulls out MUI and Vegito got some hits in before fissioned.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm

Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken.
Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy.
Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold.
Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc].
Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo.
Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Thu May 05, 2022 6:31 am

ZombieVito wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken.
Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy.
Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold.
Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc].
Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo.
Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado.
So Buu arc goku was barely stronger than cell game gohan. And BOG isnt long after Buu. Gohans improvement was somewhat noteworthy so I give it to Gohan.

Yakon is about Freeza level fans tend to think and Vegeta wouldnt be as skilled blind. So Yakon if its dark.

Cold. The duo with 18 doesnt mean much and he hasnt improved much since bog where he was weaker than a goku who was weaker than freeza whos about the same as cold.

So in the anime Tagoma was the strong goon right? So Ten slaughters a zarbon tier dude easily.

Roshi loses.

Depends on if Abo and Cado are first form freeza, Final form freeza or final form freeza level only working together.

If they are final form freeza level individually Yamcha cant win, but if they are lower formed or Half as strong Yamcha has a shot. As I recall Kuririn was competing to fight them no?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu May 05, 2022 9:10 am

ZombieVito wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken.
Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy.
Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold.
Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc].
Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo.
Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado.
1) I reckon Gohan caught up with Goku's Buu arc self. Goku should be a little stronger by BoG, plus the expertise. Gohan loses.

2) Goku was holding his own just fine in base. Vegeta should be equal or above that Goku, so he should win.

3) Cold sneezes and Krilin is dead.

4) RoF is a mess. Pass.

5) Roshi isn't stronger than Goten or Trunks. Abo commits murder.

6) Kado is sent to the galactic prison for manslaughter.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu May 05, 2022 12:34 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken.
Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy.
Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold.
Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc].
Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo.
Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado.
Goku one shots. SSJ2 Gohan would’ve been Fat Boo level at best, while SSJ2 Vegeta (and respectively, Goku) is above Ultimate Gohan. So when they’re both in base Goku would have no trouble whatsoever.

Vegeta would fingerclick. He’s much stronger than his Boo Saga self.

Kuririn. Even if he were weaker I don’t think Cold has anything to counter his strategies and techniques.

I think Shisami being as strong as his movie self is a good placement for him, so Tenshinhan is going to need a good Shin Kikoho to avoid getting his ass kicked.

Could go either way. Given how hyped Yamcha was about the ToP I think he’s back on training, and may not be far behind Roshi and Tien. I’ll give it to Abo for giving trouble to one of the boys, who even rusty shouldn’t have fallen lower than Android Saga SSJ Vegeta level.

Roshi. While Kado may be stronger, Roshi has all these techniques to help him.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Thu May 05, 2022 1:12 pm

SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance)

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken)

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu May 05, 2022 3:22 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 pm Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken.
Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy.
Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold.
Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc].
Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo.
Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado.
Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Anime BoG arc]. No transformations or Kaioken: Think I'll side with Goku. The anime doesn't really give an insider's look on his mental training but we can see him engaging in battle during the first episode in regular Super Saiyan.

Base Vegeta [Anime BoG arc] vs Yakon. No transformations and Yakon can't eat energy: Vegeta easily. I would say this match would be taken handily by the Saiyan Prince if it were his pre Majinisation self, let alone three years later after all of the strenuous training he's subjected himself to.

Krillin [Anime ToP arc] vs King Cold: Krillin was keeping base Goku on his toes during their practice match and weathering the blows of base Gohan well enough previously. Thanks to the high inflationary standards of the anime I believe you could make the argument that Krillin finally surpassed Freeza from Namek. King Cold shouldn't pose any issues here unless he were to destroy the planet as he once proposed to his son while they still orbited it.

Tenshinhan [Anime ToP arc] vs Shisami [Anime RoF arc]: The crowning moment for Tenshinhan in the anime was achieving a mutual knockout with Hamira, a fighter whose concentrated precision based projectiles could sever the limb of an unsuspecting Piccolo. Tenshinhan was also capable of restricting Hamira's movements and ensuring he fell out of bounds with just his clones. I believe the three eyed human can win this match. Shisami was powerful by ROF standards but this is three sagas later and I don't believe he can manage what Tenshinhan did against Hamira.

Roshi [Anime ToP arc] vs Abo: Inflationary standards and the visualisation of first form Freeza in the manga iteration compels me to think that Roshi would clench this battle easily. If somehow he was weaker I would still consider him the likely victor thanks to the Mafuba.

Yamcha [Anime ToP arc] vs Kado: Scant information on Yamcha's efforts or place since he hasn't been engaged in any mainline combat since the the Cell arc if you want to count that. On the presumption that he maintained his training in Super and my personal impression that he surpassed first form Freeza back during the three year intermission between Future Trunks' warning and the emergence of the cyborgs I think Yamcha could win this.
MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:12 pm SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance)

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken)

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance): Just my projections here but I would consider a hypothetical SSJ2 Goku from the Namek arc to be the peer of SSJ Vegeta from the early Android arc; so more or less where Goku was positioned during the actual arc itself. Imperfect Cell may find himself in a moderately difficult battle, particularly since he has no ingrained information on the Instant Transmission, but with the knowledge he does have of Goku's abilities and fighting style from the Saiyan arc coupled with his higher power and own techniques I see him eventually winning this.

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo: #17 from the future had confessed to Gohan that he had previously been using less than half of his strength during their altercations. Gohan may have improved himself enough to surpass that standard of the youthful cyborg but this is the weaker future iteration. Piccolo was literally going blow for blow against the superior present timeline #17. I can't see Future Gohan winning, Super Saiyan 2 or not.

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken): Virtually nothing is available to indicate where Tenshinhan stands at this time. By my own generous projections I think he could have been at or closing in on a power level of ten million by the Buu arc. Sounds munificent? Well I would like to think that training at what may be the highest points on the planet should amount to something. Perhaps Tenshinhan progressed further and reached fifteen or even twenty million by BOG. Buu arc Goku could be at twenty million as well as far as I'm personally concerned.

Perhaps these two get to reexperience their classic bout with one another from the 22nd tournament? Goku is aware of all of Tenshinhan's techniques and has reacted to them in a timely manner. On the other hand Tenshinhan has witnessed Goku's fighting abilities both against #19 and Cell. The Instant Transmission aiding Goku's positioning in the fight wouldn't come as a surprise to the human fighter. Who knows? It's a tactic he may be able to anticipate using his third eye. I could see this being a very close match with both sides having viable methods for winning. If Goku is able to catch Tenshinhan with the teleportation Kamehameha then he wins. Although Tenshinhan does, of course, have the Shin Kikoho to rely on which requires less setup. Tough to call. If Goku were to win it would be by the skin of his teeth, in my opinion. I might give it to him but only just. Who knows? The protective gi he's wearing may help to tip the scales in his favour.

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga): The Turtle Hermit while possessed was challenging base Goku and had even impressed the Saiyan with his strength, yes? Super's anime has grossly inflationary standards with SSJ3 Gotenks' attacks being shrugged off by a being with base Vegeta's strength. Roshi here should easily win and if he can't the Mafuba may suffice thanks to its mechanics in the anime.

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?: Doesn't Ultra Ego continuously grow the wielder's power the more he's damaged? It's presumably the equal to Mastered Ultra Instinct and would thus provide an incredibly high amplification that surpasses the gold Super Saiyan forms along with the god forms. Shot in the dark? I could see Ultra Ego Vegeta from the Saiyan arc being a challenge by Buu arc standards. Consider the implications of the original red god form being superior to Vegetto's fused power during the Buu and BOG arcs then multiply that by blue, evolved blue, and then finally Ultra Instinct. It's crazy. Buu arc standards might be lowballing. As for specific fighters, maybe Fat Buu/Kid Buu/SSJ3 Goku as a minimum with Ultimate Gohan, Buuhan or Vegetto as the higher end projection.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu May 05, 2022 5:04 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:12 pm SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance)

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken)

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
I have Cell on his first appearance at 240 million so Goku beats him easily since he would be at 300 million.
Gohan loses but puts up a good fight.
Goku finger flicks. He's at least 10 times stronger than Tenshinhan.
Roshi's only chance is the Mafuba. Otherwise he gets finger flicked.

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