The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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SupremeKai25
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:31 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:29 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:47 am
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:39 am Gohan, easily. Black became trash next to SSJBs in his own saga.
Were we watching the same saga? The one where Black in his prime was effortlessly toying with 2 SSB Saiyans without even having to move one finger? :eh:
Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.
That's not what you said.

You said that Black looked like fodder compared to SSB Saiyans, this is an insane hill to die on. After fusing, Gowasu literally praised Black as the most powerful fighter in the battlefield.

And obviously Black got surpassed because he ceased to exist when he fused. It would be unfair to mock him for falling behind his enemies when he was literally gone from existence.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:09 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:31 am
And obviously Black got surpassed because he ceased to exist when he fused. It would be unfair to mock him for falling behind his enemies when he was literally gone from existence.
That’s the point of a versus thread lol. Match up characters who never fought regardless of whether they even existed at the same time. Merged Zamasu sort of still is Goku Black, specially since Black is Zamasu. As a non fused individual Black’s known peak is obviously weaker than Halo Zamasu, who needed more power to overcome the ever growing Saiyans. I’m not sure if Black could’ve kept up with that pace, he must have been running into a wall if he felt the need to fuse.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:15 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:54 pm Awakened Jiren & Full Power Broly vs Cell Max

Base Goku (End of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (ToP arc)

Base Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSJR Goku Black in his prime & Spirit Sword Trunks

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa (no tail)
1) That's two juggernauts against a mindless creature with its weakspot exposed. Jiren is too good of a fighter to not try to go for the head-even if he doesn't know it's Cell's weakspot. They can take it, I doubt Broly or Jiren couldn't hold Cell Max just as great as Orange Piccolo did, while the other one gets ready to put him down.

2) SSG is still worlds above any base saiyan. Goku didn't get +1,000x stronger in the past two arcs. Base Goku by now, with UI, could take on a SS level enemy like SS Cabba for sure, but SSG is too much, even BoG SSG is too much.

3) Geets' base is kinda harder to pinpoint, but I don't think he's gotten 100x stronger in Yadrat, and that would be enough only to take on one SS2 fighter, against two he'd need to be much stronger. In his base form, I don't think he could take on two regular SS from U6.

4) Anime Ultimate Gohan was kinda lackluster, I don't think he can take a SSB tier character while also worrying about Trunks' attack, that cut Zamasu in half, it's just too much. Remove Trunks, and my money goes to Gohan.
Manga Gohan (even if we drop the Moro arc) would definitely be above Anime Black, and Trunks' assistance would be futile. The gammas were compared to Goku and Vegeta, who are not below SSR by now, and Gohan was holding his own just fine.

5) That's a strained 4,160 PL Goku vs a 4,000 fresh Nappa who when focused gave a +8k Goku a hard time. Even if Goku lasts as long as he did on Namek, he can't touch a focused Nappa.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:29 am Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:39 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
That's different because Raditz couldn't raise his power level to defend himself in any way. Zamasu threw a giant Ki ball that simply got overwhelmed and pushed back by their beams.

I don't think they're stronger than Zamasu individually, Vegeta and Trunks worked together and Goku busted his arms to win, but he's definitely feeling threatened to do that mutated power up. Goku deforming Zamasu's face is definitely a huge feat, but Zamasu left himself open and this off guard stuff is messy.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am

ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:29 am Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:28 am

Goku9001 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:29 am Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.
Irrelevant, Black getting surpassed because he was no longer the main villain doesn't make him fodder, he literally stomped the protagonists twice earlier in the arc and forced them to retreat.

"Fodder" as a term should be reserved for the earthlings, or for the minor universes (like universe 2 or 9), or for Broly's friends, so basically for anyone who can't be of any use in a major fight. It certainly can't be used for Goku Black, who was literally the central villain of his arc and scored two wins against the protagonists. Even the Toei producers were wanking him to no end and saying that he was the strongest character except for Beerus and fusions.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:20 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:28 am
Goku9001 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.
Irrelevant, Black getting surpassed because he was no longer the main villain doesn't make him fodder, he literally stomped the protagonists twice earlier in the arc and forced them to retreat.

"Fodder" as a term should be reserved for the earthlings, or for the minor universes (like universe 2 or 9), or for Broly's friends, so basically for anyone who can't be of any use in a major fight. It certainly can't be used for Goku Black, who was literally the central villain of his arc and scored two wins against the protagonists. Even the Toei producers were wanking him to no end and saying that he was the strongest character except for Beerus and fusions.
I never said "fodder".

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:25 am

Goku9001 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:29 am Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.
Vegetto is stronger because Future Zamasu is very weak in comparison to Black.

A fusion of 2 SSB tier fighters will always be superior than a fusion of a SSB tier + SS2 tier fighters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:32 am

ZombieVito wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:25 am
Goku9001 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.
Vegetto is stronger because Future Zamasu is very weak in comparison to Black.

A fusion of 2 SSB tier fighters will always be superior than a fusion of a SSB tier + SS2 tier fighters.
That is true. Goku Black is stronger than Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta by a good margin but Future Zamasu is weaker than them by a good margin as well. Definitely not SSJ2 tier, however. The dude literally manages to bear hug Blue Goku and even keeps him pressed against a wall. The manga makes a mention of how weak Future Zamasu was but the anime clearly doesn't suggest this at all.

The narrator's description of how the Saiyans were doing against Merged Zamasu definitely does make it clear that the Saiyans got stronger since it came directly from the horse's mouth.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:24 pm

GatoF wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:37 pm 1 Kibitoshin vs Base Gotenks
2 Final Form Freeza (ToP) vs Slim Good Buu (Pre-ToP)
3 Namek Kid Gohan (Start of battle vs Freeza) vs The Ginyu Force (no body change)

In the third battle 75k power Namek Krillin appears to aid Gohan after 5 minutes.
Kibitoshin ez
He should at best be dabura tier in power

Frieza largely.
Slim Buu was high base tier, Frieza fared better than god Goku against dyspo.

I think that Gohan has some chances here. Maybe not with ginew, but he should at least be stronger than the other four going by zenkai logic. If there is crillin too, then is sure won by gohan

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:43 am

ZombieVito wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:25 am
Goku9001 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:05 am
ZombieVito wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:45 pm
Gowasu states Black was the strongest in episode 65.

Besides those beam struggles don't indicate fighter A > Fighter B. Piccolo at 408 killed Raditz at 1500 with a beam attack.
The narrator in Episode 66 states that Merged Zamasu initially overwhelmed the Saiyans. But once they mustered their Galick Gun and Kamehameha, their attacks began to "bear down" on Zamasu. This is making it clear that the writers want us to view Merged Zamasu as a dominant figure until the Saiyans pushed through their limits and overcame him with their strongest attacks. Goku Black may have been the strongest in episode 65 but that quickly changed towards the end of episode 65 and from episode 66 onwards hence why Vegetto Blue emerges to be much stronger than Initial Merged Zamasu.
Vegetto is stronger because Future Zamasu is very weak in comparison to Black.

A fusion of 2 SSB tier fighters will always be superior than a fusion of a SSB tier + SS2 tier fighters.
Actually, I take back what I said. There are far too many complications if we assume Vegetto Blue would only be as powerful as Initial Merged Zamasu prior to the Saiyans growing stronger. It makes far more sense for Vegetto Blue to be drastically stronger before the Saiyans' power gains.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:16 am

ATA wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:24 pm Anime Z Vegetto vs Yellow-Green Piccolo from SuperHero

Anime Z Vegetto vs Super Saiyan Gohan from SuperHero

Filler Yamcha from Grand Supreme Kai Planet(when Kid Boo appeared) vs Base Kid Gohan from beginning of Android Saga
Mystic piccolo spites.
He's not that far from a SSB in terms of power

Vegito spites
Gohan isn't that strong without his mystic form

Yamcha slaps
He was beating olibu's ass

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Almighty Majin » Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm

Magenta runs a RR Army gauntlet, how far does he get:
  1. Colonel Silver
  2. Major Metallitron
  3. Ninja Murasaki
  4. Buyon
  5. General Blue
  6. Black (Battle Jacket)
  7. Tao Pai Pai
Buuhan absorbs Tien, could he damage Super Vegito with a Shin Kikoho?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:43 am

Almighty Majin wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm Magenta runs a RR Army gauntlet, how far does he get:
  1. Colonel Silver
  2. Major Metallitron
  3. Ninja Murasaki
  4. Buyon
  5. General Blue
  6. Black (Battle Jacket)
  7. Tao Pai Pai
Buuhan absorbs Tien, could he damage Super Vegito with a Shin Kikoho?
As Vegito needed Super Saiyan, and didn't even try in base, Buu is probably twice as strong as Base Vegitos, meaning with SS Vegito is at most only 25x stronger. I think the gap between Ten and Cell was more, so yeah Buuhan plus Tens power multiplied with a Kikoho would work.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm

Gas vs. Jiren, LSSj DBS Broli, and Cell Max

Can Gas take them down all at once?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:57 pm

Let's say that somehow, instead of turning Super Saiyan 2, Gohan gains access to his Beast form after Android 16 is killed in the Cell Arc, with a rage boost as well. How far would he get in this gauntlet?

1. Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Buu Arc)

2. Ultimate Gohan (Buu Arc)

3. Buuhan

4. Super Vegito (Buu Arc)

5. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (RoF Arc)

6. Hit (U6 Arc)

7. Goku Black (Scythe)



Keep in mind his experience (or lack thereof) compared to his adult form, his base power since its the Cell Arc, but also the sheer power of the Beast form, as well as a massive rage boost. I have Beast form slightly above UI and UE, so I think it's interesting to think about.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:28 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Gas vs. Jiren, LSSj DBS Broli, and Cell Max

Can Gas take them down all at once?
Assuming that Cell Max's power was established in respect to Super Hero being a direct continuation of Broly , then Gas would certainly curb stomp them all.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:33 pm

Vegeta [RoF arc; No transformations] vs SS3 Gotenks. Can Gotenks fare better against this Vegeta?
Gamma 1 vs Gamma 2.
Ultimate Gohan [Super Hero] vs Base Toppo [No GoD form].
Orange Piccolo vs UIO Goku [ToP arc; EP 129].
Krillin vs Kid Trunks [No Super Saiyan]. Both from the ToP arc.
SS Broly [No FPSS] vs SS2 Kefla.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:17 pm

Could Gogeta have beaten Broly with Super Saiyan 3 alone?
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

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