Koitsukai wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:16 pm
Noah wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:08 pm
Who's the strongest character a potential Super Saiyan 3, God and Blue Kefla could defeat?
Manga SS3 Kefla defeats Gohan, Golden Freeza, FP Toppo and Blue Kaioken Goku
Manga SSG Kefla defeats SSBE Vegeta, Sign Goku, forces Jiren to fight seriously, SS Broly and SS Gogeta.
Manga SSB Kefla loses to FP Jiren and UI Goku
For the anime, if we use Gogeta to compare, Kefla needs SS to be on a tired Goku's blue level, while Gogeta already in base is at that well-rested level. So objectively speaking, she should be somewhat weaker than Gogeta. So her SSB probably can't beat FPSS Broly, or it can but at a greater risk.
Based on this, I'd say with SSB she beats everybody but UI Goku, Shirtless Jiren, SSB Gogeta and FPSS Broly.
With SSG she beats everybody but the listed above + 3rd Sign Goku, still-dressed FP Jiren and Vermouth.
SS3 Kefla beats everybody but SS Broly, SS Gogeta, Hakaishin Toppo, SSBE Vegeta and 7-aura Jiren.
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Considering how much more effective or stronger Goku becomes when using his complete UI, who can RoF UI Goku defeat from DBS?
coming from someone who initially disliked the OP nature of the U6 saiyan girls, you are seriously low balling them. I'm gonna have quite a lengthy break down of my logic for this. I don't usually get involved in power scaling disucssions, and if it seems some of my sentences seem patronising it's not intended to its more to keep it simple for my own benefit in making sure my logic is simple. But I am going to explain why a Blue Kefla wins the TOP with so much ease.
SS2 Kefla was laughing about UI sign Goku's punches for a while and even then with his UI dodging skimmed his hair with her final frenzy of blasts suggesting she was almost but not quite fast enough to hit him.
The jump from SS2 to the God forms is an obscene leap in the unfused saiyans.
Kefla's' fusion compatibility managed to put her into striking down Blue Kaioken Goku (yes he was tired, but still majorly strong which I will get to).
Goku seemed to think that Vegito would've been pointless againsnt beerus in BOG which I know is just speculation since they never tried it but you have to think that he probably retained memory of the scope of his fused power, and felt the strength that Beerus had used against him. This reference strength was obviously a very very restrained Beerus.
When he became Beerus and fought against him he forced Beerus into releasing more power. So his SSG performed better than he felt Vegito could've. (his SSG got stronger as the fight went on)
So we have initial SSG Goku > Vegito without god Ki
Likewise we have Kefla without God Ki > SSB Kaioken Goku.
We don't know the multiplier used being used by Goku of the kaioken at that instance. But when he first unleashed it in the U6 tournament he was using 10x, obviously with strain at the time. Roll onto his initial fight against Jiren they have him using Kaioken without any seeming strain on his body, and the big reveal that he was already using x20. In his Later fight against Jiren he was using Kaioken again without it ever showing strain. So I'm going to say it was likely due to his mastery he was using x20 against Kefla.
This would sorta be logical as he had gone all out previously when activating UI the first time. So the picture therefore is more
Kefla without God ki > SSB Kaioken x 20 Goku > Initial Bog SSG Goku > Vegito without God Ki
It's not explicitly stated in the anime how much stronger SSB is to SSG, but guess we have manga U6 as closest point of reference in that Vegeta's blue at 1/10 strentgh was performing worse than SSG goku. So we can presume it to be less than a 10x multiplier. But we can also see it forced Kefla to transform from base when Goku went blue. his blue performance vs SS kefla seemed a bit more balanced than his SSG getting speed blitzed by her base. So probably greater than a 2x multiplier transforming from SSG to SSB.
So for my most outrageous moment in my power scaling feat I'm going to say SSB is about 5 time stronger than SSG due to that better performance of Goku.
So then ignoring all the gains in strength Goku made with his God Ki throughout super we are saying that Kefla without God ki is beating a Goku who is ~ 100x stronger than he was when he first achieved SSG. That SSG puts up a better fight than Goku felt Vegito would be able to. To be fair we will say that even though he was comparing it to his SS vegito instead of the ceiling of what Vegito could've done (SS2/SS3)
We will now address the tired goku angle. I would say that him being able to access blue kaioken would mean that he had recovered greatly. We've seen actual drained Goku unable to transform/drop out of forms (aftermath of Zamasu fight him and vegeta can't sustain blue before calling zeno) so would say based on his recovery to use SSB KKx20 and excitement for battle that he probably had recovered at least half of his stamina back.
So we roughly can say that Kefla in her fusion due to the compatibility of Kale and Caulifla have a fusion boost that puts them at minimum 50x greater than Vegito in equivalent forms. Again this is lowballing due to ignoring all those gains he had made with God Ki in super and it doesn't even address just simply how initially the leap in power when becoming SSG was a realm of power Goku couldn't comprehend.
So we have Kefla who is low balled here with being 50 x greater than Vegito. We also have statements saying that Portara > Fusion dance with regards to power. But to again lowball I will say it is equal strength equivalent.
we then have Kefla being 50 x greater than Gogeta in equiavlent forms. So we are going to say that a SSB Kefla wipes the floor with SSB Gogeta. Broly is just shitting himself 50 x greater than he was when he realised Gogeta's power.
Gogeta was beating up Broly as a regular SS. Broly pretty much shit himself when he realised blue Gogeta's power. Kefla is terrifying him on a whole different level.
Now back to the Tournament of Power with UI Goku and Jiren.
Jiren is regarded to be stronger than Broly by some fans, others have it more equal. The only quantifiers we have is that they were both too strong for Goku and Vegeta fighting together, and also the lines about Jiren > Belmoud and Goku querying whether Broly > Beerus. I think that Jiren is definitely stronger than Broly.
I say because of the mentioned scenes showing SS Gogeta beating up Broly, the SSB portion was complete overkill based on Broly's fear. I don't think I'd expect to see SS Gogeta beat up Jiren in the same way.
So then its down to even if you think Jiren could beat SSB gogeta, it doesn't seem feasible that he would beat up someone at least 50x stronger than that.
UI Goku at the end of the TOP was stronger than Jiren but once Jiren powered up it was still an even fight. so I don't think UI Goku gives the impression of being 50x stronger than Jiren by then. current information with UI in the recent chapters seem to state that he is pretty low down on the UI ladder so it's not quite as incredible and perfect as we initially perceived it to be.
I would probably say that the Gains Goku made with UI in the moro arc would be significant and be able to surpass a SSB Kefla.
but I've been writing this post for a ridiculously long time and it is late so I will stop here. Hopefully my logic sounds reasonable and hasn't been too long/arduous to follow.
