The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu May 05, 2022 5:10 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:12 pm SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance)

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken)

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
1) That would be a 300M power level Goku. The android arc SS probably are around 200 and 300 M. The androids are much stronger, maybe around 400-500M. Cell is weaker than the androids, as shown against Kamiccolo. I guess Cell is closer to the androids' 400 than to the SS's 300. I think Cell wins this one, but not easily.

2) 17 said he used only half his power, so probably SS2 Future Gohan would not be enough to beat Future 17. We now Present 17 is stronger and Kamiccolo is dead even with him. So, Gohan would lose.

3) Goku one shots, sorta. Not as easily as it was for Vegeta against Pui Pui, but not even as much trouble as against Yakon. Nothing implies Tenshinhan is even relevant by then, the narrative doesn't need him to be relevant either, so...

4) Gohan goes to prison, willingly. He is ostracized by his friends, and only Piccolo and Goten visit him. Gohan killed him so bad that not even Shenron could bring Roshi back.

5) The boost must be similar to UI's. We know on top of SSB, the boost probably is like SS2 or even higher. A conservative guess would have UE over 200x stronger than SSB.
SSB is 10x than SSG, which probably is 10 or 20x stronger than SS3(Broly was fighting a SS Vegeta that can challenge SS3 Goku, and with his ikari form he forced him to use SSG).
So 4,000x with SSG, 40,000 with SSB. Vegeta has SSBE, so maybe that's a 50,000x.
And UE is around 200x stronger than that. With a base level of 18,000, that would put Vegeta closing in on 1 billion. That's probably where Super Vegeta, Super Trunks, 2nd form Cell or Initial Perfect Cell are at.
Keeping in mind he can take damage and grow even stronger, I'd say he would peak around Perfect Cell's FP. The one that Gohan easily oneshot. SS2 Gohan might play Gas' part.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri May 06, 2022 6:38 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:12 pm SSJ2 Goku (End of Namek arc) vs Imperfect Cell (first appearance)

SSJ2 Future Gohan vs Kamicollo

Tien (BoG) vs Base Goku (Buu saga, no Kaioken)

Roshi (ToP anime) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)

If Saiyan saga Vegeta had access to Ultra Ego, who do you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
I have Goku just a step above Cell. It’s gonna be close, and how the fight ends depends on whether or not Goku is aware of Cell’s abilities.

I think Gohan wins, but only because I’m leaning towards SSJ2 giving more than a 2x boost right now. The power gap is similar to the one above, but I think Gohan will have the skill to compensate his missing arm given how confident he was against the Androids.

Roshi gotta go with the Mafuuba here, otherwise he’s toast.

Tien shouldn’t be any trouble to Goku at this point. Up until the ToP I think he maxes out at his Cell Games power (2nd form Freeza level) given how he never closed the gap between himself and Kuririn.

The initial power up Ultra Ego gives doesn’t seem to be nearly as big as the other god forms sincs SSJBE Vegeta was already swapping hands with Granolah, and UE couldn’t one shot him. Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s body might end up breaking down at old Saiyan limits, the 60k mark according to Ginyu, so the Captain will one shot him if Vegeta doesn’t puke his organs out.
Koitsukai wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 5:10 pm 4) Gohan goes to prison, willingly. He is ostracized by his friends, and only Piccolo and Goten visit him. Gohan killed him so bad that not even Shenron could bring Roshi back.
Lmao I love this. But as I’ve heard someone say once, Roshi says he’s firing “The strongest Kamehameha” at Ganos, so he’s above KKx10 SSJB Goku from the U6 Saga :lol:

On the Ultra Ego multiplier, I’m not sure if the initial boost is that powerful since the point of the form is to continue growing stronger. When Vegeta was fighting Granolah as a SSJBE, Goku noted his power was getting stronger and he was even holding his own. Can’t remember if this was because of Granolah’s inexperience, but it seems like he was using UE’s principles even before transforming and slowly closing the gap between himself and Granny.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat May 07, 2022 2:12 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:38 pm
On the Ultra Ego multiplier, I’m not sure if the initial boost is that powerful since the point of the form is to continue growing stronger. When Vegeta was fighting Granolah as a SSJBE, Goku noted his power was getting stronger and he was even holding his own. Can’t remember if this was because of Granolah’s inexperience, but it seems like he was using UE’s principles even before transforming and slowly closing the gap between himself and Granny.
Yeah, you are right. The technique was already in play since the fight started, he got a few power ups after taking some damage, slowly closing the gap, and after taking one to the stomach, he unlocked UE and turned the tables. It's quite difficult to give it a multiplier, I guess from blue hair to purple hair there's like a 2x boost at least, but impossible to know how much stronger since arriving on Cereal-sei(before even taking one hit) and turning purple.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm

1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Mon May 09, 2022 5:21 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm 1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
Fans seem to think that Pui Pui is saiyan saga vegeta level and Yakon is Freeza level he also has those arm blades.

1. Final form without Goku? It really depends on Yakon and we don't know for sure.
2. The team takes it.
3. Yakon slices them up unless Ginyu body switches.
4. Pui Pui is saiyan saga vegeta imo so he thrashes.
5. Hmm they can fly fast I think they are above 21st level. Perhaps 23rd TB level. At least 22nd. Kuririn goes down.
6. I think you would need all three to have a chance, otherwise Gohan wrecks unless Dabra can land a stone spit on the centre of the mass.
7. They are trash, Granolas feat against the 7'3s is an outlier more to do with his eyepatch and the vagueness as to whether og 73 got stronger than the factory line ones. Dabra slaughters spit is op too.
8. If Granola is stronger then Freeza after Freeza was gone I dont think he made it past 17 without any goalpost to train towards anymore, or just at that growth rate. Throw in 18 too and it's too much.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Thani » Mon May 09, 2022 6:38 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm 1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
1. I think Freeza should take this... But it wouldn't be easy. As strong as he is, the opposition is quite large. If they attack together and with coordination, they should land lots of blows on Freeza.

2. Same as above, Freeza would win, but it wouldn't be easy because of the tag team.

3. The Ginyus, all together, should be able to hold their own against Yakon.

4. Pui Pui was a fighter used to the same gravity as planet Vegeta, so with the majin seal he should be considerably stronger too. I think he might even be on the level of the Ginyus, honestly.

5. Krilin would have trouble with them, but he could win.

6. Gohan took down Cell with like, one or two hits. It wasn't as serious a blow like the anime tried to sell though, but it was enough to deal considerable damage. Still, the difference between Dabura and SS2 Gohan (Cell Games) was less then between Dabura and Fat Buu, so the duo actually has a better chance here. If they team up correctly, they could hold their own somewhat I think. Bojack would be a good addition, but he would still fall easily to Gohan anyway if the team isn't careful.

7 and 8. Granolah showed nothing to suggest he's close to Freeza's 100% power from Namek. And as far as he knew, Freeza only had one form, that clocked on 530k. If he was absolutely confident on taking him down (and it's not his suicidal tendencies speaking louder than reason), than Granny was at best at that level... But considering he, what, lost easily to Oil and Macki? I doubt even that. Gas should at least be on the 1mi power level scale, going by hype and all. By all accounts, they should lose all their match-ups.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon May 09, 2022 7:03 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm 1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
1-4 are all massive overkills from Babidi’s minions. He recruited these guys to defend him from Kaioshin and whoever would come with him. Babidi considers Shin such a non factor that he even tells Pui and Yakon to ignore him altogether. Pui Pui alone could breeze all these guys away.

Now the Ginyu Force one is interesting. You had Gurdo and Ginyu’s abilities in mind here, didn’t you? Ginyu’s body change goes straight to the mouth, so either Yakon will eat Ginyu’s soul or the body change will work. Not sure, but since Gurd can freeze time anyway I think the Ginyus win if working together.

5) I dare to say either one solos. They’re beyond human limits, and 21TB fighters are still within these limits given how Pamputto (who shows power similar to 21TB Goku) is treated. Also I have them on Saiyan Saga Z Fighter levels.

6) I have Gohan (FP/Rage) >> Gohan ~ SPC ~ Dabra > FP Cell ~ Bojack. It all depends on Gohan’s mindset, really: Not only he needs to be at his peak to pull it off, he also needs to be serious. Cell and Bojack could easily distract Gohan for Dabra to spit on him.

7) Just send in Pui Pui and he’ll send these two back to Elec in a box.

8.) Really? I didn’t know about that line, but it doesn’t sound so strange to me. I always placed Granolah at BoZ Goku level to mirror their individual progresses though. Even if that line is not just Granolah being suicidal (has he ever even met Freeza?), I don’t see any reason he’d be above 1st form Freeza. Even 19 could just sit on him and suffocate him to death, let alone 17 and/or 18.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon May 09, 2022 7:39 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm 1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
1) Yakon would force Freeza to use 100% so the team might get a win if they tire Freeza out.
2) Yakon beats Freeza if the latter can't use 100% of his power.
3) I guess Ginyu can trade bodies with him once he sees Yakon eat his teammates.
4) Pui Pui finger flicks them both in a second.
5) I actually have all 3 around the same power. Krillin (And Yamcha) loses because of Yamu and Spopovich's inhuman endurance.
6) The only way Gohan loses is if Dabura can turn him into stone. Otherwise Gohan will beat them with a few hits.
7/8) I have absolutely no idea how strong is Granola pre wish. I'll care when/if they animate the arc.
Last edited by ZombieVito on Mon May 09, 2022 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon May 09, 2022 7:40 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 2:17 pm 1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?

2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%).
Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all?

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation).
He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin
(Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
1) Vegeta, Piccolo, Krilin, Gohan(all from the Namek arc), Majin Yakon and Majin Pui Pui vs Namek Freeza.
Can Yakon and Pui Pui tilt the scale or something?
: Some debate as to whether the Majin roster of Babidi's forces had their potential unlocked. I don't see why he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of having them undergo that process if he's intending for them to fight for him though the lack of visual cues of the Majinisation unlock with the varicose like veins across the body is a good point to make.

My own opinion is that this reinforced ensemble of fighters still wouldn't be enough to defeat Freeza unless perhaps the battle took place on Yakon's home planet and he capitalised on their opponent's lack of ability to sense ki and inflict a fatal blow. If that doesn't happen then I see the group ultimately losing with Yakon being the last to fall as Freeza resorts to 50% of his total power in order to clench victory.


2) Namek Goku (no SS) and Yakon vs Namek Freeza (no 100%). Can Majin Yakon help Goku at all? : A similar situation as the first match up. I don't personally think Yakon is going to allow for Goku to make much headway unless the battle took place on his home planet. It's possible, and I'm only stating my thoughts here, Yakon may have a numbered power level anywhere between ten to twenty million. It's not going to be enough once Freeza resorts to 50% of his strength.

3) Yakon vs the Ginyu Force.: Oh Yakon easily. Ginyu would need to turn the match on its face by changing bodies for the monster to be brought down.

4) Majin Pui Pui vs Raditz and Nappa (Saiyan arc - no great ape transformation). He fights Raditz, recovers and then fights Nappa.: A lot of speculation on whether Pui Pui is a mirror of Saiyan arc Vegeta or not. My personal thoughts are that he's considerably stronger than some like to give him credit for. Whether he was one-sidedly decimated or not while fighting base Vegeta, he was recovering from attacks somewhat and his opponent did go to the trouble of using a dual variant of his signature move to kill him. I believe Pui Pui could have measured anywhere from the hundreds of thousands to low millions numerically.

In this specific battle the Saiyans would have no chance.

5) Spopovich and Yamu vs 21st TB Krilin (Yamcha can Z assist if things get too heavy).: Another hard to assess character set. We know little of Spopovich and Yamu's strength except that the former restrained himself against Videl, could utilise kiais, and that both of them were able to traverse the planet at impressive speeds with auras being emitted. When taking those characteristics into account I suppose my verdict would be that the Majin pair win regardless of Yamcha's intervention.

6) Dabura and FP Perfect Cell vs Cell Games SS2 Gohan (no playing around).
-- Can Gohan take Super Bojack too or is it too much?
: A match up like this hearkens back to the age old discussion on which variant of Cell Dabura stacks up to. I take the opinion that that he may have been positioned somewhere between Perfect and Super Perfect Cell. Is it enough to turn the tides? Ordinarily no though with this iteration of Cell and the possible interference of Bojack he may be able to blindside Gohan using his Stone Spit ability. If that doesn't work then perhaps Cell can force a draw by self-destructing and killing everyone.

7) Granola and Gas (pre-wish) vs Dabura.
-- if it's too easy, can they take Dabura and Perfect Cell?
: Didn't Granolah contend with a group of the OG soldier androids who were confirmed to have recorded the battle data gained from Seven-Three? At his most powerful the android had the strength and abilities of Gohan at his disposal. How does that reflect on the androids Granolah engaged? If you want to discount that then Seven-Three still was able to surprise Piccolo in order to copy his power. I believe Granolah and Gas can easily win this battle thanks to power inflation.

8 ) Granola (pre-wish) vs Android 17 and 18 (from Z)
Granny said he could take Namek Freeza, but what about the androids from back in the day?
: Granolah would have an easier time here based on his performance against the OG soldiers stated to have the power equivalent to Seven-Three.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm

Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 10, 2022 2:56 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)
1) 1 billion anything it's a lot, but Vegito shouldn't need more than a focused ki blast to deal with them.

2) They are outnumbered, they are not as strong as SS2 Gohan, so they die horribly. Even with the mafuba, at best they could trap one.

3) Freeza is still a threat to our boys in blue, even post ToP. He must be up there with them, and they have vastly surpassed Black during the ToP. Hardly a problem for Freeza, he has that tornado laser beam to dispose of the mist clones. Although, the fact that he is trashing a Goku might make him lose the fight, drop his guard, boast, etc. He was miles ahead of Goku in Namek, yet he let the fight last long enough to lose it.

4) That Kefla is above SSB, probably on the KK10 or 20 realm. Zamasu is SSB level, so he cannot beat somebody that might be 10 or 20x stronger. Even if the SSB level in question is the same for anime and manga. Kefla is at least 10x stronger. Zamasu dies.

5) Good one. I guess the power inflation comes into play here. SSB Goku was fighting Jiren better than with KKx20, so there was at least a big growth going on there. I'd say Vegito still takes it, but it's much closer than expected. With KK, Gogeta wins.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 10, 2022 4:14 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)
Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen: The Saibamen have no chance here against the likes of Vegetto. If it wasn't for the Broly movie's portrayal of the negligible reaction of these characters when exposed to magma I might have proposed that the Saibamen's corrosive acid projectile could work against the fused Saiyan but alas that isn't to be.

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs: I guess looking back over the interview with Ryota Nakamura the acknowledgement of Goten and Trunks being more sufficient for providing strength than the humans connotes to them being inferior to whatever standard the kids are at in the anime; this in spite of the optics of Krillin and Roshi successfully battling Goku with some degree of success. Don't like to admit it personally but I suppose the Cell Jrs win here.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly): I can only see Black having the chance to win here if Freeza were naive enough to only engage the clones. Since he isn't like that it's inevitable that he'll attack his opponent and easily win the battle.

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality): Wasn't it noted by Vados that Kefla's victory against blue Goku would have been uncertain if he had his full stamina available or something to that effect? The Goku from the Tournament of Power is a different being when measured using the comparative placeholder of Hit and how Goku has gone from needing blue amplified by Kaioken x10 to just regular blue to now only the red form for boasting what appears to be parity with the assassin in the anime. Kefla in her SSJ1 form may have been superior to that red form at full strength though blue isn't completely set in stone, in my opinion.

By comparison Merged Zamasu was equally matched against mastered SSJB. To his credit he does possess some interesting abilities like transportational melee attacks through rifts in space, telekinesis, asphyxiation inducing biokinesis, and the ability to materialise Katchin alloy projectiles.

I think if Zamasu is able to telekinetically hinder Kefla and if she's unable to escape then the Shinjin may win. Otherwise Kefla could have the advantage as she's at least a peer of the fully powered SSJB from the Tournament of Power.

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime): Difficult to get a full assessment on the progress of Goku and Vegeta between the Tournament of Power and the Broly film. Broly himself is an ever shifting goalpost so we can't really use him except for being the most powerful opponent the Saiyan duo had faced but presumably that's in reference to the LSSJ condition.

I might go with SSJ Vegetto if only because my initial impression is that the Saiyans from the Broly era haven't progressed enough to where their untransformed states can be deemed superior to their SSJ forms from the Black arc; this would naturally translate over to their merged counterparts as well.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue May 10, 2022 4:20 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)
Vegetto. He’s so strong the numbers don’t even matter m, and even if they did he’s over a billion times stronger than the Saibamen anyway.

The Cell Jrs kill them horribly. They can just maybe handle 1 or 2 at best.

Freeza one shots. He’s stronger than Broly movie SSJBs going by his fight with Broly, and even in the Black Saga the SSJBs could give Halo Merged Zamasu trouble.

Kefla stomps. Aside from anime having better feats overall, Kefla was way above SSJB Goku.

That’s a tough one. I don’t think Broly Goku or Vegeta are anywhere near Vegetto, but Gogeta is a different talk. Giving it to Gogeta based on ne having SSJ fusions be a 2x multiplier.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue May 10, 2022 5:04 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)
Maybe if the Saibaimen fuse they could beat Vegetto. Otherwise they die in seconds.
1 Cell Junior is enough to beat them.
I actually have them on par. Freeza has better endurance and a slight power advantage but Black can adapt and use his clones. Black wins this.
Kefla finger flicks. Manga Fused Zamasu is comparable with a SSB from the anime.
Vegetto powers down to base, uses regular Kaioken and one shots Gogeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Thani » Tue May 10, 2022 9:46 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 1:51 pm Buu saga Vegito vs 1 billion Saibamen

Roshi, Krillin and Tien (ToP anime, no mafuba) vs all 7 Cell Jrs.

SSJR Goku Black (scythe) vs Golden Freeza (DBS Broly)

SSJ1 Kefla (ToP anime) vs Merged Zamasu (manga, no immortality)

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Black arc anime)
1. If the 1 billion saibamen explode on Vegito... It should also not be enough to harm him. He takes this.

2. Cell Jrs wins handily.

3. Tough one. I guess they would be pretty even against each other, but Freeza could have a power advantage. Maybe Black can outlast Freeza? Would be fun to see nonetheless.

4. Even in the manga, Kefla is at least as strong as Merged Zamasu or really close to him. Kefla from the anime is stronger than even KKSSB Goku at full power, so she wins this.

5. They should actually be close to each other in base, so a SSj Vegito against a base Gogeta is just a mismatch. Gogeta would have a good practical experience against a much stronger opponent though!

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MrGohanks » Thu May 12, 2022 1:19 pm

Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc)

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime)

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu May 12, 2022 4:16 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:19 pm Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc)

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime)

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?
1) 17 was completely outmatched by Toppo. Base Gogeta should be at least as strong as Toppo, and 17, without Gohan as a distraction should lose.

2) I have no reason to believe Krilin has gotten that strong by training with Roshi for 3 years. Freeza should put his horns inside him again.

3) Tough one. Base Gotenks should be below the adult SS, and 7 years ago they weren't getting anywhere against just one Cell Jr. Post ROSAT, I guess they should be able to take on 7 Cell Jrs, considering Gotenks grew much stronger and did not just unlock SS3, yet his fusees didn't grow much stronger in return, so base Gotenks probably is much stronger than whatever T&G's SS was.

4) SS Vegito should be above KKx10 Goku by a big margin, but Hit's abilities have improved a lot as well. If Jiren fell into the Time Cage, so would Vegito, but I don't think he can break free from it.

5) Goku starts at 10PL. Let's say SSG is 4,000x, and SSB 40,000x. And UI might be 200x SSB (The weakest Sign was around 50x SSB). Illiterate, 10 year old, bulletproof Goku would be at 80M. He is below Freeza, but UI lets him punch above his weight, so I think he can put Freeza down.
That was with the manga SSB multiplier, if it's 50x SSG, and so that it's not too OP, we have SSG at 1,000x, then with UI he'd be around 100M. Enough to beat Freeza, even if the Emperor has more raw power.
If we keep on with the manga, and UI is maybe a lesser boost, 10x or 20x SSB, then he'd be around 8M. UI is great and all, but he'd be completely outpowered by Freeza.

Now, if we go fucking nuts, with SSG being 4,000 and SSB being 50x that. Kid SSB Goku would be as strong as Namek Goku, and with UI (say 200x on top of that) he'd be 400M. Where most people have the androids. So Android 16 and 1st form Cell would be the weakest guys to put him down.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu May 12, 2022 8:05 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:19 pm Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc)

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime)

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?
Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime): #17 in the anime could ostensibly stand shoulder to shoulder with the blue Saiyans and Golden Freeza without being outpaced. It's impressive for a cyborg who only had a gaggle of Cell Jrs to train with while simultaneously managing an island preserve. Having said that, base Gogeta in the movie was seen avoiding all of SSJ Broly's ki projectiles without issue. Goku and Vegeta could achieve similar results but they were in their blue forms while accomplishing that feat. If there's anything that can be guaranteed it's the continual growth of those two as they train persistently. I see Gogeta winning this unless the progress of the Saiyans between the TOP and Broly film were so minimal that #17 is able to compensate for a moderate power discrepancy with his infinite stamina.

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc) : I believe Krillin would have what it takes to bring down the initial output of strength Freeza used while fighting Goku. A weaker iteration should pose no issue here unless the tyrant were to resort to destroying the planet they're fighting on.

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's: The match up makes me hearken back to the argument of whether untransformed Gotenks after training was superior to Fat Buu or not. I choose to believe that he was based on Trunks' admittedly biased observations and Piccolo's initial confidence which while misplaced in respect to the comparability against Super Buu he must have felt was very impressive. So my impression here is that base Gotenks would easily defeat the Cell Jrs.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime): If it operates similarly to how Gogeta in the Broly film appeared on par if not somewhat greater than the Saiyan individuals in just his base state then Vegetto should be able to unleash an impressive amount of strength. I can't make the argument that it would be sufficient for defeating this iteration of Hit, though. You can discern this deescalating scale of power from Goku in his need to match Hit's strength -- in the Champa tournament it was SSJB combined with Kaioken x10, when Goku secretively hired Hit to come after him he only needed blue to fight, then in the Tournament of Power we see how Goku is able to achieve similar results as Hit using just SSJG. It correlates to a significant transitional gap between the arcs, one which I don't believe Super Saiyan from an earlier arc amplifying an blue tier fighter's power as it relates to the standards of ROF is going to be enough here. My opinion is that Hit would take this pretty easily.

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?: However much strength he gains would be nigh immeasurable in its exorbitance. Shot in the dark? Freeza from the Namek arc at least. I would be willing to project as high as Cell if we're being generous with the amplification.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu May 12, 2022 8:53 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:19 pm Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc)

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime)

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?
Base Gogeta, easily. He’s stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta from the Broly movie, and fighting in the ToP made them power up far past 17’s level.

Freeza. I have Kuririn on 2nd form Freeza’s level.

Vegetto finger-clicks. Goku and Vegeta believed they were nearing their limits, so they didn’t improve much in the Rosat.

Hm… I have no idea what MUI’s multiplier is, lol. But if SSJB + KKx20 is 4,000,000 and MUI is at least 100x that, then MUI Kid Goku is like, in the low billions. He can take out Semi Perfect Cell.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu May 12, 2022 11:54 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:19 pm Base Gogeta (DBS Broly, no Kaioken) vs Android 17 (ToP anime)

Krillin (Cell Games) vs 3rd Form Freeza (Namek arc)

Base Gotenks (Buu saga, post-Rosat) vs the 7 Cell Jr's.

SSJ1 Vegito (RoF arc) vs Hit (ToP anime)

And if Goku from the very beginning of the franchise when he met Bulma had MUI, who do you guys think is the strongest person he could beat?
1) Very close match. Gogeta has a slight power advantage but 17 has infinite stamina. Gogeta ends up losing because of the fusion time limit.
2) Krillin one shots. I have him surpassing the 3 million mark by the Android arc.
3) 1 Cell Jr finger flicks him.
4) Vegetto beats him easily. Hit's time abilities are good but not dozens of times better than him good.
5) Namek Freeza I guess.

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