The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell Max vs Jiren (full power)

Potential Unleashed Piccolo (not Orange) vs GoD Toppo

Beast Gohan vs Beerus

Jiren only wins if he has intel on Cell’s weakness. Just having to hit a specific point would be great for his fighting style, but if he has to prolong the fight then he’s done for.

If Shin was weaker than Pui Pui, then his future self wouldn't have survived a blast from Future Dabura

Didn’t Dabra let Shin live so Babidi could finish him off? At least in the Boo Saga Babidi says multiple times he wants to kill Shin himself.

[Koitsukai]

If Shin was weaker than Pui Pui, then his future self wouldn't have survived a blast from Future Dabura

Didn’t Dabra let Shin live so Babidi could finish him off? At least in the Boo Saga Babidi says multiple times he wants to kill Shin himself.

In the present arc, yes, Babidi was more lenient about Shin's life, he wanted to save him for last.
In the Future arc, the fight is less under his control, when Shin attacks Babidi, he's going for the kill, Babidi cries for Dabura who does that special attack of his and saves his ass right in the last second. The situation is so sudden and told in such a way, that I doubt Dabura was prioritizing Babidi's intentions over Babidi's life.

Even if he was controlling his attack, Shin was still strong enough to get back on his feet and hold off Dabura. I don't see Pui Pui surviving that when he couldn't survive base Vegeta's blast. In any case, Dabura's attack wasn't enough to put Shin out of action for good.

[ATA]

Anime Z Vegetto vs Yellow-Green Piccolo from SuperHero

Anime Z Vegetto vs Super Saiyan Gohan from SuperHero

Filler Yamcha from Grand Supreme Kai Planet(when Kid Boo appeared) vs Base Kid Gohan from beginning of Android Saga

[Goku9001]

If Shin was weaker than Pui Pui, then his future self wouldn't have survived a blast from Future Dabura and still have power left to hold him down so Future Trunks could kill him, if Shin took that and lived, he can take whatever Pui Pui can throw his way.
Pui Pui is not even base level and Dabura is SS2 level. Not to mention Shin surviving Kid Buu, and present Shin surviving Fat Buu, while Pui Pui couldn't even live past a non-serious base Vegeta, he couldn't even TOUCH base Vegeta, while Shin actually can oneshot Freeza.
Two of the most impressive races of U7 were shown in DBS to be far from Namek Freeza, the universe isn't filled with stronger-than-Freeza goons.

So Shin was stronger than Gohan and Dabura? Gohan was presumed to be dead and Dabura was swiftly killed. Survival feats aren't an accurate representation. Case in point, Base Vegeta survived against Kid Buu and we're meant to believe he's weaker than Frieza?

[Peach]

Cell Max vs Jiren (full power)

Potential Unleashed Piccolo (not Orange) vs GoD Toppo

Beast Gohan vs Beerus

Cell. I view Cell Max and Beast Gohan as stronger than Jiren.

Piccolo, with some difficulty

This could go either way. I view Cell Max as having the DNA of both Beerus and Broly, since he has the purple color and the berserker personality. Feat wise, Cell Max seems to have done more than Broly and Beerus with that energy ball that was seen instantly from outer space. If we view that line of "the potential to become the strongest person on Earth" as literally, then Gohan is stronger than anyone. If Beerus really is around the strength of Broly, like Goku suggested at the end of the Broly movie, then Gohan is stronger. At the same time, we may not have seen the full strength of Beerus.

[Koitsukai]

So Shin was stronger than Gohan and Dabura? Gohan was presumed to be dead and Dabura was swiftly killed. Survival feats aren't an accurate representation. Case in point, Base Vegeta survived against Kid Buu and we're meant to believe he's weaker than Frieza?

Well, it works when comparing a shitty being like Pui Pui with no feats whatsoever and Shin, who does have a few of them, whether you like them or not, like oneshotting Freeza, you'd need to prove Pui Pui can oneshot Freeza first before sitting them at the same table. And yes, Vegeta was weaker than Freeza, Tori's word on the matter, so I won't be the one challenging the author.

Anime Z Vegetto vs Yellow-Green Piccolo from SuperHero

Anime Z Vegetto vs Super Saiyan Gohan from SuperHero

Filler Yamcha from Grand Supreme Kai Planet(when Kid Boo appeared) vs Base Kid Gohan from beginning of Android Saga

1- Orange Piccolo cracks Vegito's skull with one blow. He tanked Gamma 2 who's SSB tier. I think it might be a closer fight against FT arc Vegito.

2- Vegito wins. Gohan is quite strong but his SS is still within the normal ranges, and far from Z fusion tier.

3- I believe Yamcha takes it, it's a good chance to let go of logic and go crazy with him. He was fighting Olibu and somebody else at the same time. Paikuhan had a great fight with Olibu, so Filler Yamcha could be on base Goku's level from the android saga, or maybe the Buu saga.

[Goku9001]

So Shin was stronger than Gohan and Dabura? Gohan was presumed to be dead and Dabura was swiftly killed. Survival feats aren't an accurate representation. Case in point, Base Vegeta survived against Kid Buu and we're meant to believe he's weaker than Frieza?

Well, it works when comparing a shitty being like Pui Pui with no feats whatsoever and Shin, who does have a few of them, whether you like them or not, like oneshotting Freeza, you'd need to prove Pui Pui can oneshot Freeza first before sitting them at the same table. And yes, Vegeta was weaker than Freeza, Tori's word on the matter, so I won't be the one challenging the author.

The point was never to prove that Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza. The point was that your argument was intellectually dishonest because the logic is inherently flawed. The only argument you have is the one made in Battle of Gods which was made 20+ years later. The reader isn't expected to read the Z manga with that in mind. Take it as it is and is there anything that definitively proves that Pui Pui is weaker than Frieza beyond being "featless"?

[Koitsukai]

So Shin was stronger than Gohan and Dabura? Gohan was presumed to be dead and Dabura was swiftly killed. Survival feats aren't an accurate representation. Case in point, Base Vegeta survived against Kid Buu and we're meant to believe he's weaker than Frieza?

Well, it works when comparing a shitty being like Pui Pui with no feats whatsoever and Shin, who does have a few of them, whether you like them or not, like oneshotting Freeza, you'd need to prove Pui Pui can oneshot Freeza first before sitting them at the same table. And yes, Vegeta was weaker than Freeza, Tori's word on the matter, so I won't be the one challenging the author.

The point was never to prove that Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza. The point was that your argument was intellectually dishonest because the logic is inherently flawed. The only argument you have is the one made in Battle of Gods which was made 20+ years later. The reader isn't expected to read the Z manga with that in mind. Take it as it is and is there anything that definitively proves that Pui Pui is weaker than Frieza beyond being "featless"?

Where's the dishonesty? Shin has proven to be much more durable against stronger fighters than a guy that couldn't even take a non-serious base Vegeta's blast. Those are facts.
And talk about dishonesty, the story or the fans do not need to prove a new goon like Pui Pui is weaker than the former ruler of the universe. That's a given until proven otherwise, you don't prove your innocence. Proof of Pui Pui > Freeza is yet to be seen, I'll sit and wait for it, though.

[ZombieVito]

Anime Z Vegetto vs Yellow-Green Piccolo from SuperHero

Anime Z Vegetto vs Super Saiyan Gohan from SuperHero

Filler Yamcha from Grand Supreme Kai Planet(when Kid Boo appeared) vs Base Kid Gohan from beginning of Android Saga

Vegetto loses both fights. Even with SS3.

Yamaha might take it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell Max vs Jiren (full power)

Potential Unleashed Piccolo (not Orange) vs GoD Toppo

Beast Gohan vs Beerus

Jiren can’t maintain his full power for long, so unless he goes for the head he’s losing. Even if he does it’s not guaranteed he could pull it off, the Dragon Team went through hell just to slightly crack it.

Toppo. Ultimate Piccolo is more like, normal SSJB level. Toppo might even give Orange Piccolo some trouble.

Beerus.

Anime Z Vegetto vs Yellow-Green Piccolo from SuperHero

Anime Z Vegetto vs Super Saiyan Gohan from SuperHero

Filler Yamcha from Grand Supreme Kai Planet(when Kid Boo appeared) vs Base Kid Gohan from beginning of Android Saga

Well anime denotes we’re going to take his universal (or is it macroversal?) feat of stopping Gohan-Boo’s vice shout, and I’m assuming we’re taking SH as from the manga/movie continuity otherwise they’d obviously scale above Vegetto. I don’t remember the movies ever scaling up to universal power, AT keeps things very controlled. Vegetto will win both of his fights here.

Yamcha is more or less on Gohan’s level… Post Rosat, Cell Games Gohan, that is. I wouldn’t say Olibu is SSJ2 level like some do, but he’s definitely CG Base level. Androids Saga Gohan isn’t standing a chance.

[Goku9001]

Where's the dishonesty? Shin has proven to be much more durable against stronger fighters than a guy that couldn't even take a non-serious base Vegeta's blast. Those are facts.
And talk about dishonesty, the story or the fans do not need to prove a new goon like Pui Pui is weaker than the former ruler of the universe. That's a given until proven otherwise, you don't prove your innocence. Proof of Pui Pui > Freeza is yet to be seen, I'll sit and wait for it, though.

Not when survival feats are not representative of a fighter's battle power. Majin Vegeta would have died to Fat Buu had Goten and Trunks not intervened. Dabura was swiftly killed by Fat Buu and Gohan was presumed to be dead and Kaioshin admits to being much weaker than both of them. In fact, Base Vegeta survives against a stronger version of Buu i.e Kid Buu despite being far below Gohan, Dabura, Majin Vegeta, and Kaioshin (according to many).

The only thing your argument proves is that Pui Pui is an irrelevant battle power for the Buu Saga. Kaioshin already knows about Frieza and yet Kaioshin is afraid of Babidi's fighters in general because Babidi collects the strongest in the universe. The narrative doesn't necessarily hint at Pui Pui being as weak as you claim outside of a statement made 20+ years later.

An interesting question to ponder though. Do you think Pui Pui was handled similarly to Panput was back in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai? It kind of seems like it and I wouldn't necessarily say Panput was a weak fighter relative to 21st TB fighters.

[Peach]

How would the Cell Max fight have gone if Android 17 and Gottenks (SSJ3) were there?

[TobyS]

How would the Cell Max fight have gone if Android 17 and Gottenks (SSJ3) were there?

The same but easier, both are weaker than Gohan and Piccolo. Everyone's hits could hurt him after the cracked head, but he still needed a Gohan beast level attack to finish off.

[ZombieVito]

How would the Cell Max fight have gone if Android 17 and Gottenks (SSJ3) were there?

The same. 17 is weaker than Gamma 1 so he would be defeated as easily as Gamma 1 was. SS3 Gotenks might be stronger than base level now that the kids are teens, who knows. In any case they are still fodder.

No one besides Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan can stand up to Cell Max.

[MrGohanks]

Awakened Jiren & Full Power Broly vs Cell Max

Base Goku (End of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (ToP arc)

Base Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSJR Goku Black in his prime & Spirit Sword Trunks

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa (no tail)

[ZombieVito]

Awakened Jiren & Full Power Broly vs Cell Max

Base Goku (End of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (ToP arc)

Base Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSJR Goku Black in his prime & Spirit Sword Trunks

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa (no tail)

1) The team wins. Toriyama said that Broly couldn't beat Cell Max but here, he has Jiren. They should pull the win after a very hard fight.
2) Goku powers down to Super Saiyan and finger flicks his future self.
3) Cabba powers down to Super Saiyan and finger flicks his master.
4) Goku Black is enough to beat him after a long and hard fight.
5) Nappa. Goku would technically be stronger but not by much and will have the strain of the Kaioken against him + Nappa's endurance.

[Berserker1921]

Awakened Jiren & Full Power Broly vs Cell Max

Base Goku (End of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (ToP arc)

Base Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSJR Goku Black in his prime & Spirit Sword Trunks

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa (no tail)

1. Jiren and Broly slaughter. Cell max, in the movie was said to have been incomplete. Only when he was complete could he defeat broly. The two warriors win with low difficulty.

2. I think God from Top takes it.

3. Vegeta wins, unlike the battle above. Vegeta is going against lesser Saiyans with weaker forms. He wins with mid difficulty.

4. I think Gohan wins with high difficulty. However, that said it can go either way. I think gohan is comparable to a stronger ssjb now in that form. Black and trunks would be compared to lesser ssjbs. Black’s growth and trunks sword hax could give them a victory. 50/50.

5. Doesn’t goku have like 400-600 then? So he would get a 4000 to 6000 power level? Either way, he is more or less comparable to Nappa. He wins either way. Just former, he will have a difficult time. The latter, he wins with mid difficulty.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How would the Cell Max fight have gone if Android 17 and Gottenks (SSJ3) were there?

They would definitely be a great help. 17 is just behind the Gammas and if Fat Gotenks cracked Cell’s dome then SSJ3 Gotenks is going to help a lot. Gamma 2 might have survived if they tagged along.

Awakened Jiren & Full Power Broly vs Cell Max

Base Goku (End of Granolah arc) vs SSG Goku (ToP arc)

Base Vegeta (End of Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla & SSJ2 Cabba

Ultimate Gohan (Superhero) vs SSJR Goku Black in his prime & Spirit Sword Trunks

Kaioken x10 Goku (Start of Z) vs Nappa (no tail)

Jiren and Broly don’t look competent team players, but Cell’s lead over them is so small I can’t see them not taking it.

Granted Goku and Vegeta have improved a lot, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near 50x. Maybe End of Granola Saga could beat Cabba and Caulifla though, UE really bumped his power.

Gohan, easily. Black became trash next to SSJBs in his own saga.

If Nappa was expected to beat 8k, then 4k Goku with strain is nothing. I don’t think the lack of tail is offering anything other than mild balance issues.

[SupremeKai25]

Gohan, easily. Black became trash next to SSJBs in his own saga.

Were we watching the same saga? The one where Black in his prime was effortlessly toying with 2 SSB Saiyans without even having to move one finger?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan, easily. Black became trash next to SSJBs in his own saga.

Were we watching the same saga? The one where Black in his prime was effortlessly toying with 2 SSB Saiyans without even having to move one finger?

Yep, the same saga that had Black merge with Zamasu and call himself weak after losing two beam struggles and half his face.