The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[SupremeKai25]

The way I see it is that having the Universe threatened everytime an enemy appeared would be too hard on the Toei team. SSG bare minimum is multi Galaxy level with Physicals. Just that alone puts him way above his GT counterpart. Having the Universe shake every episode would be pretty damn repetitive, that is why it never happened again imo. Xeno Goku is a different story however, as he scales to DBH SSBs which should be far stronger than main timeline Goku. Xeno Goku is beyond anything in GT tho. Both series have many inconsistencies often because of the different writers. That's prob something we can agree on.

This is the correct answer.

God Goku + Heavily Suppressed Beerus are already universal level. Super reaches universal level literally in the first arc. The power-creep only goes higher and higher and higher from there.

Of course for example Fused Zamasu vs. Vegito or Goku vs. Moro should destroy the entire fucking universe, but Dragon Ball is above all else entertainment. No one would like it if every single fight showed universal busting feats.

There is still evidence that the BoG "planet shacking" battle is not just an outlier. Such as Toppo literally shaking the world of Void with his energy, or Gogeta and Broly creating an alternate dimension/shattering the cosmic continuum/doing whatever the fuck that was during their fight. Or Goku Black tearing a rift in time-space.

Meanwhile in GT only Omega Shenron and Gogeta are universal. That's the very end of the series. It's not even a contest lol.

Also, I commend you people for trying to make sense of Heroes' power-scaling and incorporate it with canon Super's scaling, but you are basically committing suicide.

[Grand Marshal 1]

nah scaling heroes is not as difficult as it sounds. You just gotta pay some attention and stand by to discuss some possibly contradicting points.

[Peach]

1. Ssj1 Gohan ( Buu arc) vs Ssj1 Goku (Cell games)
2. Krillin (End of Freeza arc) vs Transformed Zarbon and Dodoria
3. Piccolo (post Nail fusion) vs Lord Slug (both fighting in the giant namek form)

1. Gohan
2. Krillin with a destro disc
3. Piccolo

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

Yes.

Probably every opponent in Super except Jiren, Broly, and Beerus. Those might take Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.

Goku in Super got shot by ray guns and had bullets scratch him.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

Yes.

Probably every opponent in Super except Jiren, Broly, and Beerus. Those might take Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.

Goku in Super got shot by ray guns and had bullets scratch him.

Ki suppression affects durability. Ki runs through a characters body and makes them stronger/tougher cause thats how it works. Goku faced off some random human thieves and finger flicked them without destroying a continent. He supressed himself enough to not kill them, which also lowered his defense. As for the laser, GT Goku would get pierced too if he dropped his guard. That's how DB works.

[sunsetshimmer]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

Yes.

Probably every opponent in Super except Jiren, Broly, and Beerus. Those might take Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.

Goku in Super got shot by ray guns and had bullets scratch him.

Ki suppression affects durability. Ki runs through a characters body and makes them stronger/tougher cause thats how it works. Goku faced off some random human thieves and finger flicked them without destroying a continent. He supressed himself enough to not kill them, which also lowered his defense. As for the laser, GT Goku would get pierced too if he dropped his guard. That's how DB works.

I believe he was actually aware of those bandits before they shot him so that would be a plot hole. Besides, when Goku met Bulma he didn't even know what guns are and so couldn't expect being shot, yet survived despite being shot in head. Being nearly killed by a ray gun is different story, especially in Super where they made him revert to base form as people complained that he got hit by it in SSJB form in a movie. He didn't see that coming and was defenseless so he could be hurt by that. Although DB is still very inconsistent with this. There was one DBS episode when Goku was feeling Hit is coming and he was hit by Bulma's car which did nothing to him, but then you have scenes like Bulma smashing his head and he says it hurt. Even if that's gag moment it's still inconsistency and that probably applies to all series, but mostly to Super.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Yes.

Probably every opponent in Super except Jiren, Broly, and Beerus. Those might take Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.

Goku in Super got shot by ray guns and had bullets scratch him.

Ki suppression affects durability. Ki runs through a characters body and makes them stronger/tougher cause thats how it works. Goku faced off some random human thieves and finger flicked them without destroying a continent. He supressed himself enough to not kill them, which also lowered his defense. As for the laser, GT Goku would get pierced too if he dropped his guard. That's how DB works.

I believe he was actually aware of those bandits before they shot him so that would be a plot hole. Besides, when Goku met Bulma he didn't even know what guns are and so couldn't expect being shot, yet survived despite being shot in head. Being nearly killed by a ray gun is different story, especially in Super where they made him revert to base form as people complained that he got hit by it in SSJB form in a movie. He didn't see that coming and was defenseless so he could be hurt by that. Although DB is still very inconsistent with this. There was one DBS episode when Goku was feeling Hit is coming and he was hit by Bulma's car which did nothing to him, but then you have scenes like Bulma smashing his head and he says it hurt. Even if that's gag moment it's still inconsistency and that probably applies to all series, but mostly to Super.

When you get up from a beatdown from Full Power Jiren (while in Base), but Chichi pulling your ear or something pins you down.

[Peach]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

[Koitsukai]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

1- Cooler should be stronger, but I doubt he'd restrain himself from using ki attacks, and after that he is gone.

2- Dabura. Paikuhan sucker punched Cell, he couldn't take SS Goku.

3- 1st form Cell. He was stronger than anyone but Kamiccolo. He should do to Cooler what SS Goku did at first, only faster and with more power, preventing Cooler from regenerating himself.

4- Buu, close call. He should still be above Vegeta, plus that fucking hax.

5- Manga and Anime 17 stomp.

6- Shin by blinking.

7- Anime Black wins, he did better against Goku than Zamasu. Manga Black loses.

8- The Ginyu Force. I'm sure they know the weakness of the saiyan transformation.

9- Bardock. Nail shouldn't know much about saiyan biology.

[Peach]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

1- Cooler should be stronger, but I doubt he'd restrain himself from using ki attacks, and after that he is gone.

2- Dabura. Paikuhan sucker punched Cell, he couldn't take SS Goku.

3- 1st form Cell. He was stronger than anyone but Kamiccolo. He should do to Cooler what SS Goku did at first, only faster and with more power, preventing Cooler from regenerating himself.

4- Buu, close call. He should still be above Vegeta, plus that fucking hax.

5- Manga and Anime 17 stomp.

6- Shin by blinking.

7- Anime Black wins, he did better against Goku than Zamasu. Manga Black loses.

8- The Ginyu Force. I'm sure they know the weakness of the saiyan transformation.

9- Bardock. Nail shouldn't know much about saiyan biology.

What about 17 vs. Future Trunks? The Super versions.

[Koitsukai]

What about 17 vs. Future Trunks? The Super versions.

Missed that one. I'm inclined to say 17 because he fought stronger enemies than Trunks did, I don't think Trunks could've put up as much fight against Jiren as 17.

In the manga, by the ToP, they should be even, both seemed to be able to overpower SS3. In that case, 17 has infinite energy. By now, 17 should be stronger, though.

[ZombieVito]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

Dr. Gero. He is weaker but can easily turns the tide with his absorptions.
Pikkon was defeated by Cell Games SS Goku. Dabura is SS2 tier, he wins easily.
Metal Cooler wins since he can repair and improve himself.
Goes exactly as Pure Boo vs SS2 Vegeta.
Goku Black needs Rose to win.
Jaco is Freeza soldier level lol.
Trunks. He surpassed Blue Goku and Vegeta during the Merged Zamasu fight.
Goku Black wins easily. His base is SSG tier.
Vegeta alone should be enough since he will be at 180,000.
Nail. Bardock was never an elite. I wouldn't put him over 3,000 making his Oozaru form at 30,000 vs Nail's 42,000.

[PurestEvil]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

1: If Dr. Gero acts smartly and absorbs Cooler's ki attacks, Cooler will be fucked.
2: Dabrua held his own against a Super Saiyan Gohan, I am sure he can beat Paikuhan easily.
3: If we are to assume Grey Buu has the same powers as any other Buu, then Majin Vegeta is fucked
4: This is quite a difficult assessment to make. I'd say Black would get the upper hand due to his ability to improve his fighting after being beaten.
5: The Supreme Kai, of course, I don't think Jaco can even use ki attacks.
6: Android 17 can keep his own against SSJ Blue Goku, he can certainly beat Trunks, even with difficulty.
7: Again, Black has the ability to improve his fighting when he is beat for a short time, so he would win.
8: Ginyu can change bodies with Oozaru Vegeta and kill his two friends. Besides that, they would need to find out about the tail weakness if they want to win.
9: Bardock would win if he used the fake moon thing. Such a brilliant scientist.

[TobyS]

Cooler vs. Dr. Gero

Dabura vs. Pikkon

Imperfect Cell vs. Meta Cooler

Majin Vegeta vs. Gray Buu

17 (TOP) vs. Base Black

Jaco vs. Supreme Kai

17 (TOP) vs. Future Trunks

Base Black vs. Zamasu (no immortality)

Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz (as Great Apes) vs. The Ginyu Force

Bardock (knowing the artificial moon technique) vs. Nail

First match is interesting. The droid were stronger then Freeza people lowball them but cooler in his transformed state is too.

They can probably beat him outright but if Gero can't naturally he'd absorb enough of coolers energy attacks to win before cooler realised he shouldn't do that.

Pikon wins unless he gets hit with stone spit.

Hmm we don't know what ratio buus power was split and some fans think he powered up a lot before splitting. So it's hard to say, I'm gonna say his final explosion could kill one of the splitters...

Hmm Base black is above around SS3 tier (trunks ss3 level SS2 can't beat him) and 17 is above SS2 but nothing to determine his upper limit. Goku makes a vague statement about 17 being about as strong as “them” I'm gonna say 17 with the endurance...

Supreme Kai ez Jaco is Freeza force minion tier.

Sadly 17.

Base Black was still stronger then Trunks, Trunks was stronger then zamasu according to Goku.

Only Vegetas a threat to Ginyu if they all know about the tail thing Guldo or Ginyu detail them all, then it's a slaughter.

Bardocks like 1000 at most so 10k versus nails like 42k is a stomp plus making the artificial moon actually costs a tonne of ki

[Grand Marshal 1]

Not sure if this has been asked already, but it just came to me straight before going to sleep lmao.

• Android 21 vs OG-73i

Granted the scaling between a game and the Manga is vastly different, but in a similar environment with the same feats and statements applying to both androids, who do you think has the edge?

How about a stat-equalized scenario?

And to not keep this boring have another fight with the same principles in mind.

• Halo Merged Zamasu vs Black Janemba

In the first instance a regular fight (feats and statements apply as in: both characters in relation to the same version of SSB Goku).
In the second instance a Stat equal fight.
And a third scenario like the first but Zamasu has no immortality.

Ah also a double what if:

• SS2 Rage Trunks with a Spirit Bomb swaps place with SSB KK×20 Goku with his Spirit Bomb

Does Trunks make Jiren put effort? Does Goku destroy Merged Zamasu's material form?

[Koitsukai]

Not sure if this has been asked already, but it just came to me straight before going to sleep lmao.

• Android 21 vs OG-73i

Granted the scaling between a game and the Manga is vastly different, but in a similar environment with the same feats and statements applying to both androids, who do you think has the edge?

How about a stat-equalized scenario?

And to not keep this boring have another fight with the same principles in mind.

• Halo Merged Zamasu vs Black Janemba

In the first instance a regular fight (feats and statements apply as in: both characters in relation to the same version of SSB Goku).
In the second instance a Stat equal fight.
And a third scenario like the first but Zamasu has no immortality.

Ah also a double what if:

• SS2 Rage Trunks with a Spirit Bomb swaps place with SSB KK×20 Goku with his Spirit Bomb

Does Trunks make Jiren put effort? Does Goku destroy Merged Zamasu's material form?

1) Now that's a hax fight. I don't know where to place 7-3 in a scale, but I guess these two aren't worlds apart, close enough for 7-3 to land a "grab" and 21 gets turned into candy. With OG73 it also matters who has he just fought. Because if he fought Dyspo before...
Stats equalized, I think 21 has more tricks up her sleeve, but 73 just needs to make itself some space for a blow and instead of doing that, grab her neck.

2) I think Black Janemba should beat the Halo out of Zamasu. Like we were saying last week, SS4 isn't that far from SSB (which at full power could overpower Zamasu), and Black Janemba required two limit-breaking SS4 to go down.
Stats equalized, my money is on Janemba's magic tricks. They looked flashier to me.
Zamasu would get seriously injured and corrupted and angry and destroy Janemba.

3) Nah, Trunks gets defeated though, Goku was too far to suffer that glare thing, Trunks needs to get too close to Jiren.
Yes, I think that should wipe out Zamasu's body. It was probably made from the same amount of people lol

[In Brightest Day]

If the following characters trained under Kami (and Mr. Popo) for the arrival of the Saiyans, how much stronger would each of them get, based off where you have them at the beginning of Z?

- Bora
- Chi-Chi
- King Chappa
- Master Roshi
- Namu

How powerful would these guys be after training with Kami, in your opinion? What are your powah levuls for each of them? Could any of them beat (or at least pose a threat to) one of the Saibamen?

[Koitsukai]

If the following characters trained under Kami (and Mr. Popo) for the arrival of the Saiyans, how much stronger would each of them get, based off where you have them at the beginning of Z?

- Bora
- Chi-Chi
- King Chappa
- Master Roshi
- Namu

How powerful would these guys be after training with Kami, in your opinion? What are your powah levuls for each of them? Could any of them beat (or at least pose a threat to) one of the Saibamen?

The thing is the crew chosen to go train with Kami was already incredibly strong for Earthling standards bar Chaozu. Goku almost gets sent back because he couldn't get past Popo, so let's drop that for the sake of conversation.
Bora might get to the level of post-Karin Tao Pai Pai.
Chi-Chi at best might become as strong as 21st TB finalists.
King Chappa and Namu probably can reach the 22nd TB final.
Roshi should get the most out of Kami. He'd unlock UI Sign at least, lol.

Of that group, only Roshi could defeat a saibamen.

[In Brightest Day]

Chi-Chi at best might become as strong as 21st TB finalists.

Chi-Chi had a power level of 130 at the 23rd Budokai, so she’d be well beyond 21st Budokai characters, even without training under Kami.

Chappa was probably above Roshi and Goku from that time period too.

[dragonball0900]

Chi Chi should definitely be far above 21st Budokai tier. Roshi complimented her, and she trained with Ox King, who was Roshi's second best student. Plus Goku beat King Chappa far easier than Chi Chi.

I would say Chi Chi is stronger than Tsuru but weaker than Roshi. Just like her 130 figure.

[Berserker1921]

Does anybody here think GT Goku can fight strong guys in Super? (I do)

I don’t think so. I personally see Ssj4 Goku at half of the power of Ssj GOD. While I feel ssj4 brings saiyans to their highest potential. That isn’t SsjGOD.

I could see Ssj4 Gogeta at or slightly above SsjGOD Goku from the BoG arc.