The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm

SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:30 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?
1) Vegeta. SSBE hasa way higher multiplier than SSG.
2) Hit one shots without even using his time hax.
3) Even Piccolo pre fusion one shots.
4) Gohan. SSB is at the very least a 50,000 multiplier.
5) Tenshinhan's only chance is his Shin Kikoho. Otherwise he gets one shotted.
6) She probably clears original DB. I currently have her around 20 so that would make her reach the 400 range. Same as 23rd TB Goku.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:49 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?
Goku should one shot. SSJG’s ritual boost is too large to close this gap.

Hit won’t even need his special powers. If Base Gogeta is SSJB level then so is Vegetto, and even a much weaker Hit was giving this level a run for it’s money in his rematch with Goku.

Even Boo Saga Piccolo couldn’t do anything to stop Gotenks from going after Boo, a much weaker Piccolo is going to be even more helpless.

Future Gohan is taking this with minimal difficulty. He ends up even stronger than Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks, who would probably slaughter Boo.

Tenshinhan one shots.

I have Videl at 8.5 since I doubt she cracked BoS Goku’s level. x20 she’s a 170, slightly behind BoZ Yamcha’s 177. That should be enough to destroy Old Piccolo Daimao and maybe give the young one some trouble, but once he goes full power Videl is dead.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:29 am

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?
1) With SSG, he'd be pretty close to that Goku. At least close to Super Vegito. With SSB, I guess he should definitely get closer to SSG Goku, and SSBE would finally surpass him.

2) Vegito should be SSB tier, probably a bit stronger than his fusees, and with KK he'll be doing what Goku would as SSB and more. He already knows how Hit fights, if Goku managed to fight him back in that rematch, Vegito would be doing it without exerting himself that much. The Time Cage might be a game changer, but base Vegito shouldn't be as confident as Jiren.
I'm not sure if KKx20 or KKx30 would be enough to break free from it.

3) Gotenks is a mess. If he follows the same pattern as the other fusions, then his base form peaks at SS level, and Piccolo might have a chance. If not, he is toasted.

4) With SSG I think he might be a decent contender. He should be stronger than Majin Vegeta. With SSB he clears.

5) Tenshinhan can only survive if he takes a bird hostage and forces the android to tank his Shin Kiko Ho or he kills the little birdy. Probably that's not enough to put 16 down, he'll eventually lose consciousness before the android suffers major damage and takes him to the hospital, because 16 is a good guy.

6) I don't know how strong she is, I doubt she is stronger than Kid Goku who could tank bullets. At best, she can beat everybody up to Piccolo Daimaoh.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:05 pm

Noah wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:05 pm New match:

- SSJ3 Gotenks (Serious/No Time Limit) vs. Ultimate Gohan (can get cocky during the match)
Koitsukai brings up a valid point about Gohan's arrogance and general debasement of Gotenks' strength as a fighter putting him off more than anything. I don't see how Gohan loses this fight. The 'best' case scenario would involve Gotenks somehow using a kamikaze technique of his own and taking his brother down with him. Instead of the older sibling predictably dominating things would take an unexpected turn in both fighters dying and the battle ending in a draw.
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?
SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG): Do you mean his Ultra Ego form? A fight like this entails a chronological gap in the fighting careers of the two participants. In their respective base forms Goku would be nine or ten times stronger, in my opinion. Under different circumstances a stronger form may not be enough there if the multiplier it gives wasn't much to write home about but if this is really Ultra Ego then Goku isn't going to be able to win.

If you're suggesting a hypothetical where blue Vegeta is using the Ultra Ego technique and not the form then things become a bit more contentious. Blue is a superior form to red but probably not by leaps and bounds. I'm not sure he could win against this Goku with just the technique supplementing his transformation.

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime): The two Saiyan adults appeared to be gradually overtaking Hit during the course of several arcs. By the Tournament of Power Goku was visually and reactively fighting as well as Hit was against two of the Pride Troopers using just his red form. In this versus match, though, the opponent in question is from two arcs prior where he's stronger than the blue Saiyans of the Future Trunks arc but arguably not enough to overwhelm Hit when he was contracted to kill Goku.

Vegetto has the experience and techniques of his fusees. I could see him putting up a good fight here. If he uses the Kaioken then he'll win the fight. Hit would need to kill Vegetto early into the match with a technique like the Shunken Ensatsu or else he's going to find himself overwhelmed.

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat): If the same rules of fusion superiority to the fusee's strongest forms applies to Gotenks here then Kamiccolo is easily defeated. The Super Namekian either resorts to the Mafuba or he's going to lose and lose badly at that.

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc): The outcome of this fight sees Fat Buu reduced to nothingness and Gohan having saved his world. By present timeline standards Future Gohan wasn't too impressive but the blue form yields such a large amplification boost that he could defeat this iteration of Buu and quite possibly Super with his absorbed iterations too.

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime): Tenshinhan resorting to the Shin Kikoho seems like an obvious trump card to resort to here. If the battle pans out in more conventional terms then things become more speculative. Tenshinhan's best performances in the anime were getting incapacitated by the Thunder Shock Surprise from a possessed Roshi whom Goku later went on to compliment for his improved strength. Keep in mind that the fighting standards had become so inflationary by this point that base Goku could tussle with the likes of a trained up Good Buu and hold his own. Tenshinhan might just be able to defeat #16 anyway despite his poor performance against Roshi and Gohan.

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?: The only things we know concerning Videl are that she bludgeoned a self-restricting Spopovich to no avail and flew across continents to get to places. I find it hard to believe that she could have surpassed everyone from Dragon Ball, though. If she has access to the Kaioken here then defeating everything up to the 22nd tournament may be possible. It's the strongest participants of that tournament that have me questioning whether she can survive or not.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm

Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:43 am

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:28 pm SSBE Vegeta (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)

Hit (ToP anime) vs Base Vegito (End of Black arc anime)

Kamicollo vs Base Gotenks (Buu saga pre-Rosat)

SSB Future Gohan vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)

Android 16 vs Tien (ToP anime)

And if Buu saga Videl had Kaioken x20, who is the strongest character that she could beat?
R1 definitely Vegeta
R2 Vegito
R3 gotenks stomps . Gotenks > base adult saiyans> piccolo in Buu saga
R4 Gohan stomps
R6 Tien. The anime has every human at least around s.p cell tier , downscaling them from base Goku
R7 old piccolo daimaoh

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:51 am

Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Piccolo one shots. He’s probably closer to 1st trip Vegeta and Trunks.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:18 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:51 am
Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Piccolo one shots. He’s probably closer to 1st trip Vegeta and Trunks.
What, how would Piccolo one shot then? Lulz.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:02 pm

Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
He was a step or two below Trunks during the Cell Games. How much weaker is not clear, just like his gains after 7 years of training alone. At best, he closed the gap and won't lose to Trunks as easily, but it's an uphill battle. I doubt there's much to gain from regular, solo training.

In fact, his uselessness in early DBS implies his gains throughout his babysitting years weren't as impressive as one would've expected or thought initially. Manga Frost is basically Perfect Cell level or so, and while tired, Big Green still struggled a lot. Not to mention how lame he was in RoF, the weakest SS Gohan ever was much stronger than he was, even though "he never stops training". So, if really small gains from CG to RoF and U6, then they must be even smaller from CG to Buu arc.
It seems he is just staying fit, not breaking his limits or making huge improvements, but also not getting weaker like Gohan tends to.

I think the advantage is on Trunks' side because of being a saiyan, there's always a rage boost available for them if needed. Although, Piccolo is much more experienced. I think, eventually, Trunks wins because he is stronger, but it should be a close one due to Big Green being the better fighter.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:21 pm

Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Considering how Piccolo was implied to be weaker than the Buu Arc Saiyans which is reinforced by the fact that Piccolo was weaker than Base Gohan in the anime's retelling of RoF, I'm inclined to say that Trunks would one-shot Piccolo.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:45 pm

But not even the mini Cells could one shot Piccolo.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:18 pm

Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Bit of a hornet's nest this one is. My own interpretation has Piccolo at a minimum equal to the Cell Jrs to having moderately surpassed them. His strength gains would likely be modest similar to Goku and Vegeta's but I don't think he remained utterly stagnant during this time frame. It's clear he was on the losing end when he fought Cell Jr during the Cell Games but it's not like he couldn't stand his ground and make an effort to fight back.

Here is how I tend to rank the pertinent roster for the Cell Games

MSSJ Gohan: 120-125
MSSJ Goku: 100
Cell Jr: 75
SSJ Vegeta: 70
SSJ Trunks: 65
Piccolo: 60
Piccolo (Buu arc): 75-80

May not be too accurate of a reflection of what the power dynamics were actually like and I'd be open to changing it.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:40 pm

Lionel wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:18 pm
Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Bit of a hornet's nest this one is. My own interpretation has Piccolo at a minimum equal to the Cell Jrs to having moderately surpassed them. His strength gains would likely be modest similar to Goku and Vegeta's but I don't think he remained utterly stagnant during this time frame. It's clear he was on the losing end when he fought Cell Jr during the Cell Games but it's not like he couldn't stand his ground and make an effort to fight back.

Here is how I tend to rank the pertinent roster for the Cell Games

MSSJ Gohan: 120-125
MSSJ Goku: 100
Cell Jr: 75
SSJ Vegeta: 70
SSJ Trunks: 65
Piccolo: 60
Piccolo (Buu arc): 75-80

May not be too accurate of a reflection of what the power dynamics were actually like and I'd be open to changing it.
Do you think Piccolo could do as well against Trunks in the CGs as Vegeta did vs a Cell Junior?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:57 pm

Mireya wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:40 pm
Lionel wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:18 pm
Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Bit of a hornet's nest this one is. My own interpretation has Piccolo at a minimum equal to the Cell Jrs to having moderately surpassed them. His strength gains would likely be modest similar to Goku and Vegeta's but I don't think he remained utterly stagnant during this time frame. It's clear he was on the losing end when he fought Cell Jr during the Cell Games but it's not like he couldn't stand his ground and make an effort to fight back.

Here is how I tend to rank the pertinent roster for the Cell Games

MSSJ Gohan: 120-125
MSSJ Goku: 100
Cell Jr: 75
SSJ Vegeta: 70
SSJ Trunks: 65
Piccolo: 60
Piccolo (Buu arc): 75-80

May not be too accurate of a reflection of what the power dynamics were actually like and I'd be open to changing it.
Do you think Piccolo could do as well against Trunks in the CGs as Vegeta did vs a Cell Junior?
Well when looking at it with the optics of the above numbers it sounds like Piccolo could prove to be a hard fought battle for Trunks. His Namekian based techniques could hopefully make a difference here. Do I think he could win? It would be an uphill battle for him.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:19 pm

Lionel wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:57 pm
Mireya wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:40 pm
Lionel wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:18 pm

Bit of a hornet's nest this one is. My own interpretation has Piccolo at a minimum equal to the Cell Jrs to having moderately surpassed them. His strength gains would likely be modest similar to Goku and Vegeta's but I don't think he remained utterly stagnant during this time frame. It's clear he was on the losing end when he fought Cell Jr during the Cell Games but it's not like he couldn't stand his ground and make an effort to fight back.

Here is how I tend to rank the pertinent roster for the Cell Games

MSSJ Gohan: 120-125
MSSJ Goku: 100
Cell Jr: 75
SSJ Vegeta: 70
SSJ Trunks: 65
Piccolo: 60
Piccolo (Buu arc): 75-80

May not be too accurate of a reflection of what the power dynamics were actually like and I'd be open to changing it.
Do you think Piccolo could do as well against Trunks in the CGs as Vegeta did vs a Cell Junior?
Well when looking at it with the optics of the above numbers it sounds like Piccolo could prove to be a hard fought battle for Trunks. His Namekian based techniques could hopefully make a difference here. Do I think he could win? It would be an uphill battle for him.
I don't know, the way Cell mentioned Vegeta and Trunks alone as the possible replacements for Goku and as the ones fighting somewhat evenly vs the Cell Juniors make it seem unlikely Piccolo could do much in a 1 vs 1 battle against Trunks. I imagine something like Zarbon vs Vegeta before Zarbon transformed with Trunks being Vegeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm

Mireya wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:18 am
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:51 am
Mireya wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:24 pm Boo saga Piccolo vs [Cell Games] SSJ Future Trunks
Piccolo one shots. He’s probably closer to 1st trip Vegeta and Trunks.
What, how would Piccolo one shot then? Lulz.
He would land one shot that gets tanked before being taken outImage
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Mireya » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:39 pm

Lol. I myself prefer a middle ground. Piccolo in the CGs isn't too close, but is not too distanced either.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:27 am

I have them as equals but Piccolo wins because of way superior skill. It's not an easy win though.

Piccolo
CG: 1,200,000,000
Boo: 1,500,000,000

SS Trunks/SS Vegeta/Cell Jr.
CG: 1,500,000,000

SS Goku
CG: 2,000,000,000

SS Gohan
CG: 2,800,000,000

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:21 pm

From 1 to 7 how many Cell Jrs. at the same time could these characters solo ? :

SSJ1 Cell Games Goku
SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Gohan
SSJ1 Early Buu Saga Vegeta

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